The airfields on Kashan need a upgrade

[lukeyu2005]

Has anyone noticed the airfields on Kashan are way too small the runways are too short. It's landable but would appreciate it if it was longer.

Most of the time this isn't a problem on the deployment servers

but the problem is mainly in Co-op with so many jets in the air it almost gets to the point where you need a air traffic controller

Also the runway being too short in PR it's not like you can abort a landing quickly. You touch down a bit far in and then realise your not going to stop and you;ve been slowing down for a bit. Hitting full throttle isn't going to help as you can't get fast enough and slowing down won't slow you down fast enough so you drive into the barrier at the end of the run way and people call you a noob and wasting assest.

And besides there is never any combat going on with in at least 1 km of the airfields so i reckon it wouldn't do any harm to extend the runway by about another 300 to 400m and maybe even add in a second runway.

It won't harm gameplay. Just make losing assests due to the lack of a clarity on landing a little bit less common

[dtacs]

Threads like this are more appropriate for the Map Feedback Section.

I personally have seen no issues with the runways from competent pilots. All it takes is practice, there are many piloting guides with specific details about how to land on Kashan.

Combat most definitely does occur within 1km of the airfields, especially when the MEC cap out the US and proceed to move in toward the airfield to finish the job.

Out of curiosity, what servers are you playing on and how competent are the pilots when they are - in your opinion - losing jets so frequently?

[Jigsaw]

Thread moved.

[lukeyu2005]

veteran's co-op gaming. just the usual co-op servers. Anywhere where people train and learn to fly.

[Pronck]

Out of curiosity, what servers are you playing on and how competent are the pilots when they are - in your opinion - losing jets so frequently?

I guess you want to recommend TG, but that is not fair. People who dont want to pay $5 a month get kicked often after 5 minutes. So please keep that in mind, I have seen lots of assets getting lost in that server because they had to kick that pilot.

[Snazz]

I doubt anything will be done to improve Kashan (or Qinling) however it is something for mappers to keep in mind for the future.

Vapoman's new Black Gold map has dual extended runways for example.

Hopefully the jets themselves are also tweaked in upcoming patches.

[splatters]

Hnngght... The runways on Kashan and Qinling are absolutely gastly. They should be done the same way as in vanilla (or Al Basrah), not with elevated static objects. The only reason the runways are like they are now in PR is that they were designed to be destroyable, however baserape is not allowed anywhere anymore so it's pointless.

I'm not saying that I have trouble landing on them, but it is ridiculous and unrealistic. Not to mention the amount of assets that are wasted because of the runways especially on Qinling. It doesn't take much from a mapper to fix it, at least if you have access to original files.

Real runways are usually few kilometers long and much wider, even though that is not needed in PR they could use a bit more room in my opinion too. And the runway size wouldn't be such a big problem if you didn't have a 50-100cm drop on the edges.

BTW, tip for rookie pilots who don't know how to land the jets: If you must get the plane down safely but think you are going to overshoot or something like that, you can just jump out of the cockpit and sacrifice yourself - the plane will stop almost immediately on the runway. Hopefully this will be fixed soon too, along with the feather like chopper and jet wrecks.

[Rhino]

Hnngght... The runways on Kashan and Qinling are absolutely gastly. They should be done the same way as in vanilla (or Al Basrah), not with elevated static objects. The only reason the runways are like they are now in PR is that they were designed to be destroyable, however baserape is not allowed anywhere anymore so it's pointless.

Not completely true, as partly the reason for having them elevated is to try to avoid zfighting with the runway and terrain. If you put them directly on the surface of the ground, then they zfight to ****.

I have been looking into new methods of making airfields which looks very promising and means you have the airfield razed up only a few cms which btw, is realistic and are also able to have proper runways, taxiways etc but just need to finalize the coding on it before I go more into it

It doesn't take much from a mapper to fix it, at least if you have access to original files.

Are you volunteering?

Real runways are usually few kilometers long and much wider, even though that is not needed in PR they could use a bit more room in my opinion too.

The average runway for fighter aircraft is around 4kms long, normally longer to also operate larger aircraft too. If we had realistic scales of airfields in PR, the entire map would be just one big airbase

We have to compromise on this to have airfields in maps, while also having some terrain open for ground combat.

I doubt anything will be done to improve Kashan (or Qinling) however it is something for mappers to keep in mind for the future.

Indeed, its really not worth me or anyone else spending time on fixing the Qinling airbase when it really needs phasing out of PR anyways.

[dtacs]

I guess you want to recommend TG, but that is not fair. People who dont want to pay $5 a month get kicked often after 5 minutes. So please keep that in mind, I have seen lots of assets getting lost in that server because they had to kick that pilot.

No - I'd recommend a good server where the admins identify people who have little training in jets, high ping, or have been known to previously waste assets. Not paying attention to player skill as an admin is stupid. Players should have to adapt to a runway, by learning how to use the asset first.

And for the record in my 6ish months of playing TG frequently I have never seen a player in a valuable asset deliberately kicked to make room for a supporting member. And for that matter, the system kicks the longest-playing player on the server, its not often down to admin decision.

Indeed, its really not worth me or anyone else spending time on fixing the Qinling airbase when it really needs phasing out of PR anyways.

Is Shijia a valid reason to remove it or must the map also feature jets and Brits v China?

