the bottle neck of my rig?

Jorgee! · Post by **Jorgee!** » 2011-03-15 17:38

didnt read all, but WTF? 6870 with pentium 4 and 533 mhz ram???????????

Jigsaw · Post by **Jigsaw** » 2011-03-15 17:40

Moved to PR:BF2 Support.

SnipeHunt · Post by **SnipeHunt** » 2011-03-15 17:41

I think you could use more RAM, but your mobo wont support faster RAM.
Perhaps a mobo replacement would help in more ways than just increasing the RAM specs..
Possibly better tracing/more copper in a new mobo might help the system as a whole?

mxlinus · Post by **mxlinus** » 2011-03-15 17:46

Jorgee! wrote:didnt read all, but WTF? 6870 with pentium 4 and 533 mhz ram???????????

well, why the hell not =)

TheComedian · Post by **TheComedian** » 2011-03-15 19:51

It is a bit odd that you have GDDR5 but only 2GB DDR2 on the same MB. Win 7 goes on 1 DVD so its <4.5GB

SnipeHunt · Post by **SnipeHunt** » 2011-03-15 22:14

TheComedian wrote:... Win 7 goes on 1 DVD so its <4.5GB

The files are compressed on the DVD.
Microsoft says minimum disc size for 32bit is 16GB, and 20GB for the 64bit.

whatshisname55 · Post by **whatshisname55** » 2011-03-15 22:16

TheComedian wrote:So very wrong. GPU speed doesn't depend on the CPU. They work independent of each other to lighten each others workload. Think before you write something that makes no sense.

Maybe you should take your own advice. A GPU and CPU cannot lighten the workload for each other with the exception of one case which I will explain later.

A GPU is a dedicated graphics processing unit, this means that it is built to process and render what you see on the screen and nothing else. If you know your computer you will know that the monitor is plugged directly into the GPU.

The CPU is built to process data that the computer and programs need to be able to run, and does not input anything to your monitor. In fact, and correct me if I'm wrong here, the CPU gives the GPU information to process and output to the monitor, and in this case the GPU speed will very much depend on the CPU speed.

Now the exception here is CPU's with integrated graphics. These are CPU's that are capable of processing the graphics along with their typical roles. With one of these, a dedicated GPU is not needed and you should be able to find a video output attached directly to the motherboard. Now I haven't stopped to think about what this means in my original statement but it does work differently than when using a dedicated GPU.
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Another thing is that even though BF2 does not effectively make use of more than one core, I believe Windows 7 (not sure about older OS) can distribute some of the work to the other cores therefore making multi-core processors more useful.

TheComedian · Post by **TheComedian** » 2011-03-16 09:38

whatshisname55 wrote:Maybe you should take your own advice. A GPU and CPU cannot lighten the workload for each other with the exception of one case which I will explain later.

A GPU is a dedicated graphics processing unit, this means that it is built to process and render what you see on the screen and nothing else. If you know your computer you will know that the monitor is plugged directly into the GPU.

The CPU is built to process data that the computer and programs need to be able to run, and does not input anything to your monitor. In fact, and correct me if I'm wrong here, the CPU gives the GPU information to process and output to the monitor, and in this case the GPU speed will very much depend on the CPU speed.

Now the exception here is CPU's with integrated graphics. These are CPU's that are capable of processing the graphics along with their typical roles. With one of these, a dedicated GPU is not needed and you should be able to find a video output attached directly to the motherboard. Now I haven't stopped to think about what this means in my original statement but it does work differently than when using a dedicated GPU.
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Another thing is that even though BF2 does not effectively make use of more than one core, I believe Windows 7 (not sure about older OS) can distribute some of the work to the other cores therefore making multi-core processors more useful.

Sooooo.... Whats wrong with my sentence? He has a desktop with dedicated Graphics Card which does all the graphics work anyway. CPU is there for the rest background processes like sound (if there isn't dedicated sound card), system processes and that pr0n download

Graphics card speed depends on the memory speed which in his case is GDDR5 @ 256bit. If the motherboard can run on GDDR5 that means the CPU must also be able to run well.

To the OP:

Run CPU-Z and GPU-Z. Take screenshots of the CPU, RAM, motherboard and graphics card. It will give a detailed overview of your system and its workings. Then post them here.

declan54321 · Post by **declan54321** » 2011-03-16 09:53

Everybody here seems to think that the GPU does everything. The CPU has a big part in games as well. The physics, calculations etc. Also, it has to run windows plus any background programs.

Getting back to the original question: What is the BOTTLENECK of my system?
Well, the bottleneck is the slowest part of a computer, therefore everybody has one, although yours seems to be more pronounced. Your bottleneck is most definitely the RAM (I upgraded from 2 to 4GB of DDR (400MHz) RAM, and it made vanilla bf2 playable) plus your CPU is fast, but single cores are quickly fading away. Most new games require at least a dual-core to even run. I advise you buy yourself a new motherboard, together with more (and faster) RAM, plus maybe the new model i5. This will compliment your graphics card.

Hope this helps,
Declan

TheComedian · Post by **TheComedian** » 2011-03-16 14:07

declan54321 wrote:Everybody here seems to think that the GPU does everything. The CPU has a big part in games as well. The physics, calculations etc. Also, it has to run windows plus any background programs.

