Shotgun Effectivness...

[Tactical Advantage]

Okay, if there is one thing I'm concerned about in this game is how effective shotguns will be, not that I dont love shotguns, I love them and they are great combat weapons. But what I have noticed in many games is that they seem to underestimate how effective a shotgun is, in games such as SOCOM 2(PS2) you cant get a kill will a 12 gauge pump from 20 feet away, you have to be standing literally inches from the guy to cause any damage. Shotguns are effective at quite a good range, I know by shooting clay pigeons that you can easily cause alot of damage at 100ft, well all im saying is to make sure the shotgun doesnt become the BB gun of the game.

[m0ldym1lk]

Okay, if there is one thing I'm concerned about in this game is how effective shotguns will be, not that I dont love shotguns, I love them and they are great combat weapons. But what I have noticed in many games is that they seem to underestimate how effective a shotgun is, in games such as SOCOM 2(PS2) you cant get a kill will a 12 gauge pump from 20 feet away, you have to be standing literally inches from the guy to cause any damage. Shotguns are effective at quite a good range, I know by shooting clay pigeons that you can easily cause alot of damage at 100ft, well all im saying is to make sure the shotgun doesnt become the BB gun of the game.

Yeah, shotguns are great weapons, and can do damage at decent ranges, as I know this from personal experience as you do. I agree, they shouldn't be something that's useless if you can't see the whites of the enemy's eye, but they can't be too accurate. Then we'd have people bitching. See Desert Combat Final...Maybe we could have shotguns loaded with slugs? That would be fun

[Wolfmaster]

the piercable barriers of BF2 makes shotguns much more useful IMO because they're great to pepper an area when you don't know the exact position of the enemy. (i am talking ingame now. this might be very different IRL but i have no experience with shotguns there. so please don't flame me for that)

[Tacamo]

It would also be nice to see a variety rounds for shotguns. OC, flash, breaching, flechette, slug or SLAP rounds.

[Beckwith]

the problem with lengthening the range of a shooty is that people will use them as like sniper rifles if you make them powerful at long range this was a big problem in DC for a long time

[requiem]

How about fireball rounds

[Tactical Advantage]

the problem with lengthening the range of a shooty is that people will use them as like sniper rifles if you make them powerful at long range this was a big problem in DC for a long time

Well im not talking like 400 yards there, maybe like 150ft would do alot of damage on a direct hit, and anything under 100ft would be an instant kill if it was a torso or headshot.

[Ugly Duck]

Modern body armor would probably stop "shot" from doing a lot of damage. A slug would probably different, but the shot guns accuracy would probably negate that anyways.

Shot guns are just meant as CQB weapons. yes having to be right on top of them is obsurd, but so is sniping people from 2 blocks away with a 12 gauge shot gun.

[requiem]

Description: U.S. Marines assigned to Commander, Seventh Fleet, Fleet Anti-terrorism Security Team (FAST), Third Platoon, familiarize themselves with the M500 shotgun.

[m0ldym1lk]

Modern body armor would probably stop "shot" from doing a lot of damage. A slug would probably different, but the shot guns accuracy would probably negate that anyways.

Shot guns are just meant as CQB weapons. yes having to be right on top of them is obsurd, but so is sniping people from 2 blocks away with a 12 gauge shot gun.

A slug can get into the engine block of a small vehicle. Only thing is, slugs drop at an insane rate, so you practically lob the things at targets. Unless you buy those 1645fps slugs, then you have a big *** bruise...But anyhow, I can hit stuff from good distances with a shotgun, it just wouldn't be by any means lethal if it was a body hit on someone with body armor. Getting hit in the face is a different story though, but the odds of that would probably be quite slim.

[Dre]

Ahead of them must look like a blur of shot... poor sea gulls.

[m0ldym1lk]

Dre]Ahead of them must look like a blur of shot... poor sea gulls.

Death to sea chickens! I demand to shoot birds in PR with a shotgun.

[Tactical Advantage]

Well actually Israil uses the shotgun as an urban sniper rifle, the round they use is similar to a tank round where the outter shell comes off and the round continues forward. But yes, body armor could render the effectivness of a shotgun or any weapn for that matter, but to say the least, I wouldn't want to be standing 100yards from a guy with a shotgun and buckshot and having it aimed at my face, remember, war is not always killing your opponent, it's more or less rendering your opponent as no longer a threat.

[Dre]

Dre]Ahead of them must look like a blur of shot... poor sea gulls.

Death to sea chickens! I demand to shoot birds in PR with a shotgun.

[golani]

hehe,
just noticed there isa shotgun topic, but already posted something about it in an other topic.

Well you should forget about expanding shells since this is forbidden by the geneva convention. Only slug's are legal, and these are used to breech doors and locks etc. So in this mod I think it's should be slugs and not expanding shells that are fired by the shotguns

[Eddie Baker]

Well you should forget about expanding shells since this is forbidden by the geneva convention. Only slug's are legal, and these are used to breech doors and locks etc. So in this mod I think it's should be slugs and not expanding shells that are fired by the shotguns

This is not correct. What is meant by "expanding" rounds are bullets that are designed to flatten easily, or "mushroom" upon impact and cause lots of internal trauma. This was originally implemented by the Hague Convention. Provided that shotguns used hardened or "chilled" lead shot, they were considered okay. The legality of the shotgun and buckshot was clarified under the UN Conventional Weapons Conference and Convention (UNCCW) of 1978-1980. The only question of the shotgun's legality was posed in 1918 by the Germans (under Articles I and IV of the 1899 Hague Convention), who were getting mauled by them in the trenches.

[Tactical Advantage]

Well If the Germans were so worried about the Shotgun, why did they let the guys get so close

[Eddie Baker]

Well If the Germans were so worried about the Shotgun, why did they let the guys get so close

Well, this was like 6 weeks before the end of the war and US forces (who were the principal users of the shotgun and the ones the Germans lodged the grievance against) arrived near the end of it. Maybe if they had known the repeating shotgun was such a brutally effective trench broom before that, they would have lodged their protests earlier? The Bundeswehr now uses shotguns, too.

[golani]

Eddie Baker]

Well you should forget about expanding shells since this is forbidden by the geneva convention. Only slug's are legal, and these are used to breech doors and locks etc. So in this mod I think it's should be slugs and not expanding shells that are fired by the shotguns

This is not correct. What is meant by "expanding" rounds are bullets that are designed to flatten easily, or "mushroom" upon impact and cause lots of internal trauma. This was originally implemented by the Hague Convention. Provided that shotguns used hardened or "chilled" lead shot, they were considered okay. The legality of the shotgun and buckshot was clarified under the UN Conventional Weapons Conference and Convention (UNCCW) of 1978-1980. The only question of the shotgun's legality was posed in 1918 by the Germans (under Articles I and IV of the 1899 Hague Convention), who were getting mauled by them in the trenches.

yes, your right only as I quote from another site:

Flechette amunition is illegal under the (4th) Geneva Convention, this type of ammuntion was fired from shotguns and has been banned. Other types of ammunition are still legal. provided that the shot are FMJ there is no edict that prevents them being used. 12gauge shot are not FMJ and therefore are technically illegal under the GC.

so Flechette amunition is illegal
sry for the missunderstanding

[m0ldym1lk]

But will we be able to kill birds?

Oh, and if so, it should be made that hitting a bird causes some serious damage to your aircraft.

A 5 pound goose hitting a plane going at 230 knots will hit with the force of 5 tons. Or something like that.

But you get my idea