APCs Under Appreciated

[Vicious302]

I have noticed a large under appreciation for APCs and coordination with infantry. Too often it seems that infantry think they have the right to boss around an APC when they are in it... and not bossy enough when they are not in them. Even on the SISU server (65+ Players) on maps where there is multiple APCs and limited transport, infantry seems to insist on walking for days or getting a ride with a helo. This affects a team negatively in two aspects... 1. You can't help the APC, 2. The APC can't help you.

What I reccomend to more infantry squads: Set up an APC + INF squad consisting of 2 crewman + 1 officer + 5 soldiers (SISU 8-Man Setup). And Secondly, infantry be patient... just because you are not actually doing anything doesn't mean your not accomplishing anything. When an APC is moving, stay in it. When they stop..get out... move 5-15m from APC and when APC moves again, re-enter the APC.

This is a call to the community to step up your gameplay level. I switched to this mod after many years of semi-realistc gameplay mods only to find out that infantry still act like they have "iddqd" on with rambo and chuck norris as their squad mates. Slow down, ride with the vehciles. AND ON KOKAN PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE STOP IGNORING THE VCP AND BRADLEY!!!!

[Nebsif]

Thats one of the reasons people dont like Wanda Shan, every1 is spoiled and used to 30 sec flights from A to B. =(

[Smiddey723]

there are many reasons why infantry dont work closely with APC's. The main one being that it doesnt work

and i dont think people ignore the bradley at the VCP i think its just the fact that there is no spawn point or anything down there+ is close to tali main

[karambaitos]

i think its because they have a tendency to blow up as soon as someone farts, and/or looks at them angrily, the only IFV i like is the BMP-3 because everything around it just dies so there is nothing to kill you

[Kingy]

Generally speaking I tend to find that there's a lot more communication between INF and APC's on insurgency in comparison to AAS, probably because there's a lot more accurate and long range AT on AAS that keeps the APC's paranoid all round.

[Saarna]

Copy pasting an earlier post of mine:

I'm sick of hearing people argue that APCs should be used as battle taxi's because PR has been designed, from the ground up, for this not to work properly. Without a massive overhaul using an APC as a transport is a great way to endanger a lot of lives and use a tiny amount of an asset's potential.

I'll join those people by disagreeing with you. Disclaimer, no, I don't think PR's refocus on APC's was the best move a couple years back, and I don't think so now, mainly due to the hardcoded players. However, given that on many maps there simply is not enough transportation available without the use of the battle taxis one can either sit on their hands complaining, or make the best out of what is available.

First of all, where has this idea of APC's being absolute death traps come from? I personally can't even remember the last time I've been killed with either a squad in the boot, or being hauled somewhere myself. Sure an APC's a bigger and more enticing target than trucks for example, but how easy is it to kill one steaming full speed ahead anyway? A truck's occupants may be killed with a lucky shot from any weapon, where an APC requires one or more hits from AT weapons that have to be predeployed to be even ready to fire, much less to hit the speeding target.

Secondly, this subject is far from the black and white "APC's are either light tanks or completely slaved to infantry" thinking. Realistic military doctrines completely aside, those two roles can be combined easily and effectively, on the game's terms and none other.

Actively transporting infantry doesn't mean you'll have to disengage and run back to base as soon as the previous squad's out the hatch. Barring the occasional (and usually commander ordered) mad rush from squad to squad there's plenty of time to present your firepower on the field, while still being available for transport should the need arise. Likewise supporting the infantry or the team in general doesn't come to either running amok disregarding the rest of the team or parkin your APC right next to the nearest infantry squad and waiting for the enemy to muster their AT.

APC's, and any other armored and/or armed vehicle for that matter can be effectively used as a force multiplier, either laying in ambush or loitering the area, nonetheless ready to pounce any target the infantry units are engaging. With the target's precise location known, and them probably engaged in a firefight a vehicle can just swoop in and take out the whole bunch (especially effective with the AAVP's on Muttrah) in one go before high-tailing it back to station, or where ever it might be required.

[goguapsy]

Hmm, I normally use helo trans (if I find convenient, of course) in large maps because they are really fast, go in, go out.

APCs are super noisy, but don't have the super speed to compensate for it (choppers is even louder, but is fast).

Generally speaking I tend to find that there's a lot more communication between INF and APC's on insurgency in comparison to AAS, probably because there's a lot more accurate and long range AT on AAS that keeps the APC's paranoid all round.

^This. On Insurgency maps, I normally prefer APCs for their fire support. On AAS, it's a bullet (and rocket) magnet.

