[Map] Benghazi (2km) [Concept]

[Rhino]

I was referring to the point of having rocket pod techies

Shooting them at supply trucks, jeeps.

Ah rgr, these rockets are small air to ground dumb rockets much like the Hydras on the attack Huey. It would be really hard to use them against air targets other than possibly choppers but ye, there main purpose is light ground attack. All the Rebals have done is turn an air to ground weapon to a ground to ground weapon by fitting it to a techi

Just basically think of it as shoving the rocket pods from a huey onto the top of a techi and shooting at ground targets in front of you randomly in the hope of hitting something and with the load of missiles you have there is a good chance

I wish I knew how to model, there are quite a few unique buildings in this city that I would like to have.

My best advice there is to make a list of all the stuff you want making with also gathering up refs and info on them and post the list publicly and hope someone helps out with it
Kind of what I did for when I was making muttrah although I posted the list inside the dev forums, in fact I still have the lists today
You can see in the quote below that most of what I put on that list did in fact get done, although granted I did have people to help me and I did a some of it myself but all you need to do is inspire someone enough with your concept and they would be more than willing to help you

[quote=""'[R-DEV"]Rhino;462456']Critical (cant release without it):

• Mosque (needs texture, got col meshes, matt stigger cant do this as he dont know excatly how the BF2 texture system works, please we are counting on you for this!)

High (really needs to be in but possible to release without it):

• dock container stacks (not individual ones, but grouped ones, save on lightmaps etc)
• CARS!! lots and lots of cars! (mainly white cars thou)
• metal garage / shop door thing that can block up these areas in your statics matt: http://img467.imageshack.us/img467/892/untitled2de8.jpg
• dock wall corners
• a separate hut thing thats on the sea wall, as its own static
• souq roof (to go over the vbf2 shop statics)
• souq entrance (not sure if this needs to be made yet)

Textures:

1. New Hexagon Paving slabs
2. New Road/Street textures with the cerb back
3. Cerb Only "road" to put around car parks etc.

Medium (would really help the overall polish for these to be in):

• fish market walls
• the fort (might be able to get one from BF Priates with any luck)
• some more city buildings would be nice
• dock crane (can use the OPK one with any luck)
• the muttrah lamp post
• fish fountain

Low (would be alot of work for not much back, but would help for the polish of the map):

• old ME fishing boats
• a cruise ship

cheers! [/quote]


[quote="Reddeath""]also, that video. I would love for the rocket pod techie to have dented up sides, maybe even one part ripped off[/quote]

You could do dents a bit with custom textures and normal maps

I actually made the compound to scale with the satellite photos and am debating on where to put it as that position is near the center of the city and its hard to work control points in right next to a main base.

I am thinking the rebel main would be best fitted just northeast of where I originally had it. Just one street back, teams would be starting on opposite ends of the map.

I am also tryin to figure out what I would be able to do with the docks, the docks are huge, and there are many of them, but with the main dock being only accessible by swimming and just off the MECs main I feel like it wont get much playtime and as I said I want all of the map to be utilized.

You could go with a slightly different and new approach I've been wanting to try for a few years now which is to not have the traditional main base but instead have lots of mini bases which would also reflect an unorganised rebel force much more effectively.

Basically this system works a bit like ammo caches do on Insurgency, apart from that there is no ammo cache and your still fighting over flags in AAS but basically what you can have is every flag becomes a mini-rebel base, or you can have some flags acting as bases and some not acting as bases. All these mini-bases all spawn a few vehicles each which can only be used by the rebels, with the ones further behind the front line spawning the heavier vehicles naturally. You still have an AAS order you need to attack up and this spawning system means that you don't have the possibility of loosing your heaviest weapon's spawn at the start of the round, although you could have that option if you wanted. This also simulates a war of attrition very well as well where the more the MEC move up, the weaker the rebels get in terms of how many assets they have to play with but that wouldn't be too bad gameplay wise with this map either as the deeper you get into the city, the less you need the assets as infantry play a much bigger role there but vehicles would be needed for a counter attack but you would still have some and again, not 100% necessary for a CA.

