[Map] Dahla Dam (4km) [WIP]

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Rudd
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re: [Map] Dahla Dam (4km) [WIP]

Post by Rudd »

|TG-Irr|Nixon wrote: I also have a few questions:
  1. I can make the map, but for the CPs I will need help with the python, could someone help me out? DEVs or other member of community?
  2. If anyone wants to help please contact me, this is a big undertaking for a novice like my self.
Cheers,

Nix
regarding 3, I assume you don't want to modify how AAS works, all you need is in the map audit tut or here https://www.realitymod.com/forum/f189-m ... aasv4.html

regarding 4, I think you have my xfire if you need help from time to time
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Rhino
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re: [Map] Dahla Dam (4km) [WIP]

Post by Rhino »

|TG-Irr|Nixon wrote:@ [R-DEV]Rhino: The HQ is there because I wanted to put it out of the way and under a dome of death. Its only exit is a pass that will have two bunkers on the top of the hills. Both will have AT emplacements so if the CF come to close they will be blown away!
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Red lines are predictable routs for vehicles to be moving from the Taliban main to the flags and yellow areas are perfect ambush spots for the CF where they are very likley to see enemy vehicles moving. This is way to predictable for a side that is meant to be able to blend in with the population and be coming out of anywhere and your focusing the gameplay into the middle of the map at just ambushing...

Even if you do have AT emplacements, they are not going to be manned all the time and all it takes is one sniper to take them out, which isn't going to be at all hard if they are in the same location ever round as after a few rounds, players are going to learn the perfect way to defeat them but they wouldn't cover anything like all thous spots the Taliban need to run though.

Your map will not play at all well with your main base there, trust me.
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ledo1222
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re: [Map] Dahla Dam (4km) [WIP]

Post by ledo1222 »

Looking at those Pictures the Dam dosent look all that difficult, Even tho it looks like a pile of earth and some concrete walls holding the water back. Witch in my eyes looks easily to build.

Second i would not place the Taliban main base there, because how will men be deployed to the front lines( The island FYI). I would altogether make a massive cave system with a Deployment area witch has a DOM around the cave system around 200-300m, so the CF can't easily camp the path way(s). If you do with making the Main deployment area in the mainland, i would make the Island a cache spawn where it has and underground little bunker, left by the soviet Russia. And it would have 40mm guns covering the Bunker, and the CF would have to Hammer it down with Mortars and Area Attacks. then the CF can come in there Chinooks and raid the place.
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Rhino
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re: [Map] Dahla Dam (4km) [WIP]

Post by Rhino »

ledo1222 wrote:Looking at those Pictures the Dam dosent look all that difficult, Even tho it looks like a pile of earth and some concrete walls holding the water back. Witch in my eyes looks easily to build.
Ye, it is in fact pretty simple to make with terrain and the road tools.

EDIT: Just looked at the location on google earth and I'm surprised how different your layout is from the real place... If your going to base a map on a r/l location, you really should keep to it as much as possible where you seemed to have changed everything :(
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|TG-Irr|Nixon
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re: [Map] Dahla Dam (4km) [WIP]

Post by |TG-Irr|Nixon »

@ Rud: Thx for the offer, will be in touch, what about those staticts of the optimized hedgerows?

@ Rhino and Ledo1222: The HQ is just one of the places where the Taliban will spawn. It will be out of reach of the CF to protect the BMPs and the T-55. I’ve planed may other sites (all over the map in basements like the cache in Al-Basara). If that para-drop idea I propose works there will be no camping for the CF since Talibans will come form everywhere. Also, CF will have there hands full looking for caches and re-capturing flags, maybe I was not clear, but they start with the VCP and that’s all, sure they can camp the caves and wait for the Talibans to come out but their tickets will run out. Furthermore, CF will need to leave behind some forces to defend the airbase since it’s pretty close to 2 hideouts and will come under fire. I would add that it’s the same case on Muttra City 2, there is only 1 way out of that neigberhoud where the MEC spawn… I never saw USMC camping there. Finally don’t forget that it’s a 4km map, 32 players.