Are you serious? Physics was operated by the graphics card since 5 years ago. Why do they have an integrated physics engine if the physics is run on the CPU (Nvidia-Ageia physics and ATI Havok)

And no, it doesn't have that big an impact. My PR runs with 15% usage on E4600 core 2 duo but graphics card is 100%

Mj Pain · Post by **Mj Pain** » 2011-03-16 14:49

Lol.. Comedian, please take a chillpill and read this.
CPU Bottleneck Analysis Page 1/11

declan54321 · Post by **declan54321** » 2011-03-16 16:30

TheComedian wrote:Are you serious? Physics was operated by the graphics card since 5 years ago. Why do they have an integrated physics engine if the physics is run on the CPU (Nvidia-Ageia physics and ATI Havok)

And no, it doesn't have that big an impact. My PR runs with 15% usage on E4600 core 2 duo but graphics card is 100%

So please explain my HUGE increase in performance after upgrading to an i7920 (from an AMD FX-57)...

The CPU makes a difference in games. The graphics card doesn't run it all on it's own, does it?

TheComedian · Post by **TheComedian** » 2011-03-16 16:47

Mj Pain wrote:Lol.. Comedian, please take a chillpill and read this.
CPU Bottleneck Analysis Page 1/11

I admit that there is a limit to which the CPU can tolerate, but that guy used 2x GTX280 which alone are 2x more powerful than 6870, while you are forgeting the resolution he is testing (2560 X 1600). You cannot compare that benchmark to what we have here. The OP explicitly stated that he uses the rig only for BF2/PR. Tell me would he ever have 100% CPU usage with PR? Or 100% Graphics Card usage? The only resource PR consumes like a beast is the RAM, which can exceed 2.5GB easy.

Greets.

Edit:

declan54321 wrote:So please explain my HUGE increase in performance after upgrading to an i7920 (from an AMD FX-57)...

The CPU makes a difference in games. The graphics card doesn't run it all on it's own, does it?

Going from single core to multi core brings with it many benefits that indirectly affect visual performance.

SnipeHunt · Post by **SnipeHunt** » 2011-03-17 15:17

Am I the only one that finds it hard to take someone with the name of TheComedian seriously. I just keep thinking he's trolling as I read his posts.

TheComedian · Post by **TheComedian** » 2011-03-17 16:20

SnipeHunt wrote:Am I the only one that finds it hard to take someone with the name of TheComedian seriously. I just keep thinking he's trolling as I read his posts.

Well I put my name as thecomedian because thats my ingame name and everybody knows it. To make a new name would just be tedious

/on topic

As I suggested earlier use CPU-Z and GPU-Z to check on your rigs inner workings. If there is a problem you can identify it there.

mxlinus · Post by **mxlinus** » 2011-03-21 13:59

So guys, I bought 2Gb more memory to this rig, just to find out that the motherboard refused to power up with the new memory installed (I also tried with just the new memory and the board just started beeping). I also tried different types or memory placements to the DIMM slots this way the computers powered up but freezed just before the memory check.

Even thought the memory I bought was the same brand and type, they would not work on my machine. I tried everything I could imagine. I flashed BIOS, messed around there with the FSB values and the CPU to DRAM ratios and they did not help.

So the end conclusion is that, I guess I could try to find memory that works with this mainboard (I read that there are issues with this mainboard that it does not recognise or work with all brands and so on), or just give up and leave this as it is.

I probably just start looking for a new mainboard + CPU because I already invested a lot of cash in the GPU =)

Thanks for the advices anyways...

SnipingCoward · Post by **SnipingCoward** » 2011-03-22 17:09

Chances are that a bios upgrade might add compatiblity of your new RAM modules. Check your manufacturer's site.

mxlinus · Post by **mxlinus** » 2011-03-23 12:43

Yes I already updated my BIOS. Did not help unfortunately.

I'm still looking for a solution here thought. Now I'm trying to find a new motherboard that would support the other parts I have, like the memory, CPU and GPU. I managed to find one, but it only has 2 DIMM slots, so I would have to buy new memory again because I now have 4pcs of 1Gb memorys.

As you can imagine, I'm getting pretty frustrated with all there difficulties but I'm not going to give up yet.

sprint113 · Post by **sprint113** » 2011-03-28 14:13

What is the CPU/GPU of the MacBook Pro?

My guess would be your lag is caused by the CPU. I don't think upgrading from 533 to 800 will help that much. Memory quantity is another issue, but since you don't seem to be having stutter when loading new geometries or textures, that probably isn't the case. System fragmentation probably isn't related either since HDD accesses are pretty sparse during gameplay unless he is low on memory.

And regarding CPU in gaming, yes it plays a role. Physics is all CPU in BF2; neither PhysX nor Havok are used in BF2, and PhysX relied on independent PPUs until 2008 when nVidia acquired it. Havok physics wasn't acquired by Intel until 2007 and does not have a hardware accelerated version.

That P4 550 is probably equivalent to a single core of a C2D 1.4GHz. Just to make sure though, run task manager while you play or some hardware monitor and check your memory and CPU utilization to see if either are maxed out.

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