*NwA* UK Reality (Europe)

[lagopus]

I was there, not on your team, but MEC. Not taking any particular side, but there was some discussion before you got booted, and you where told to leave the subject. Wich was going on in allchat. It was not just a "told you so" and the boot.

Beside that, one of the PR-tips is that pilots decide over their aircraft, not any other. And if someone feels pressured to follow orders that they feel is wrong, its bad.

On another note again, before this gets closed. I'm puzzled that PR doesnt have a PR ROE, similar to EA ROE for bf2. A set of rules that applies for players AND admins. Where both players and admins have to abide a set of rules set by PR staff.

Server admins in PR seems to have a "IcandowhateverIwantandgetawaywithit badge"
Clanbased servers will always, no matter what have issues with fair administration, thats my experience after 3 years as a BF2 admin with around 4000 bans dealed from me alone, and that was as an admin in a bf2community not in a clanbased server. We also had a personneldepartment handling adminabuse etc.. That was a much smaller community than PR if we count members.

[Pirate]

On another note again, before this gets closed. I'm puzzled that PR doesnt have a PR ROE, similar to EA ROE for bf2. A set of rules that applies for players AND admins. Where both players and admins have to abide a set of rules set by PR staff.

I think such a thing would be hard to enforce, but I hope the DEV recognise that admins on some servers are abusing their powers. I myself witnessed an incident on the 128-player server
where a player was tempbanend for fossing a friendly fob. It quickly turned out that the admin was a bit too triggerhappy in banning, since the other team quickly admitted that it was they who fossed the fob and the friendly merely was close. However, since the player got (rightfully) pissed and sweared at the admin, his temp ban was turned permanent.

Since it's unique position, admins of the 128 player server should behave decently and not expect players to behave 100% of the time when they themselves make mistakes that cause player misbehaviour. I believe that R-DEV Matrox was there at the time and he mentioned something about making a post about that incident and I bloody hope he did.

[lagopus]

I think such a thing would be hard to enforce, but I hope the DEV recognise that admins on some servers are abusing their powers.

Im not so sure about that, they have the power to withdraw server license, wich I have seen happen on a few occation's. Cant say that any of them was related to admin abuse. They simply need to have a staff that handles such cases.
On servers with both BR and chatlogs available it will be easy to find out what happened. Unfortunately, very few server's have BR.
If there was a PR ROE, administration would be easier, since everybody had to follows the rules. Today, each servers have its own rules, and its difficult to be updated since they differs from server to server. F.ex If there was a equal asset rule for all servers, all players would adjust and there would be less bickering on the servers. There could of course be some "in house rules" that each server could decide themselves. F.ex main base attack or not.

[Pirate]

Yes, but how many transgressions are needed before license is revoked? Not every situation is a clear example of admin abuse or not + I think everyone might start crying about abuse if they make such a thing.

[Wicca]

The person who was temporary banned from the 128 server was zahj i think. And he was unbanned 10 min later, after the admin had spoken to some people about it.

As for admin abuse. This is something we as a community must discuss. But on what terms and where is another story.

If a Moderator can start a thread, with set out rules. We can more easily discuss this matter. As it is very very required for PR and its members to continue to grow and our community to remain strong.

[lagopus]

Yes, but how many transgressions are needed before license is revoked? Not every situation is a clear example of admin abuse or not + I think everyone might start crying about abuse if they make such a thing.

True, not every situation will be a clear example. But the set of rules the players must follow on all servers will make it easier for an admin to make a descision. what kind of reactions that follows is something that needs a discussion. Punishing the server or the admin?

PR are indeed more complex than vBF2, and i can understand that administrating a pr server is more difficult than a vBF2. Still, the usual response "find another server to play on, or make your own server" is simply getting old. If a manufacturer gets complaints on their product, the wont say; "buy from our competitor then". They would want to improve it. If I reach a point where I find that I dont want to play because server admins are incompetent, I would leave PR and PR would loose a player. If enough players do so, PR would loose its playerbase, and where is the meaning of continuing improving PR then? Nobody want's to play a good game if the serverprovider is an ****.

[PoisonBill]

Greg, I was in your squad and I never really understood what happened. There was loads of chat and you where talking allot on voip, after my heli was taken out I saw you get temp banned. I never actually saw you get a real warning, so I do not know why the punishment was so harsh. I was once on a round where nwa members used incendiary grenades against a pair of mortars I built, the reason was that they where not allowed to be used because of 15 v 15 player limit. They told me this and I obeyed, told my squad members and they understood. However when our team had 14 active players and the other had 17 or 18, we started asking if we could get an apc to help us and give us some support. After the chat was spammed about the apc units who where in between us and main base, a guy from nwa used incendiarys and burned our mortar, but as far as I know, the mortar wasn't even in use, they pretty much just burned them cuz they could. This was also on an early round, like 14:00, later or earlier on this round, one nwa guy joined my squad but left because we where too noobish for him, while half of our squad was taken by an active techie car, he wanted too build a tow for talking out the cache, but he got sniped, many times, so he left. I really should start remembering names when I play, hate telling these kind stories without putting the blame on someone.

