Armor of MBTs

[Hunt3r]

I may not know much about the true RHAe mm values of tank armor, but within the context of this game, I think it needs some changing for realism's sake, unless we really are making tanks that can't even shrug off more than a few shots of 125mm/120mm APFSDS frontally.

Yes, the T-80, T-72, and T-90 can't take that frontally, but for the sake of balance/gameplay we're going to assume it can, unless we're radically changing the relative numbers of T-xx to heavily armored western MBTs.

No tank should ever have anything short of a Maverick penetrate and do heavy enough damage to one-shot a tank on the front turret. This is almost always the most heavily armored point of an MBT. 120/125mm APFSDS should do nothing, as would any 12xmm fired round. Only maybe a TOW, and it would have to take 4-5 rounds to accomplish that.

Front Glacis should take 4-5 12xmm APFSDS to do the job. Same number of gun-launched ATGMs to do the same. Very heavy (120mm diameter+) ATGMs should take about 2. So TOWs, Hellfires, Mavericks, and other large ATGMs should kill quick.

Side of turret and hull should take out a tank with 2 sub 120mm ATGMs, 1 TOW or equivalent ATGM, or 2 12x APFSDS. Only 35mm+ APFSDS should even have a chance of doing any damage.

Rear should let all 25mm APFSDS and above rounds penetrate and do damage. Autocannon APFSDS should take around 30-40 rounds to achieve a kill. All 12xmm APFSDS should do one hit kills, as with any ATGM.

Top of turret should only take 5-10 autocannon APFSDS to kill the tank, 1 bomb, ATGM, 12xmm APFSDS, 3 RPGs, 1 C4, unlimited pipebombs, 1 Arty IED, 1 direct arty round, unlimited mortar rounds, unlimited grenades, unlimited thermite, and small arms.

OPTICS DO NOT COUNT. Optics(and other odds and ends stuck onto the top of turrets that are not "critical hits" in reality), until proper damage modeling of optic hits are modeled, should pretty much take 3 12xmm APFSDS or so, 2 ATGMs (1 Heavy ATGM), and 50-60 autocannon APFSDS to accomplish anything.

Currently MBTs are easily destroyed when in reality they are very much forces to be reckoned with. Even a penetrating hit takes maybe a follow-up or two to really kill a tank.

[Acemantura]

So what exactly are you trying to accomplish here Hunter?

[Hunt3r]

Make MBTs more survivable, because right now with the extremely heavy ATGM and general AT threat level in this game at least giving modern western MBTs the protection and survivability they deserve is honestly not that big a deal.

If one wants to be realistic every shot that penetrates the hull of T-xx series would basically either be a full kill of personnel inside or just a catastrophic explosion of the ammo.

[Dev1200]

APCs and Tanks need a higher survivability. Right now they are a waste to use.

Btw, if you want to talk realism, take 5-10 modern battle tanks, and fire 120-125mm rounds at them. Tell me how many it takes to destroy the tank, each front, side and rear.

[Hunt3r]

APCs and Tanks need a higher survivability. Right now they are a waste to use.

Btw, if you want to talk realism, take 5-10 modern battle tanks, and fire 120-125mm rounds at them. Tell me how many it takes to destroy the tank, each front, side and rear.

Highly dependent and I was basically doing approximations. Within the context of PR 2-3 sabots should be all it takes if they are penetrating hits. First penetration usually will either by sheer luck do nothing, or just take out some parts, second will pretty much render it combat ineffective, third will require shipping it out. But sometimes, one shot can be catastrophic.

Yes, I know that PR devs find the concept of using a simulator for a model to be anathema, but in my experiences with getting shot at in SB Pro PE, 3 penetrating hits will almost certainly ensure that the entire vehicle is destroyed.

If you really want to just be really cruel about it, any penetrating hit by tank level or greater munitions will just be instagib, but that would basically be ignoring spall liners, blow-out panels, and general luck.

IFVs should be able to take a lot more punishment from 30mm APDS, MBTs should be able eat a lot more 120mm frontally, and both should be pretty well protected from any artillery that doesn't directly impact on the vehicle.

[=LK= A.H.]

As if it's not difficult enough to take out tanks as infantry right now.

[Psyko]

i think your all nuts. the tanks and apcs are fine. the problem is and always will be the problem that it has always been...poor judgement and bad tactics. i dont even...

[ninja]

Since its impossible to code into the game penetration, hit of amo etc blablabla i think just leave the system as it is.

Tanks are quite a hard one to take out in the game if used right but if the tanks are just used as stationary gun battery or wtfrushinfirsttrolollololol than i dont feel sorry that they get shot down by one hat.
But most of the time i see tanks only taken out by stationary TOW or Gunships. And with enough intell and thinking the first one is easy avoided.

EDIT: Btw arent there already enough of this topics?

[Hotrod525]

its hard to tell there is just too many factor... even more irl, depend of the armor, the ammunition use, the weather, the atmospheric pressure, the distance, the wind, the KE of the penetrator when he hit the hull, where it hit...etc...

HUNTER, btw,just a few IFV can sustain 20mm or more... most of them will almost be shred by 12.7mm, and just a few tanks had been combat proven resisting a 120mm SABOT hit, and even then, its more like 90% luck, 10% armor. A combat loaded vehicle is extremely dangerous for those who serve in it. Fuel, Ammo, Spall...etc.

[Jigsaw]

This is a suggestion, a suggestion that;

• Is outside of the suggestion forum,
• Is a re-suggestion,
• Is a suggestion for factions for which we have an active MA,
• Is lacking any sourcing whatsoever,

As such this thread is locked.