is a 3rd party mortar calculator a hack ?

[Spec]

Ah, that it was, it reads the heightmaps, not the user position.

Same thing. It knows things the player cannot know. No way I could, with only a pen & paper and a calculater, find out how high each hill on the map is. I'd always need guesswork or a spotter for that. Unless I do read the heightmaps somehow, but I'd consider that cheating too. It's looking behind the games curtains. I could as well have a friend giving me intel from the enemy team - sure it's no hack, but it's unfair.

[CallousDisregard]

So the folks that don't think it's a hack....you are OK with playing on a team that has a distinct disadvantage due to the fact the other team is using a secret 3rd party program ?


If it is allowed then I can only hope somebody else releases a similar program that is available to the public, until then I think people using it are cheaters, no different in any material way than the proverbial "script kiddie".

[Kain888]

If it is allowed then I can only hope somebody else releases a similar program that is available to the public, until then I think people using it are cheaters, no different in any material way than the proverbial "script kiddie".

It is available to the public... link is above.

[Cassius]

I am gonna put it in the cheat area. Squadleaders give you a location and ask for fire without telling you if its dead on or a correction needed as it is, now along comes a tool that removes the need for it.

On the other hand irl I guess mortar dudes would have a map with a lot more height references. Maybe they can be added in one of the upcomin updates

[CallousDisregard]

It is available to the public... link is above.

This is the system I am talking about and it is not public.
Mortar Testing Day

[Zrix]

This is the system I am talking about and it is not public.
Mortar Testing Day

Hm, then this whole thread might be derp. Since we are apparently discussing 2 separate programs without knowing it.

[Hitperson]

if you want realism then this is a step closer to it.

Artillery - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

i know its wiki but meh.

[Sniperdog]

I'll clarify a bit.

If the program draws positional data from the memory (like mumble does), then yes it is a hack. If not, then it is just a glorified calculator.

Nothing wrong with that.

[ytman]

So the folks that don't think it's a hack....you are OK with playing on a team that has a distinct disadvantage due to the fact the other team is using a secret 3rd party program ?

You are really overselling the advantage gained by using mortars well. In any case why not make your own program or find someone who would give you theirs? Intellectual property is real and all. As Sniperdog says it does not hack, it is just a calculator. Whats up with this?

All armies of the world: you're hacking! http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ ... 91/ch6.htm

[Scot]

This is the system I am talking about and it is not public.
Mortar Testing Day

"Sir, the enemy is clever than us, what shall we do?"

[Bringerof_D]

using areas you yourself have pre designated...that sounds a lot like how mortar and artillery teams works IRL.

Assuming you set up in the same spot every time, it's the same has IRL when you sit inside a larger FOB and wait for calls. After you setup the mortar pits, you pick out areas of interest and zero out those positions and write them down. tis how artillery works. Now that is fair up to that point. However Rather than making you enter variables, it is reading precise elevations from the height map of the terrain model itself. <this should not be allowed, Even with a proper topographic map i will not get pin point accurate elevation. Public play maybe, but for a tournament for sure that should be banned.

^on that note, i feel the placement of mortars should be allowed within the US main on Korengal. then make it capable by INS. As such a small FOB it isnt too far of a stretch for taliban to try an attack on it, similar to Martello. and mortars in Afghanistan are usually set up within those tiny FOBs. Arguments against would be they could set it up anywhere, that's not the case, there is no place where any FOB set up is even defend able by any means without it being a constant drain of tickets.

[Hitperson]

i think i read that this uses heigh maps in its calculation as far as i'm away heightmaps are not something used in game but used with the editor when generating terrain.


that is a heightmap, it works to "color code" the topography of the map.

putting that into a terrain editor will produce that image as a physical 3d environment.

E: infact parts of this calculator would be excellent for surveying over a large area.

[PFunk]

You are really overselling the advantage gained by using mortars well.

Ask a PRT guy if thats true. Muttrah City we killed half their team at one point with mortars being targeted by a spotter behind their lines. It was sick. They have since returned the favour many times.

Mortars are game breakers if you don't use them right and then if you don't protect against them.

With that said, this isn't cheating, its just smart play. With a prog like these you're actually getting more realism than if you're just guessing at it like some 3rd world git plugging rounds into the desert from some rusted tube.

If this is a hack then so is mumble, and TS, and anyone with a super cool gaming mouse, and a better rig that doesn't lag, who has a better ping cause he's next door to TG, and so on.

Its about being smarter. Punish someone cause they have the brain power to do the math and make a program that spits out the info? Facing a team with someone that can create that and implement it is no different than playing against a squad of guys who can pick your head off before you even know they're there. Its the nerd equivalent to being 1337 with a weapon system.

[cyberzomby]

I'll clarify a bit.

If the program draws positional data from the memory (like mumble does), then yes it is a hack. If not, then it is just a glorified calculator.

Nothing wrong with that.

A calculator that knows a VERY important variable. : Height difference. Just because it draws the heigh-maps from itself rather than the game does not make it not a hack.

If I manage to make a program that gets all the walls/statics from loading it in myself (pre-game) and than use it in game than it is not a wall-hack?

@Pfunk: Yes, TS can be a hack. One squad gets wiped out but are still wounded and see enemies walking over them they can tell another squad exactly where the enemies are. Cause I think you cant teamchat anymore when your wounded. Only other wounded people see the text.

[CallousDisregard]

I didn't quantify the advantage.
I simply stated that it exists and I've seen nothing to refute that.
I'm not surprised at some of the 1337 reactions but that isn't quite cricket now is it ?
But then again, if cheating makes you feel smarter.....have fun with that.

I love the attitude though, "do it yourself" so I am putting up $10 US and hope to get enough people together that we can pay somebody to make a "glorified calculator" that is equal to the secret formula and would allow a level playing field.

[Spec]

Again, the problem is that the heightmaps, however out-of-game they might be, are not available to the average player.

I should not have to download third party programs just so I'm on par with the effectivity of the other players - or if, they should come with the download of the main game, like mumble, or at least be mentioned in the game manual or server rules, such as teamspeak normally is.

[MaxBooZe]

CATA uses guys from the Balkan to man the mortars, Im pretty sure that's about the same thing as using this calculator..

[L4gi]

Blah, you noobs keep your mortars. Id rather be the guy who shoots everyone in the face than sit in a mortar pressing mouse 1 for 4 hours.

Mortars are very useful, but they will not single handedly win you a game. Just sayin.

[KEIOS]

Again, the problem is that the heightmaps, however out-of-game they might be, are not available to the average player.

I should not have to download third party programs just so I'm on par with the effectivity of the other players - or if, they should come with the download of the main game, like mumble, or at least be mentioned in the game manual or server rules, such as teamspeak normally is.

qft

Sure it makes Mortars easier to use, since you do not have to communicate or guess heights anymore - but that's exactly the point where cheating begins. Is it part of the game? No. Do you have an advantage by using it? Yes. Is it in use by the majority of the players, so that there is no unfair advantage, since everybody has it? No!

It isn't smart like some people here think, to use a 3rd party program, known by just a few, which takes away the effort of mastering the game itself, to get an unfair advantage. It is cheating.


It could be much easier, when for example i would have a wallhack. Hey i would still have to aim myself and could miss the target and killing opponents would still depend on my skills blabla..... get it?