Here is a quick example of many of your possible mini-bases locations you could have, with also keeping in mind that you would have a random AAS system on this so only a few of them would be in use in any game but this different mini-base locations will add a lot to replayablity as well as simulating a unorganised rebel force making a stand in different locations.
Note: the thumbnails links are direct links to the images, not the crappy IS links.




Which then you can attack orders like so in terms of AAS3:



Now with the first example, you could have a few tehices spawning at the first location, maybe with even some static defences like ZPU-4 AA guns (to be used on ground targets, although might be a bit OTT, epically for the first flag) and the stadium flag could have a few more techies in it, possibly even one or two rocket techies etc, and as you get further back even more stuff, with the final flag having stuff like tanks etc.

Second example would be basically the same thing, although different rout which also leads into the docks area and the dock flag could have better things to protect it, like the techie with the rocket pod on it which could be used to arty any incoming forces over the open ground of the docks


The big thing about this system would be a new player spawn system, which would need to be worked into it some how but basically how the new spawn system I see working is a bit like the old rally point spawn system, where the spawn would be deleted if there was enemy forces in a certain radius of the spawn point. Naturally only the rebel forces would be able to spawn on this spawn point and it wouldn't be usable by the MEC or w/e forces. This would be the most fundamental item of this system working, all the rest of it, vehicle spawns etc can easily be archived with the code we have currently with just having the vehicles spawning only for team 2, and nothing spawning for team 1 when they get the flag.

This system, mixed with firebases etc as well will give the rebels a very large advantage in terms of spawning and flexibility which the MEC will be able to make up with fire power

This system also as you can see by the second example can fix your problem with the rocks not coming into play easily, as with a dynamic flag system, you can have it come into play some times

[Reddeath]

I like the idea, would the mini bases be static, or randomly chosen at the beginning of a round, much like caches? and when over-ran by MEC would they disappear or just get shut down till MEC leave the area?

And all this rocket pod techie talk gets me excited, someone needs to make this not for my map but the game, it just sounds epic. Could be inaccurate, about 20 rockets, make adjustments based off where you see the rocket hit, maybe a not so fast aim, so you cant spam 20 rockets at a passing by vehicle. Doesn't look like the rebels have any aiming system of it.

[Rhino]

I like the idea, would the mini bases be static, or randomly chosen at the beginning of a round, much like caches? and when over-ran by MEC would they disappear or just get shut down till MEC leave the area?

Basically the closest thing you can compare them to is how flags work in vBF2, where every flag is a spawn point and most flags also have vehicles spawning on them, mostly jeeps and stuff thou some have tanks and APCs spawning and some even have choppers and jets spawning out in the field, like that flag on Op Clean sweep has a runway near it which spawns a jet when you capture it and on 16player Dalian plant, two flags in the middle of the map have attack choppers spawning on it.

The biggest difference between the vBF2 flag system and here thou is that these flags/mini-bases only spawn vehicles for the Rebel forces (and once the MEC capture them they spawn no more vehicles, unless the rebels retake the flag), Rebel forces start off with these flags/mini bases and only the Rebels can spawn on them and only when they hold the flag, providing there is no enemy forces in a certain radius of the flag.

Once the MEC had taken the flag/mini-base, it would act as a normal control point/flag until the rebels retook the flag.


As for if these mini-bases being static or random, that's up to you, personally I would go with the AAS v4 system of attack routs but you could go with the AAS v3 system of totally random points, or go with AAS v2 system of static points that don't change: https://www.realitymod.com/forum/f196-p ... outes.html

You can also mix in all of the different systems into one, having one or more constant static flags, having a few totally random and having some on a pre-defined, random rout.


The only real difference here between normal flags in PR and this system, is that the rebel forces can spawn on the flags (providing no enemies are in a certain radius of it) and vehicles spawn for the rebels on these flag as long as its in rebel control, other than that, it acts as a normal flag and you don't have any "main base" for the rebels, other than you could set the very last flag as the main base but it would be more of a last stand point rather than anything else

And all this rocket pod techie talk gets me excited, someone needs to make this not for my map but the game, it just sounds epic. Could be inaccurate, about 20 rockets, make adjustments based off where you see the rocket hit, maybe a not so fast aim, so you cant spam 20 rockets at a passing by vehicle. Doesn't look like the rebels have any aiming system of it.

