PR Mod's policy on IRA vs UK maps.

[Ddonegan]

I've looked around the forum and found that the idea of an IRA vs UK map is often shot down because some of the devs were "Involved" with the whole ordeal. That's fine, and I can respect that. However, the conflict is over.... I've lost 3 family members in the war on terror, and there are maps being made that are dealing with a conflict that is still at hand. Terrorists killing Americans, The British, Germans.. etc etc. And even Hamas vs the IDF. Those guys have been fighting for a thousand years.

I realize that in posting this that it will probably being locked within a few minutes... I'd just like an answer with more reason.

No disrespect to those involved. I've had my share of losses here recently.

Sincerely,
Ddonegan

[Shovel]

Wait, what is IRA??

[Ghost Wolfe]

Irish Republican Army

[Rhino]

First of all, why on earth have you posted this topic in the off-topic forums when this is clearly a very on-topic subject for Project Reality? Moved to General Discussion, please post in the correct area next time...

As for your question, tbh I myself do not know that much about the IRA, its really more before my time and [R-DEV]Gaz would most likley be our main expert on this subject.

From what I understand thou (which could be completely wrong), is that in at least the last 10 or so years, probably even longer, there have not really been any "battles" and really only undercover terrorist activities like planting bombs and other hit and run tactics.

How can we make a map in Project Reality, which aims at bringing realistic battles, to something that didn't have any real battles?

With the wars in Afghanistan, Iraq, etc, even thou there are plenty of undercover terrorist activities, there are also many huge battles happening every day which is what we portray in Project Reality, not someone trying to put a bomb on a plane or something along thous lines.

So for a start, crating the IRA from a gameplay point of view is not feasible.


Now if that isn't enough for you, then there is a lot more reason on top of that why we haven't made any IRA maps.

The first obviously that we would have to make European maps, which if you look around the PR or vBF2 files, you will find very little in the way of statics that we can pass off as European, epically not statics that belong in Ireland or the UK... Mappers would be basically starting from scratch with the need of crating many new statics and that is a huge amount of work which tbh, we don't have the man power for since now I'm the only active member of the team who has any real experience of making static objects for BF2, and I'm up to my neck in work.


Next is that the main IRA conflict is long gone, what you hear in the US is most likley far from the truth as I'm sure [R-DEV]Gaz will fill you in later on this. But with keeping in mind that the main part of the conflict was a long, long time ago, much of the British Army kit has changed drastically, epically over the last few years. Much of the equipment we have in PR is far to futuristic for an IRA battle and as such, we would have to make new models of old kit...



So to quickly summaries, from a gameplay POV, its not feasible, we would have to make a huge new range of static objects and maps and to top it all off, we would have to make lots of new models to represent old British Army kit.

So as you can see, its not about any moral issues as to why we haven't done it, I can tell you now that many of our Military advisor know many people who have been killed and wounded in Afghanistan and Iraq, there sacrifice if anything only inspires us to do what we do to make sure they are not forgotten.


Now if you believe its still worth making the IRA for PR, your more than welcome to give it a shot yourself.
Here is all you need to know about making maps: https://www.realitymod.com/forum/f189-m ... rs-up.html
Here is most of what you need to know about making staticobjects: https://www.realitymod.com/forum/f189-m ... cture.html
And as for modelling new weapons/vehicles and other bits of kit, I'm sure you could find some willing community members to do it....

Have fun!

[Ddonegan]

Rhino;1547372']


Now if you believe its still worth making the IRA for PR, your more than welcome to give it a shot yourself.
Here is all you need to know about making maps: https://www.realitymod.com/forum/f189-m ... rs-up.html
Here is most of what you need to know about making staticobjects: https://www.realitymod.com/forum/f189-m ... cture.html
And as for modelling new weapons/vehicles and other bits of kit, I'm sure you could find some willing community members to do it....

Have fun!