@ Rhino: Are you sure you looked at the right spot? (33?17'37.77"N, 68?38'0.46"E). The dam is actually 34 km S-E from Ghazni. I’ve oriented the map to have the east on the top (looked better that way). I am mapping directly off the Google Earth imagery I took from the area. I am GIS graduate student so making maps is pretty much what I do for a living. This map is a 2:1 scale of RL, I would made it 1:1 but, I would have missed some of the cool elements like the surrounding mountains and parts of the city. The dam is 147 km form Kabul, that why the CF will only have the tanks when they get the airfield since they will be flown in…
Rhino
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re: [Map] Dahla Dam (4km) [WIP]

Post by Rhino »

|TG-Irr|Nixon wrote:I would add that it?s the same case on Muttra City 2, there is only 1 way out of that neigberhoud where the MEC spawn? I never saw USMC camping there. Finally don?t forget that it?s a 4km map, 32 players.
Muttrah is very different from this. The main obvious difference is Muttrah is an urban city, meaning it has lots of little streets, each street being a different rout with protection on either side (as well as cover for ambushers yes) but what this means is you get loads of different possible routes in a small space which for an ambusher means you can only cover only a few routes at any one time in a very small area as view distance accounts for very little.

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Red marks MECs normal movements (yes the rout upto the NE isn't that common but dose happen) and yellow mark good ambush spots where the enemy is likely to be, with green dots marking common ambush points for guys with AT weapons or watching C4 etc.

Now the main reason why you don't see people hanging outside the main base is because most servers do now allow it. On servers that do allow it you do quite often find a guy with a H-AT sitting right out side the entrance on a nice high roof and it is pretty gey when it happens. But once the vehicles have got out from the initial choke point, they feather out over quite a few different routes and are pretty hard to predict which one they are going to take, although most people don't take the sea front route as its too exposed.

After that there is two predictable ambush points again which again, you do often see ambushes here too although for some reason not that many people have clocked onto the fact that here are some really common ambush points, maybe because it isn't that obvious just looking at the map but you do get some smart people setting up ambushes here, I've done it before and really raked in loads of kills to the point where guys where actually willing to risk going on the sea front rather than go down our death trap :p

After this point thou all movement again feathers out down many streets and is really hard to predict exactly which rout anyone is going to take.

So to summarise, the main reason why this isn't a huge problem on muttrah is because most servers don't allow it and its pretty damn hard to get an ambush team and supplies there without being spotted, since the only way to really do both is with a chopper and once you see that hovering outside your main you are going to investigate :p

|TG-Irr|Nixon wrote:@ Rhino: Are you sure you looked at the right spot? (33?17'37.77"N, 68?38'0.46"E). The dam is actually 34 km S-E from Ghazni. I?ve oriented the map to have the east on the top (looked better that way). I am mapping directly off the Google Earth imagery I took from the area. I am GIS graduate student so making maps is pretty much what I do for a living. This map is a 2:1 scale of RL, I would made it 1:1 but, I would have missed some of the cool elements like the surrounding mountains and parts of the city. The dam is 147 km form Kabul, that why the CF will only have the tanks when they get the airfield since they will be flown in?
That isn't the Dahla Dam (but I agree this dam/area a much better dam gameplay wise).

The Dahla Dam is 31?50'56.28" N 65?53'20.21" E which also matches the dam on your ref pics (a big dirt mount :p ) where the other dam you have is obviously concrete. You can confirm this dam I've pointed out is the real Dahla Dam as it is according to the wiki "34 kilometers north of Kandahar City", which I've confirmed on google earth it is.

This dam is called the "Band Sardeh Dam" and it looks like this:
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It would also be good if you keep North at the same point ingame as it is in r/l, Currently East is your North...
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|TG-Irr|Nixon
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re: [Map] Dahla Dam (4km) [WIP]

Post by |TG-Irr|Nixon »

You are a fine geographer Mr. Rihno! I never imagined that someone would uncover my secret! :D

You are totally right, the true Dahla Dam is north of Kandahar City, however it’s a dull little place and that’s why I took the Band Sardeh Dam for my map instead.

Band Sardeh is protected by B Company of the 3rd Battalion, 187th Infantry: (At War: Reporter?s Notebook: In Afghanistan, Glimpses of the Soviet Try - Afghanistan - Zimbio) Nonetheless, being Canadian, I wanted a CF map and not another USA map, that’s why I named it “Dahla Dam” to be in tune with current events.

Like I said before, the concert dam static I am using is just a place holder until I am able to find a model or able to make a perfect 60 degrees slope on the whole surface and trust me I tried and its dam hard ( no pun intended ;) ) with BFeditor!

As for the north being the east, I wanted it to be that way, just because it looks better. I’ve already started with the roads and statics so I guess it will stay that way.