Ye, I've only seen it in Libya but from what I've heard they are about in some other scenarios but ye, there seems to be quite a lot of them in Libya (obviously a lot of rocket pods and rockets lying about the place there ).

And ye, aiming would be just guess work basically and aiming all you would do is steer the vehicle to aim left and right, and maybe have a basic up and down control on the keyboard to control the weapons pitch but you wouldn't really have much of an idea how much up or down you where turning it, unless you got out of the techi and had a look, or go off by firing a rocket

[Reddeath]

So if MEC were to cap the base then MEC would be able to spawn there as well?

[Rhino]

So if MEC were to cap the base then MEC would be able to spawn there as well?

No, unlike vBF2, only one team would be able to spawn there (in this case, only the rebels).

[Reddeath]

I really like that, maybe some sort of set up like the last 2-3 caps are bases, and it kinda represents the rebels being pushed out of the city and cutting their supplies.

Would this be something I would have to figure out or something I would just be told how to arrange? all seems like some more advanced stuff that I am not familiar with.

[Rhino]

I really like that, maybe some sort of set up like the last 2-3 caps are bases, and it kinda represents the rebels being pushed out of the city and cutting their supplies.

Yep, not every flag has to be a "mini-base" if you don't want it too

Would this be something I would have to figure out or something I would just be told how to arrange? all seems like some more advanced stuff that I am not familiar with.

It would be very much up to you on how you want to do it (providing you don't go outside of PR's gameplay dynamics to have a negative impact on PR's gameplay with your map's setup which I'm sure you wont, basically that just means no 30sec spawn times on tanks etc ).

The only thing that really needs to be done for this to work is the new spawn system being made which I'm 95% sure is possible and something we are planning for another future map (but not to be used in the same way but the spawn system itself would be more or less the same code).

[Reddeath]

Alright, well I really appreciate all of the help, for now I am going to continue polishing up the concept map, and search around for reference photos on a few statics and hopefully start working on the terrain itself pretty soon here and get some editor pictures up here.

Still have quite a bit of time to figure this all out but I am leaning toward the last 2-3 caps being bases.

One last thing I want to know is if I should replicate the city as close as possible terrain-wise? or should I add variation in height in certain areas?

[Rhino]

Alright, well I really appreciate all of the help, for now I am going to continue polishing up the concept map, and search around for reference photos on a few statics and hopefully start working on the terrain itself pretty soon here and get some editor pictures up here.

Nps and sounds good

Still have quite a bit of time to figure this all out but I am leaning toward the last 2-3 caps being bases.

is that 2 to 3 caps being bases per attack rout or all the random flags all together? Per attack rout sounds fine but over all the random flags, not enough

One last thing I want to know is if I should replicate the city as close as possible terrain-wise? or should I add variation in height in certain areas?

This is a bit of a tough one but for this map I would try and keep things as close to the real city as possible without making it too hard to make. From the looks of things and from what you said before, the city is basically flat so I would keep it like that, with having just some slight variation in heights in areas outside the city and on the roads etc. The only way you can do height variation simply inside a city is with shnt walls, like the ones near the mountains of muttrah where most of the suburbs are up but I don't think they would work too well in this map for the most part so I would mainly look into doing your vertical gameplay via rooftops and enterable buildings and hills outside of the city. Doing small height variation in a city just turns messy and leads to loads of floaters and exploits etc unless done very careful. The only place I did that on muttrah was in the suburbs where the MEC's main base is, but I spent quite a lot of time on that and that was with small buildings etc.

[Curry]

i like the concept, looking forward to fight some battles in north africa.

[Reddeath]

The last 2-3 caps being bases, so like this (obviously not well planned out as its not easy turning a monument/shrine into a base, this is clearly an example)



So of those 6 control points, 3 of them (the 3 with red circles around them) would be the FOBs)

I figure with a CP or 2 being on the MECs side of the river, it would probably give the rebels an advantage to cap a 4th CP before taking some serious fire, but once they lose that CP they risk losing their assets and spawn points, would also encourage getting to the front lines.