Didn't expect to get a smart alec answer, but Ok. I was leaning more towards the splinter groups being involved.. (CIRA, RIRA, etc.) Which still operate today. I'll wait till Gaz shows up. I'm sure he has more info on the subject, and less of an attitude.


EDIT: Not saying your intentions were to be smart alec like. Just came off that way... Before i get jumped.. Haha.

[Thermis]

Gaz will of course have to give his say in this as he's got the most experience.

I know a little about the conflict as part my family is from the Republic. The conflict in Northern Ireland can be defined as an insurgency, but it is very hard to compare it to that of Iraq. Which I'm guessing you were thinking that the main focus of the maps that would accompany this faction would be Insurgency based.

Can you name any battles fought in the Northern Ireland conflict? The only one I can think of is The Battle of Bogside which is a glorified riot. In Iraq you have The Battle for Faluja, The second Battle of Baghdad, First and second battles of Najaf, Battle of Karbala, Battle of Basara. All of which were major engagements between coalition forces and organized and armed insurgent forces.

The fighting in Northern Ireland can be describe from a military stand point as raids and skirmishes. Which you have to ask yourself, is that something you think a lot of people would really like to play as a video game?

This would also require a rework of the British faction to be realistic. As the British forces that fought in the conflict were much different the the modern British forces you have in PR today.

Your argument that we shot this down because some Devs where involved isn't well founded. More of the team has been involved in the Iraq and Afghanistan wars, and that is the primary basis of the mod.

So if you have a realistic argument for adding a IRA v UK map as to why it would be fun for people to play, and how it could add new dimensions other than a new map to play on and weapons and how we could make it realistically portray the conflict the lets hear it.

Until then I'm locking this. PM me with your new argument and I'll reopen it.

[Gaz]

Been pointed towards this thread to provide my opinion on the matter. Ddonegan, this is the 2nd thread you've created concerning this suggestion.

On the whole, Rhino and Thermis already covered all the main points. The IRA were only a very small proportion of the population of Northern Ireland and were only a part of the Troubles. There were/are umpteen other Republican as well as umpteen Loyalist terrorist groups. The Troubles died down with the signing of the Good Friday Agreement, although it took a number of years for the main groups to disband.

There have of course been a number of ongoing or new paramilitary groups stuck in the past and wanting to carry on 'the struggle', but Op Banner ended a number of years ago and there is no specific order where British Army personnel are on the streets of Northern Ireland. Only the usual garrison and satellite locations (as standard around the UK). There is still a real and ongoing threat from terrorism against service and law enforcement personnel in NI at this time, but not something I'm going to cover here.

The main thing is that the British Army was a different beast in NI as it was in the first and second Gulf wars and Afghanistan. Not to mention you'd be looking to aim NI maps at a 1990s UK faction, not a 2011 faction as we do in PR. The majority of weapon systems we had and have were not carried openly or at all as it tended to 'look aggressive'. Walking through Belfast (which was like walking through Manchester) openly with a GPMG with 50 link was overkill for the 3 round burst then f**k off tactics that were used on patrols. Then there's the thoughts on the NI specific Rule of Engagement, which were very restrictive. Over a round, there could be 100 rounds fired by an IRA faction, and 2 rounds fired from the Brits Over 40 years we also created Internal Security tactics that are very different and specialised compared to conventional warfare, along with specialist kit for dealing with various threats. Things that have bode us well in ops for Afghan in terms of protection and moving around. But we would not be rocking around NI and never have, in WMIKs, Mastiff, Jackal or have CAS on call from fast fixed wing or rotary. Different level of warfare completely.

Rhino was not being a 'smart alec'. It's what we say to anyone who suggests a new faction or gameplay method. You just need to direct your attention to the links he provided to our large community modding section to prove that he was trying to encourage you. If you take this forward, I will take a keen interest though. Rhino's POV is something you should pay particular attention to in regards to his technical advice and what would be required. He's an accomplished and long standing mapper.

[Gaz]

Sorry for bumping this, but it might explain a few things as things stand. Or not.