[Rudd]

I love having an APC close support my squad, on the 128 server I tend to have one inside my squad since the squads are larger, yes I agree there could be improvement, however I definately think that when the infantry and vehicle are working together properly and cautiously then its awesome.

Just remember to scout for eachother, and if you feel threatened just shoot and pull back until you feel safe...

[L4gi]

I think the main reason for APCs being under appreciated is because they are so damn easy to take out.

"Oh look, I just took out a full APC".

[TheComedian]

I wouldn't want the whole enemy team to know where my squad is. They are just so damn noisy.

And besides, the enemy will know there is a full squad at the drop because APCs never transport snipers or 2 man squads. With the helos you never know what the passengers are.

If there was an APC and blackhawk waiting in base, I would take the blackhawk ride. It's fast, and nobody will take the binocs out just to see where he will land.

[Wo0Do0]

I think the main reason for APCs being under appreciated is because they are so damn easy to take out.

"Oh look, I just took out a full APC".

L4gi has a point.

We shouldn't give APC a zoom option. In addition, the amount of Anti-Tank measures should be limited also.

Giving APC the ability to zoom just makes them portable HMGS, thus making them overpowered.

On the other hand, the amount of ANTI-Tank is absurd, APC avoid supporting infantry because of how easy it is to kill an APC. (INS/AAS)

Instead of asking whether this is realistic, first ask if this is balanced or promotes better gameplay.

[Brainlaag]

I think the main reason for APCs being under appreciated is because they are so damn easy to take out.

"Oh look, I just took out a full APC".

Only if you are crewing it.

Nah the biggest issue IMO is that people use APCs way too often as light-tanks and when they "support" infantry they take that as an invite to charge into the enemies position. Supporting can also be achieved from fairly long distances, you don't have to stick on the bloody infantry squad. If people avoid that, damn, you would see that APCs can actually deal a lot more damage than tanks.

Think about it, a armored vehicle with AT capabilites, shitload of HE amunition and 6 wankers in its back (Or 2 APCs and 8 wankers on the 128 Server), BEAUTIFUL. Thats a win-win, bi-winning situation.

[Kingy]

I think adding several smoke screens to the driver instead of the gunner would help APC survivability a lot, making it possible to change between the crates and smoke rounds similarly to how the logistic truck switches between csb's and crates, at least this way they might not get ripped apart by INF quite so easily if the driver uses them right.
Then again this would be virtually useless for vehicles with no thermal imaging

[Cassius]

there are many reasons why infantry dont work closely with APC's. The main one being that it doesnt work

and i dont think people ignore the bradley at the VCP i think its just the fact that there is no spawn point or anything down there+ is close to tali main

It works well enough for MEC on Muttrah. It works everytime I have seen it being done. Of course there are the instances, like on Muttrah the other day, when a frontline formed across the double roads going east west. All of the Mec infantery was on the east side pushing up north. The APC did the same, but all the way to the west side, where nobody was AND a tow was marked on the map. Of course the APC got killed. WTF.

[L4gi]

Only if you are crewing it.

You Italians are so funny.

[DenvH]

Nah the biggest issue IMO is that people use APCs way too often as light-tanks and when they "support" infantry they take that as an invite to charge into the enemies position.

Agreed, it has been like that on every server when I started playing PR around 0.5. Back then the lack of communication was a big problem. Nowadays we got mumble though, and if you ask me it should be forced on every server. It makes everything 100x easier and al it takes is starting a second program and making sure you are in the right channel/team.

Use mumble, join a (half) full server that forces mumble and an APC squad will listen, transport and support you.

[SGT.Ice]

Instead of limiting the AT, maybe give the AT a slight increase in deviation, and the X factor of it just flying off in a random direction if it's an RPG. That might help, I see no reason to limit AT, sometimes APCs go on rampages and go 60+ kills without dieing. It's all about the crew and the teams. You can only balance so much, then it's up to the people playing.

[Elektro]

I think adding several smoke screens to the driver instead of the gunner would help APC survivability a lot

Indeed and add more smoke while your there. There is no better feeling than being surrounded by a wall of smoke when you have thermal imaging.

[goguapsy]

L4gi has a point.

We shouldn't give APC a zoom option. In addition, the amount of Anti-Tank measures should be limited also.

Giving APC the ability to zoom just makes them portable HMGS, thus making them overpowered.

On the other hand, the amount of ANTI-Tank is absurd, APC avoid supporting infantry because of how easy it is to kill an APC. (INS/AAS)

Instead of asking whether this is realistic, first ask if this is balanced or promotes better gameplay.

Project Reality.

I see where you are coming from, but removing fundamental APCs' characteristics is not the way to go, IMO.

[Brainlaag]

You Italians are so funny.

Why do you believe reality is funny?