Longer fire fights

[Nax]

For everyone citing firefights being hours long in documentaries and what not, that is essentially like calling a whole PR game being a firefight, which it pretty much is. Firefights, especially in regions like Afghanistan, often start with US forces out patrolling, then light skirmishing with a few shots over distance happening, then heating up, with the size of the firefight expanding (and smaller man v man firefights occurring within the larger area). Often firefights may end with one side calling in a heavy asset to even the odds, but that isn't always the case.

This is especially true on the smaller 2km maps. For example, and Al Basrah, I've always thought of the whole 'battle' being one firefight, for it matches the scale of firefights in the real world. Even if the fighting dulls down in one spot or another, it is still two hostile forces trying to out maneuver each other or gain some advantage to take out the other.

[sparks50]

Put blanks in all weapons and let the admin kick whoever looks the least tactical.

[Rudd]

Put blanks in all weapons and let the admin kick whoever looks the least tactical.

best suggestion evar!

[Mikemonster]

Hehehehe

[Herbiie]

I think the main problem is the range.

Think back to your best fire fights, the longest ones especially, they're always at range.

In older Versions, you got really good fire fights on Korengal in the Outpost, because of the range of the shooting.

For example:


Big fire fight, because it's at incredibly long range (for the most part). I also remember more recently on Beirut, a firefight between a FB in the city and an FB on the giant hill, that lasted half an hour or so.

Firefights in PR are the right length for the range, although as Nax said, fire fights aren't just the fighting bits.

[Sirex[SWE][MoW]]

Yeah irl firefights (as in combat between two squads) a, usually don't happen, b, goes down fast because bullets kill people, and if not a grenade will. The most common firefights is between platoon, these last a bit longer irl solely because it takes more time to kill more people.

Also what the pro longerfights group forget is that you do not want longer firefights! Longer firefights means longer time the enemy is firing at you, this is bad. You want to kill the enemy within 5 seconds at most, this applies up to platoon level. In real life a main concern is spring a unified fireopening with the intention of destroing the enemy in one swoop.

Also typically a comapny commander or battalion commander won't allow holdups. If some unit is held up, more units or artillery is deverted to the problem so the firefight will never be long.

[Robert-The-Bruce]

In my experience long firefights really only occur when people don't plan ahead and just shoot at everything that moves, therefor giving away their position to nearby enemies, who then join the fight. The experienced players always wait for an opportunity too kill the majority portion of the enemies in a 5 sceond timeframe, which means that the rest of the enemy formation you face will be quick to go down as well or run away.

So in conclusion, I'd say players have just gotten smarter, thats all. You can still have long firefights, but seeking them out is really only working against you, because it means that BOTH sides will take massive casualties, instead of only your enemies. Don't be stupid, kill them all in one go! <-what my gran always said(never knew what she was refering to but nvm)

[Herbiie]

Yeah but Robert, if both sides are equally good then you will get a long fire fight because neither side will have the advantage, so neither side will be able to cause massive amounts of casualties quickly.

[Robert-The-Bruce]

maybe not an overall advantage, and granted in that situation people are a lot more aware and will probably spot a lot of traps they go into, but it will still occur often enough, because you can't spot everything and it's not about overall advantage, it's rather local advantage. The difference between the two is that, in one case nobody ever gains the advantage, in the other both gain the advantage at different points in time/space, therefor making everything equal overall.

So you'll still get these situations with two good teams, just that both will have them, and they'll sometimes get spoiled by the respective enemy.

[Cassius]

Remind people that staying alive goes a long way in getting your kills. Some people rush too much its the way it is. Its a videogame and while some people put effort into their game, others arent as concerned in keeping their virtual self alife.

[ComradeHX]

It's at a good balance right now, or can even be lowered to what combined arms is. Nobody wants firefights to turn into Project Musket Division.

I do.

Let's make a PR 17xx minimod.

[CaptainG1993]

ive had firefights that can last up to half an hour, we were pinned down in an apartment block on some IDF map and the stand off just seemed to never end till they stupidly decided to enter our building, i personally love the firefights the way they are!

[Lange]

One reason i've noticed firefights are often short is because of how no one tries to do anything tactically. Its either you are seen, get shot up or you and the enemy see each other but you stand around to get shot. Instead of always just trying to eliminate the opposition head on, instead of retreating when your getting wiped, or flanking manuevers etc its always just mindless.

[Sirex[SWE][MoW]]

One reason i've noticed firefights are often short is because of how no one tries to do anything tactically. Its either you are seen, get shot up or you and the enemy see each other but you stand around to get shot. Instead of always just trying to eliminate the opposition head on, instead of retreating when your getting wiped, or flanking manuevers etc its always just mindless.

You can't always flank. Flanking is not the sole tactical move. Fighting head on, using good combat techniques are often better then trying to perform complex movement after engaging. Also a general lack of high explosive anti-personal large caliber infantry held grenaderifles. Like the the Carl gustav and rpg-7 with frag rounds. Just becouse US army infantry don't utilizes such weapons shouldn't mean that every else army get punished for that. They are common.

The problem is that most people that have not been in the military have only heard about tactical stuff like withdraw or flank. But combat technique is often more important, and for individual soldiers is ten times more trained then "tactics". And what do i mean with combat technique? Stuff like that if you see the enemy first, you crouch and report in to SL. You spot the enemy as he spots you, then you fire, move sideways, fire, go crouch in cover and fire and listen to the SL. As soon as you head unexpected gunfire? Press Z! approaching a ridge? Always stay as low as possible. Keep a good formation while advancing. Don't advance unless you have weakened the opposition or you have a CV with you.

[MrTomRobs]

I agree. Although you do occasionally get a decent firefight between factions, they're few, far between, and i never seem to be in any of them. I always seem to be the one bugger in the squad who gets picked off down an alley by a lonewolf...

However, i'd like to see how burning sands would play in the 128 server... i'd imagine there's plenty of scope for good firefights there if there's at least one competent squad on each side.

[Pronck]

I have had a 10 Minute firefight in Muttrah, I tell you it is not fun, since we got attacked by 3 squads in a row and after the first "wave" we were out of grenades and patches.

[BrandenburgKommando]

I agree with the OP but there are not a lot of ways to change this in PR since most of it is due to player behavior and not actual game mechanics

[Arnoldio]

Sometimes when both parties have some common sens eand use cover, firefights can be long, but when both squads are herp derp rush retard, its over in 10 seconds.

And yey, there is lack of cover on many maps, thats why i like Fallujah most, it has all those objects you can use for cover.

[Soakerman]

Ive had a firefight on qwai that lasted 30 minutes with us on 1 side of the river and the Chinese on the other side. You have to realize that the BF2 engine has limitations and most firefights take place at 100-150m when you have long firefights there normally at long distances.

[Brainlaag]

I do.

Let's make a PR 17xx minimod.

Project Reality: Total War mebeh?