[splatters]

Not completely true, as partly the reason for having them elevated is to try to avoid zfighting with the runway and terrain. If you put them directly on the surface of the ground, then they zfight to ****.

I have been looking into new methods of making airfields which looks very promising and means you have the airfield razed up only a few cms which btw, is realistic and are also able to have proper runways, taxiways etc but just need to finalize the coding on it before I go more into it

Having the runway done purely by textures and road splines would cause almost no z-fighting as far as I'm conserned. I would very much like to like to know your new methods though!

Are you volunteering?

Why not, I consider myself pretty competent with the bfeditor. Depends on what I would be volunteering to!

The average runway for fighter aircraft is around 4kms long, normally longer to also operate larger aircraft too. If we had realistic scales of airfields in PR, the entire map would be just one big airbase

We have to compromise on this to have airfields in maps, while also having some terrain open for ground combat.

Well, to be precise fighter jets (incldng. those that happen to be in PR) can take off from much shorter runways but the runways just happen to be longer to commodate larger airplanes. I do realize that the bases can't hog up most of the game area.
Btw, I've had this map ideo of a full scale airfield (Kabul) but have yet to realize it. That's a whole different story though!

[Rhino]

Is Shijia a valid reason to remove it or must the map also feature jets and Brits v China?

No Shijia doesn't even offer much heavy vehicle combat let alone jets and the maps are just very different all round other than the factions and the size of the map.

The reason why Qinling needs to be removed is because it simply isn't that good and only really shines gameplay wise when you have two coordinated teams which your only really going to find in a pre-organised battle.

The only reason why its still in PR is its the only map that has many vehicles from both PLA and Brits that do not appear on any other maps, mainly jets yes but also AAVs, tanks (in large numbers) etc.

[Rudd]

there won't be any change this version for the airfields, but I don't see a big drama in giving an extra 20 or so meters, as long as the terrain doesn't require moving its easy enough.

re Qinlings Airfields, thats a bit different

[Rhino]

Having the runway done purely by textures and road splines would cause almost no z-fighting as far as I'm conserned. I would very much like to like to know your new methods though!

Doing a runway 100% with terrain textures doesn't look at all good because as soon as you get any distance away from it, the mipmaps kick in and all you get is a huge blur... Some screenshots of a quick test map I made for the coders to test jets and choppers on of the runway when landing, up close the runway looked ok but still, very low detail as the colour textures are not that big.


The problem with traditional roads is they do zfight up close on the edge of a 4km map (where airfields tend to be normally) which looks like utter ****. I don't have any SSs to hand of this but can remember it very clearly and was one of the big reasons I ditched this as this is what I did this sort of taxiway on Qinling before doing the modelled taxiway:


Mixing the two is also not a good idea as then you get offset lines from the colourmap, which is a bit bad on a 2km map like Muttrah in the docks where I've done it, but on a 4km map it looks really, really crappy.

Well, to be precise fighter jets (incldng. those that happen to be in PR) can take off from much shorter runways but the runways just happen to be longer to commodate larger airplanes. I do realize that the bases can't hog up most of the game area.

While yes that is somewhat true, most modern fighters can take off in under 1km with a light load of a weapons, take-off distance is still much shorter than landing distance on these aircraft

Btw, I've had this map ideo of a full scale airfield (Kabul) but have yet to realize it. That's a whole different story though!

Not a new idea, been done before in PR with "Airport" and also I'm pretty sure some other community mappers are working on maps like Baghdad International Airport or something. TBH fighting over open flat ground isn't that interesting on a large scale



EDIT: small teaser of what is hopefully yet to come, but still has one pretty large issue we need to overcome with it before we can run with it.


Also don't read into thinking its a new map, that's just a simple test map

[Tarranauha200]

Remove jets and add attack choppers.
Everyone happy?

[Sgt.BountyOrig]

VTOL harrier :O ...

fixed!1

[Rhino]

Remove jets and add attack choppers.
Everyone happy?

you obviously haven't experienced the full potential of player controlled CAS.

[Tarranauha200]

you obviously haven't experienced the full potential of player controlled CAS.

I have and I know that it is very powerful tool when used by skilled pilots and with good coordination. Kiowas ability to spot for them makes jets even more efective as you can scan larger areas quicly.+
In think jets are kinda outtaded and maps are too small for them, but thats just my opinion.
But they can make 8km maps these days.

As long as there is 32 layout availeble whit choppers, Im happy.

[killonsight95]

I hate jets, i lvoe to fly them, they're fun etc. but bassically the only thing that can take a jet down is another jet. Which imo is wrong, I think AA should be given a lock on distance 100-200M furthur than view distance, however i think flares should gbe mroe effective gameplay wise.

[mockingbird0901]

Not entirely true. Not so long ago I took out both enemy jets on Kashan CnC with a deployed stinger. Sure, one of them were stupid and just dived straight inn not knowing what he was facing, the other one was just spotting at a low altitude, but still. So on public servers, jets aren't that much of a problem the way I see it, though with a good pilot, and an organized team, I recon you're right.
As for the flares, I wish they would double the amount, and make the jets eject 2 at a time, one to the left, and one to the right.

[Stealthgato]

Rhino;1605417']

Also don't read into thinking its a new map, that's just a simple test map

1- That looks sexy;
2- zomg Harrier !