Something else I am really coming to like about this map is the the fact that its got 2 choke points, at the same time I am swayed to add some way across the docks, I intend on putting a CSB setup northwest of the bridge. If both factions had boats I would open that dock arm more to allow for that.

[Rhino]

The last 2-3 caps being bases, so like this (obviously not well planned out as its not easy turning a monument/shrine into a base, this is clearly an example)

http://imageshack.us/m/706/9216/unled1sg.png

So of those 6 control points, 3 of them (the 3 with red circles around them) would be the FOBs)

I figure with a CP or 2 being on the MECs side of the river, it would probably give the rebels an advantage to cap a 4th CP before taking some serious fire, but once they lose that CP they risk losing their assets and spawn points, would also encourage getting to the front lines.

TBH that's not a very good use of the mini-bases, you would be far better off with a fixed main base than that as they are all so close together and don't offer any tactical advantage from having multiple mini-bases which is the main point about them

You really want your mini-bases spread across the map, giving the rebels a lot of flexibility in there movement and simulating the general population uprising scattered across the city.

The other thing here is IMO the entire city should be in rebel control. I didn't mention this before as I thought you where on the same page as me with this but it doesn't sound like you are as you talked about rebels capping flags at the start of the round
On Muttrah I would have put the entire city including the docks under MEC control so that the USMC had to fight there way in which would have been the most realistic situation. The reason why I didn't do that is because it would have been too damn hard for the USMC and they would have lost every single round as the USMC take ages to get to the docks in the choppers/boats/AAVs and when they do get there they would be met by a well prepared force covering all the known LZs as demonstrated when it was easily possible to rush the docks and get a firebase up etc.

You on the other hand can get away with putting the entire city in rebel control (which btw would be the most realistic thing too) as the MEC have overwhelming fire power (which is also realistic too). As such one of the big advantages you need to give the rebels is with control of the ground and no better way to do that than giving them the entire city and having them being able to spawn at one of the mini-bases which is right on the front line. The MEC should be able to smash though the first few flags pretty easily but as they slowly take damage, epically on there heavy assets the more they dive into the city, the more the rebels will gain the advantage and then it will soon turn into a stale mate around 1/2 into the city, then the deciding factor of the battle will be the better team making a well balanced map, all you need to do is balance out the assets which will come with play testing but trust me, this is workable

Something else I am really coming to like about this map is the the fact that its got 2 choke points, at the same time I am swayed to add some way across the docks, I intend on putting a CSB setup northwest of the bridge. If both factions had boats I would open that dock arm more to allow for that.

There are a few definite CSB locations but they are really close to the bridge, but they seem really too close to be that useful. You might be able to get some CSBs across the dock but I think this will be pretty tricky to do well, you would probably need some down ramps to the water to start them on etc which would look pretty odd in these locations too..


As for boats, ye boats would be cool, if one of the rebles mini-bases was close to the water you could have it spawning boats, even ones that are farish away you could have spawning boats in the water too. The MEC could have boats spawning in the water off from there main possibly with a sub spawn point next to the boats but would be quite a long sail round (thou possibly worth it?).
There was an idea in the dev forums about having a deployable boat from a truck but it would require a dedicated truck for the role and not everyone was convinced on how well it would work but its an idea to put out there.

There is also another thing to consider with possibly putting sea mines in the harbour which you could make float about in random patterns. Story on mines being put in the harbours: HMS Liverpool responds to Libyan aggression

[Reddeath]

You definitely make a good point on rebels holding the city from the start.

I guess using AAS v4 I could map it out so each route gets a base or two upfront, and then a main in the back.

On the CSBs, I am concerned with it looking not just unrealistic, but downright silly. Dont want 4 platforms across a gulf. I am thinking I may be able to park some large oil/cargo ships along the closest points and make some kind of bridge out of trash and materials connecting the ships, as if the rebels are creating a backdoor to attack the port. This would be an infantry only path obviously, no tanks rolling over fences, and I like the fact that it could potentially take some serious tactical teamwork in order to get armor and supplies over the bridge, or through the highway with a good reward on the other side (being able to build an FOB in the city)

If I had sea transport to work with I would probably blow off part of the sea wall as if a stray mortar hit it, allowing ships to go through it, but that is not the case =\

[Rhino]

You definitely make a good point on rebels holding the city from the start.