Cheers,

Nix
Rhino
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re: [Map] Dahla Dam (4km) [WIP]

Post by Rhino »

hehe rgr
|TG-Irr|Nixon wrote:Like I said before, the concert dam static I am using is just a place holder until I am able to find a model or able to make a perfect 60 degrees slope on the whole surface and trust me I tried and its dam hard ( no pun intended ;) ) with BFeditor!
there are two ways of doing this, there is first the simple way with using the road tool which is covered in this tut here, but isn't the best way but is the simplest so best for you: Making Terrain Slopes (Image Heavy) - Official BF Editor Forums


The best way, but the more complicated way is to edit the heightmap with photoshop and add a gradient on there which although complicated and very hard to do, can be done very accurately with a pretty much perfect gradient but it isn't something I would advise a first time mapper to try.
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|TG-Irr|Nixon
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re: [Map] Dahla Dam (4km) [WIP]

Post by |TG-Irr|Nixon »

Hi,

4 Questions:

1) Is there an easy way to keep track of destructible objects on a map?
2) Most of my map will be farmland, what will result in less lag: undergrowth, multiple rice fields statics or overgrowth?
3) Where I can find the file to compile my lightmaps for PR? (I have read that I need to d/l something I've used the search option to no avail)
4) Is there a better "lowresolution default texture", or should I use the vanilla one?
Rhino
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re: [Map] Dahla Dam (4km) [WIP]

Post by Rhino »

gay, was just at the end of replying then lost my post, damn quick reply!

anyways here it is again :p

1. Yes, in the level editor there is a "Level Info" tab at the bottom of the screen and clicking that will bring up lots of useful info about your map. In there is a destroyable object and dynamic object count, which should both be the same value unless you have some dynamic objects in your map (which your shouldn't) as dest objects are counted as dynamic objects.


2. Yes, but I've yet to perfect our new overgrowth fields performance which I plan on doing at some point in the next few months but generally speaking open fields are better for performance than lots of buildings :p


3. You can download PR's lightmap samples pack here: https://www.realitymod.com/forum/f354-c ... mples.html
Note: It is a little out of date and while it dose have most of PR's statics in there, a few are missing. If you find any PR statics that you are missing lightmap samples for (note, pr statics, not xpack statics etc, there are not any samples for them) then just ask and we should be able to provide you with them.

You should be able to get the vBF2 lightmap samples on the editor forums etc, take it you already have them.

There is also the option of 3DsMax LMing which dose not require LM samples and gives you a much better result than editor lightmaps, how ever is very complicated. Basic tut on it here: Advanced Lightmapping Tutorial (using 3dsmax) - Official BF Editor Forums


4. Yes, you can find other low detail textures in the client.zips of other vBF2 and PR maps and just replace your "lowdetailtexture.dds" with one of them :)
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|TG-Irr|Nixon
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re: [Map] Dahla Dam (4km) [WIP]

Post by |TG-Irr|Nixon »

Thx for the quick reply,

P.S. I always type my msgs in word and paste them to avoid that mate :D

For #2: Let me rephrase: which of theses will create less lag if there are in large numbers: a) undergrowth, b) multiple rice fields statics or c) overgrowth

For #4: I've saw them, but in your opinion, for a desert which one would look the best?

Cheers,

Nix
Rhino
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re: [Map] Dahla Dam (4km) [WIP]

Post by Rhino »

|TG-Irr|Nixon wrote:P.S. I always type my msgs in word and paste them to avoid that mate :D
Normally not a problem for me and when I do really long posts I do that, but in notepad instead of word :p

|TG-Irr|Nixon wrote:For #2: Let me rephrase: which of theses will create less lag if there are in large numbers: a) undergrowth, b) multiple rice fields statics or c) overgrowth
Out of thous options, undergrowth on its own has the least performance impact but you only can have a 100m maxium view distance on your undergrowth without having a serious performance impact where overgrowth fields (b and c, they are the same thing :p ) draw for long ranges and for having the same view distance on both, overgrowth fields are far better :p

Also I always advise on using undergrowth in overgrowth fields to bulk them up when up close, giving them more verity in height etc too so ye, just because you have undergrowth with overgrowth as opposed to only just having undergrowth on its own is obviously going to be easier on performance :p

But like I said right now overgrowth fields are a little heavy on performance when used in large numbers. In fact they are worse in v0.95 than they where in v0.9 which they have been reverted back to there v0.9 state for v0.96 but still needs some optimizing on top of that which I plan on looking into in a few months which will mean you will be able to use a large amount of fields without a serious performance impact.


