Suggestions Management Team

[dtacs]

Brief

I have noticed that with a number of different suggestions I have made, the threads are not publicly released even though they may have been accepted. Drawing attention to the suggestion Removal of the Incendiary Toss, noting that its unrealistic that a soldier would throw an incendiary grenade (a dangerous and specific weapon/tool) so far, which lead to the destruction of caches in an unrealistic manner.

After a number of days, I asked Rudd 'Rudd' Ruddman what was going on, and the thread hadn't been approved for discussion, but rather accepted and the toss was drastically reduced (IIRC, check dev changelogs).

This is nobodies fault, it may simply have not been checked as the team in its entirety has lots to deal with.I would assume that there is a number of cases in addition to mine where some threads have been accepted without public discussion, or just lost to the sands of time.

Purpose

With the PM'ing/alternate contact (Xfire) of players who have made the threads, they are left knowing that the team has made proper deliberations on the suggestion deeming it worthy for the game, a re-suggestion, or OK for public discussion in order to get a wider audience presenting ideas.

This may seem like reinventing the wheel, but I can tell you with honesty from a players perspective it is really great knowing that your suggestion's destiny has not been left to secrecy.

Having a dedicated R-COM member also leaves the MOD and dev teams to focus on more important objectives.

Implementation

I am by no means saying I am the ideal candidate for this position, the person (or team) managing the Suggestions area would have to have a vast knowledge of the game and be proficient in identifying resuggestions and those which are not possible in the engine period, such as VOIP between vehicles, or lengths of twine deploying from flying machines on which soldiers can slide down. What were those called again?

Unless this topic is opened for public discussion I unfortunately won't be able to view it, but if anyone has any comments on it just PM or Xfire me.

Cheers

[Bringerof_D]

i would assume that a genuinely good suggestion would require no discussion. Particularly in the case of your incendiary device topic mentioned, those should not be thrown...ever. There should be no need for discussion on a topic such as that. it is realistic, forces realistic behavior, and has no negative impact on game play other than making it a whole lot more challenging to play as blufor >

And i like it being hard on blufor, thats why i always try to get on US team for Korengal. Against a good INS team that map is a super intense hell hole.

in any case you should take it as a compliment. it means you make good suggestions that are well supported by evidence and makes perfect sense and are not unreasonable to implement.

Now when i say reasonable i mean a lot of people ask for 100% realism, however they forget the very nature of the platform which is in itself NOT real. Thus 100% realism is not possible. For realism to breed realistic behavior it MUST be 100%. and without fear, stress, fatigue, taking a real breath int he environment, feeling pain, feeling heat, smelling the gun powder, even if the deves made everything react in a completely realistic way we will only ever reach 40% realism because most of it is in the very experience of doing it for real.

[hobbnob]

I think the PR team did once have a sort of public relations department (lol PR's PR ) but it fell through for whatever reason. You might want to try finding that out before forming an R-COM team.

I say 'team' instead of individual because I think it would take 2 or 3 people to hold this down. People have real life to contend with, and I think the extra couple of people would be a good safeguard against any problems.

[Jorgee!]

Would be cool if when they reject a thread, they PM the OP at least, giving him the reason of why it was rejected.

[TheComedian]

I also made a small suggestion a few months ago about adding more CO waypoints and/or making multiple colours and there was no feedback.

I'd certainly wish to know where I've done wrong so the mistakes can be corrected in a future suggestion.

Though I am not particularly troubled about it, still, a simple 1 sentence PM would be nice in the form of : " We thank you for your contribution however your suggestion lacks concrete arguments."

Or the likes.
Greets.

[hobbnob]

This is why I think the dedicated relations team should be implemented. The devs have enough on their plate already and us, the community, are asking for more.

Personally I'd be happy to take this on. I spend a few hours on the PC every day and have more than enough time to PM random people in relation to their suggestions.

[ankyle62]

I dont see why they couldnt have one of the many forum mods organize it a bit better. I noticed they have time to give out random infractions for stupid stuff(violations of rules still, but come on).

Maybe have a forum mod appointed as a relay between devs for the suggestion forum.

[Wicca]

Sir lord of the moderators high commander of the Suggestion forum

Seriously though. Cyberzomby, cheditor etc. The previous guys. Cant they reapply or smt?

[Dev1200]

Would be cool if when they reject a thread, they PM the OP at least, giving him the reason of why it was rejected.