I guess using AAS v4 I could map it out so each route gets a base or two upfront, and then a main in the back.

Ye, although I would go more for something like back, middle and front to keep them spaced out as much as possible, although you may want to consider more than just 3 in some situations. Also with the AAS v4 routes you can have a verity of setups, including asset setups for the rebels

On the CSBs, I am concerned with it looking not just unrealistic, but downright silly. Dont want 4 platforms across a gulf.

Ye it would most likey look totally stupid but worth experimenting with IMO to see if there is anything you can get working there

I am thinking I may be able to park some large oil/cargo ships along the closest points and make some kind of bridge out of trash and materials connecting the ships, as if the rebels are creating a backdoor to attack the port. This would be an infantry only path obviously, no tanks rolling over fences

Ye, possibly but that would probably look pretty odd too. A simpler solution would be just have a small distance to swim between with ladders on each side

I like the fact that it could potentially take some serious tactical teamwork in order to get armor and supplies over the bridge, or through the highway with a good reward on the other side (being able to build an FOB in the city)

Yep, although while it wont be too hard for the MEC to brake though these choke points with there tanks, the rebels may have more of a problem with there light vehicles. Too few choke points can lead to some really bad gameplay but I think two should be enough in this case and they are near enough at the front to make it not impact on the overall battle too much, other than MEC's initial push over them

If I had sea transport to work with I would probably blow off part of the sea wall as if a stray mortar hit it, allowing ships to go through it, but that is not the case =\

hehe, reminds me of something I was thinking of doing with Muttrah's wave breaker (correct term for the sea wall protecting the harbour btw). TBH going round the outside of the wave breaker shouldn't be too bad as when your in a boat you want to stay covert and going round the edge is a good way of doing that, although saying that the very west one is very, very close to the edge of the map, might want to look into putting a little more distance between the edge of the map and it if you can.

[Reddeath]

Nice photo of the shrine/monument or whatever it may be, taken from the south west roundabout looking toward the bridge and city. Really captures how flat the area is.

I have been searching for pictures for references to try and get some models made, I wont be requesting them until I have something that looks promising though. Would not want people to make something that would not get used, although its always nice to have new statics regardless of where their real life counterparts are.

I pulled the west most wave breaker down a little, still without boats it is kinda useless anyway, but would make, if they come in the future, adding boats a little easier.

Swimming is always an option getting between docks, I plan on making sure there are ladders and/or ramps between the 2 main docks.

Updated the main map with an image representing the Islamic Call Building, and a CSB marker, also minor edits.

[Rhino]

Looks good, google earth can be a good course for ref photos of real locations if you haven't looked on there

I would also have two CSB locations here, with the very south one looking very long and pointless ye but the MEC might want to build one there to move undetected by the rebel forces, which would take a bit to build, but would be worth it in the end

[Reddeath]

Yea, google maps is the only place I can really find photos of these places, I still got some more diggin to do but right now there are 4 structures I am looking to request.

That Shrine (forgot the picture in above post)
http://imageshack.us/m/860/7110/unledbev.png

Do not know the name of this building, google maps does not say.
http://img829.imageshack.us/img829/3109/ub2r.png

Old Lighthouse
http://imageshack.us/m/571/7452/lighthouse1.png

and the Islamic Call Building
http://imageshack.us/m/19/9425/icg1.png

The CSB over the lake could be a good idea, and being so close to the MEC Main would allow it to be built quickly.

[Zemciugas]

Looks like this map is getting a lot of support. One thing for sure is that it will need to be scaled down to be playable and you don't need to stick to the actual buildings that are there. Looks interesting definately.

[Reddeath]

I know I do not need certain building's but there is no harm in having them if someone is willing to make any of them. Its all about the immersion, and not only would new statics help out my map, they would be in the game files for future maps.

It is worth a request.

[Shovel]

I may be able to make the shrine, but I am low on free time.