The choice you really have is do you have fields with high crops in them, which in that case you need overgrowth fields to archive that, or open fields which are just ploughed and/or have no crops in them which then you can get away with just undergrowth on its own. Its best to mix in the two where you can :)

|TG-Irr|Nixon wrote:For #4: I've saw them, but in your opinion, for a desert which one would look the best?
Its a matter of trial and error to get the right one for your map. Try each one, see what its like, then pick the best one as one that works on one map wont necessarily work on another :)



Also I keep on forgetting to mention this but don't bother placing down any buildings or walls yet as the Afghan v1 (buildings used in asda khal) and Afghan v2 statics (buildings used in lashkar valley) are being phased out of the mod due to them being low detail, unrealistic and/or bad on performance and being replaced by a new set of statics so just work on other areas of the map, mainly the terrain, fields etc and just mark out where you want to put your compounds roughly etc :)
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|TG-Irr|Nixon
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re: [Map] Dahla Dam (4km) [WIP]

Post by |TG-Irr|Nixon »

Thx mate :)

I will leave the fields without vegetation/crops and take advantage of the new ones that you are working on. As you suggested, there will be a mix of empty, full and also flooded field in the final version of my map BTW any good way to create fooled fieds w/o using a water static? I am already using like more than 25 Qinling type 2 water statics for my lake and irrigation canals!

As for the buildings, I am using the "Iraq" types (from Al-Basara) since they look more like the ones I saw in my reference pictures. Right now I am trying to focus on roads, texture and terrain. I had a bad surprise when I used the soldier camera things I thought where small and climbable are actually huge and many of my roads seem to glitch with the terrain (will this stop when I apply the build final roads option?)

Nix
Rhino
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re: [Map] Dahla Dam (4km) [WIP]

Post by Rhino »

|TG-Irr|Nixon wrote:BTW any good way to create fooled fieds w/o using a water static? I am already using like more than 25 Qinling type 2 water statics for my lake and irrigation canals!
You can have "puddles" in the detail texture but this isn't really flooded if that's what you want to do. Can go more into that if you want but they are like the puddles you find on zatar.

I would strongly advise aginst using waterplanes other than where you really need them (for the dam) as waterplanes need there own lightmaps, and very large ones like the Qinling water planes need very large lightmaps (qinling ones use 512x512 LMs and 80% of that isn't used) although this can be optimized, but still, not very good.

Where you can you should use sea water (even if it isn't sea) as that uses the terrain lightmaps, with only using waterplanes for the razed up areas in your map where dams are etc or small ones where you really need them for little details.


|TG-Irr|Nixon wrote:As for the buildings, I am using the "Iraq" types (from Al-Basara) since they look more like the ones I saw in my reference pictures. Right now I am trying to focus on roads, texture and terrain. I had a bad surprise when I used the soldier camera things I thought where small and climbable are actually huge and many of my roads seem to glitch with the terrain (will this stop when I apply the build final roads option?)
You mean these ME "village" ones?
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Not at all realistic for afghanistan I'm sorry to say and not very good on performance since they are destroyable etc.

As for your roads, ye that gets fixed when you build your roads, don't worry about it. You may get some zfighting on your roads thou near the corners of your map so try and keep roads away from them if possible.
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|TG-Irr|Nixon
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re: [Map] Dahla Dam (4km) [WIP]

Post by |TG-Irr|Nixon »

[R-DEV]Rhino wrote:Not at all realistic for afghanistan I'm sorry to say and not very good on performance since they are destroyable etc.
Well, they are the closes matches I found in the PR and Vbf2 list. Here are pictures of "Band-e Sardeh", the village just next of the dam:

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If you can find me buildings that look more like those I would be happy to put them in :D

Nix

BTW have an idea of what those crops are in the last picture? Left side I can see an orchard and the field I don't have a single clue!
Last edited by |TG-Irr|Nixon on 2011-06-10 22:50, edited 2 times in total.
Reason: Forgot something
Rhino
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re: [Map] Dahla Dam (4km) [WIP]

Post by Rhino »

Cheers for the refs, if you have any more like that it would be good!