Most of the time they are good at giving their reason for locking the thread.


However, a post that just stops getting looked at, even if it is a good idea, does need feedback.


If we had a team of a few people look through, filter these suggestions, then bring them up to the DEVs, that would be excellent. Then the DEVs could give their take on it, then the team (or themselves, whatever) posts in the thread knowing of the suggestion's fate.

[Dunehunter]

The previous system led to a flood of useless suggestions, making it hard to find the good ones. Even with clear warnings people kept on making re-suggestions, asking for AC-130s or suggesting blatantly hard-coded stuff. Moderators were forced to be reactive, which led to situations where entire pages of suggestions were locked. One solution we tried was only allowing people to post suggestions after they reached a certain post count...so they started posting them in General Discussion.

After an internal discussion, we decided to move towards a system where threads need to be approved by a team member (all Moderators, and I think all Developers are capable of doing this). There have been changes to team policy to ensure that threads don't "slip between the cracks", but I have to admit that this is still something we have to work on.

One of the primary motivations for this change was to reduce the workload on team members in dealing with suggestions where if we are lucky one of fifty is useful, so moving to a system where we contact each poster individually would be counter-productive. I just checked, and all of the suggestions posted have been viewed. Further suggestions for the suggestions system are welcome though.

[Ninjam3rc]

I would like some sort of system the OP suggested, I'd like to know why reasonable unsuggested suggestions might be ignored :/

[Rudd]

I would like some sort of system the OP suggested, I'd like to know why reasonable unsuggested suggestions might be ignored :/

they aren't ignored, cuz somone still has to read them to determine if they are good or not

they are discarded if they are bad, not ignored.

if your suggestion doesnt get in to the next build its because its either, hardcoded, unwanted, requires too many resources, resuggested, is being worked on but isn't finished or is just plain stupid. Pick whichever one you find most comforting...the result is the same.

[TheComedian]

Pick whichever one you find most comforting...the result is the same.

This way its like sending your child to the army and not know whether he was killed, still alive or somwhere in between. Its the best metaphor i can think of because its getting late and im tired.

[Rhino]

I believe that vBulletin can somehow show only the topics that have been posted in a certain forum to only the admins/moderators and the person who posted the topic, might ask the admins if they can implement it so people can see what happens to there topics after being posted.

[Rudd]

This way its like sending your child to the army and not know whether he was killed, still alive or somwhere in between. Its the best metaphor i can think of because its getting late and im tired.

please get some sleep and think of a far more approrpiate comparison...

people could really take offence from that one

[badmojo420]

please get some sleep and think of a far more approrpiate comparison...

people could really take offence from that one

I take some offense to the fact that we take the time to submit suggestions, but we're not important enough to get a response.

You're basically saying we'll know if our son survived combat, when his medals arrive. Otherwise assume he's gone, and don't ask about him again.

I thought his comparison was good.

[Rudd]

^ please find someone who has actually lost their son in combat and ask them, I think you'd get a slap in the face for equating a man dying for his country and never seeing his loved ones again, with a forum suggestion.

Here is a glimpse in to the suggestion forum....oh look...someone is suggesting blood again.

Now, do I continue working on my map for the next major PR release, or do I send this guy a PM?

decisions, decisions...

[badmojo420]

Or just keep working on your map and encourage a system like Rhino suggested.

And yeah, someone who has lost a son might not like the comparison, but that doesn't make it invalid. He used that comparison to express that no matter how absurd others think it is, some of us value our suggestions in the same way a parent would value their sons life. (in the same way, not to the same degree, i'm sure nobody will sacrifice their life for a game suggestion, but i personally have never stopped wondering what happened to a suggestion of mine, and I think a parent with a son at war would never stop wondering what happened to them, if they were denied that information.)

[Dunehunter]

Come on guys, cut it out with the horrible comparisons. Next guy to compare not knowing what happened to his "Hey, think we could get AC-130s in game?" thread and not knowing whether his son is alive or dead gets an infraction.

There is a debate about this within the team forums right now. Basically, the vast majority of suggestions are not viable for inclusion within PR. We are trying to figure out a system where we can find the tiny minority that have promise without increasing the amount of time the team have to spend on it.


One thing you guys have to keep in mind as well: there are 517 pages of suggestions. Just about everything that could be good has been suggested already, which is why we have to deal with a load of re-suggestions and suggestions that are just blatantly silly.