And ye the me village buildings don't match them at all really :p

My new buildings I'm making match thous much better which is why you should hold off on placing down your buildings for now ;)

Not sure on the crops but in the bottom left is a small orchard of some kind.
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|TG-Irr|Nixon
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re: [Map] Dahla Dam (4km) [WIP]

Post by |TG-Irr|Nixon »

[R-DEV]Rhino wrote:Cheers for the refs, if you have any more like that it would be good!

And ye the me village buildings don't match them at all really :p

My new buildings I'm making match thous much better which is why you should hold off on placing down your buildings for now ;)

Not sure on the crops but in the bottom left is a small orchard of some kind.
I spent about half a day doing research before I started the map and those pictures where the best I could find (I have all of them in high-res like the last one). Information and images on the area is quite scarce: I wanted a road layout but Google, Yahoo and Bing don't even have this village on their maps! After looking at the satellite images I found out that some of those dark linear forms are actually irrigation canals and not roads so I included them in my map. It also makes for a fun game component since the use of combat bridges will come into play for sure (look at the screenshoots)

Image
Image

As for the building, I've started on a few of them (like I said my inspiration is Al-Basra since that was the closes I could find in PR) but I guess I will pause for your new ones (could you PM about that I would like to have more info)

Cheers,

Nix

BTW they drive on the right side or left side of the road in Afghanistan? I looked at your tutorial and I wanted to have those "little details" to be in my map :D
Last edited by |TG-Irr|Nixon on 2011-06-10 23:40, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: 1 question
ledo1222
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re: [Map] Dahla Dam (4km) [WIP]

Post by ledo1222 »

Wow i must admit this map is coming along nicely.

I always knew you could make that Dam!

I can see placing all the statics and Fields will take some time, and once again Good Luck!
-The Mods cant Silence me!
-Its all a Conspiracy all OF IT!
-Boys get the duck tape ready..... Umm.....

Been palying PR:ARMA2 since 0.1v beta
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Rhino
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re: [Map] Dahla Dam (4km) [WIP]

Post by Rhino »

|TG-Irr|Nixon wrote:I spent about half a day doing research before I started the map and those pictures where the best I could find (I have all of them in high-res like the last one).
Would be good if you could upload the highrez pics in a .zip for me :D
|TG-Irr|Nixon wrote:Information and images on the area is quite scarce: I wanted a road layout but Google, Yahoo and Bing don't even have this village on their maps! After looking at the satellite images I found out that some of those dark linear forms are actually irrigation canals and not roads so I included them in my map. It also makes for a fun game component since the use of combat bridges will come into play for sure (look at the screenshoots)

Image
Image
Ye cool, although I can't say I like the use of waterplanes for them, you need to look into getting custom ones made with custom LM UVs but you can put that into your long term plans, but good to get it done before you do your lightmaps.

Also for your canals, epically in the narrow parts you can use the small bridges I made a few years ago, although I plan on optimizing them some what soon: New Afghan Compound Bridges - Project Reality Forums

|TG-Irr|Nixon wrote:As for the building, I've started on a few of them (like I said my inspiration is Al-Basra since that was the closes I could find in PR) but I guess I will pause for your new ones (could you PM about that I would like to have more info)
Ye rgr, can't give you any more info right now sorry but keep an eye on my PR Blog and the highlights section ;)

|TG-Irr|Nixon wrote:BTW they drive on the right side or left side of the road in Afghanistan? I looked at your tutorial and I wanted to have those "little details" to be in my map :D
Lol its quite funny you mention that as Afghanistan is a wired one, as some of the country is LHD, and some of it is RHD. I think your area is LHD thou, check the map:

Right- and left-hand traffic - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

File:Countries driving on the left or right.svg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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|TG-Irr|Nixon
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re: [Map] Dahla Dam (4km) [WIP]

Post by |TG-Irr|Nixon »

[R-DEV]Rhino wrote:Would be good if you could upload the highrez pics in a .zip for me :D

Ye cool, although I can't say I like the use of waterplanes for them, you need to look into getting custom ones made with custom LM UVs but you can put that into your long term plans, but good to get it done before you do your lightmaps.
I'll try do that soon, but an even better reference (since most of my pics the buildings are quite far away) would be War | RECORDED HISTORY WITH PICTURES :)

That site is a gold mine when it comes to high-res war pics

I would also suggest:

http://www.combatcamera.forces.gc.ca/ne ... ind_eng.np

Cheers,

Nix

BTW can you hook me up with someone that could make me giant/optimized water planes?
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