But, even though some nwa members are a bit thick, some are good lads, so too speak. I've had good rounds with a nwa player called Scotty, also had a bad round with an other nwa player, think he was called speedy (Our squad leader wasn't the best). What I'm trying too say is that there are many nice players among the nwa players, if you talk about this on their page I'm sure you will get unbanned, it wasn't a fair ban anyways. Also, there is shortage of good pr players, banning you will only make the merk servers a tad better. Their members are good, but some people who join are pros in making pr look bad.

[Kingy]

I think the PR-DEV's have more than enough to do already without babysitting every server when someone ******* about something.
Generally speaking though if a player or admin is being a prick, stay cool, getting angry won't help and try and explain why, if that fails ignore them. Generally people get kicked because they get pissed off and become offensive

[BoZo_135]

Pirate, the only reason that guy was temp banned in the first place was because two friendlies (non-admins) thought he fossed his own fob and reported him.

[Brainlaag]

I think such a thing would be hard to enforce, but I hope the DEV recognise that admins on some servers are abusing their powers. I myself witnessed an incident on the 128-player server
where a player was tempbanend for fossing a friendly fob. It quickly turned out that the admin was a bit too triggerhappy in banning, since the other team quickly admitted that it was they who fossed the fob and the friendly merely was close. However, since the player got (rightfully) pissed and sweared at the admin, his temp ban was turned permanent.

Since it's unique position, admins of the 128 player server should behave decently and not expect players to behave 100% of the time when they themselves make mistakes that cause player misbehaviour. I believe that R-DEV Matrox was there at the time and he mentioned something about making a post about that incident and I bloody hope he did.

You do realize he got unbanned a few mintues later. Anyway agreeing with some of the posters on setting up a feedback section on the PR forums.

[killonsight95]

kingy the PR DEVs could employ someone from one of PRs many servers who is an admin or retired admin to run the situation and we could have a sub section in the server feedback section which is set-out a lot like the bug reporting area.

A system of if say 25 legitment complaints were reached the server would be taken down for a month or similar depending etc.
I'll think something up tomorrow, if the DEVs are interested i'll happily make one and PM it.

[PoisonBill]

Generally people get kicked because they get pissed off and become offensive

In my case, they burned my mortar because I became defensive. They didn't trust me and they felt that the server was loosing control. Some admins punish random players some times, just too show that they can, just too keep control over a tense environment, which they created themselves. I play pr too have fun, but when the admins start too harass, I lose faith in this game. Me sitting on an i7 pc, I can play other games, but I don't. I like the environment which pr has, but when drunk pissed off admins (including all servers) starts bullying players, I tend too leave, weep and play some boring game. How much do I like pr? Well, I'm playing it instead of swtor right now.

I play pr in search of that perfect round (It's almost like a drug I guess), finding it is harder with bad admins.

[smiley]

Setting up any kind of standard rule set for all servers just wont work... sorry.

And the reason for this is very obvious. there is no "PR community" this is just wishful thinking.
The truth is that the "PR community" is indeed very fractious. Just read the posts on this forum. "server A is bad while server B is great" or clan A do this while clan B are perfect"

Or how about "maps A,B and C are rubbish, while map D is the best"

The point is, far too much energy and time is wasted on trying to show how how something is better than something else. This imo is very divisive and goes against what the word "community" means to me.

I'm not talking about differing opinions, I'm talking about a young man's need to assert himself by trying to appear superior to his peers. It's human nature, I understand this but I think that many don't, including the people that do it. ( don't worry this will come to you when you grow up)



Now I understand that I probably sound extremely patronising, but take it from an old man, I've seen it happen more times than I care to mention, and the best way to create a community, and make no mistake it takes work not just using a term you think suits best, is to stop arguing over and over about the same minutiae and to keep it simple to start with.
Find out what you agree on and not fixate on what you disagree on and work from there. I have run successful businesses in the past so I think I know what I'm talking about, although no doubt this post will attract lots of mature replies telling me where to go.




It takes a lot more effort to make friends and work with someone than it does to sneer and look down your nose at them, and you would be surprised how far a little politeness will get you. Again that's just human nature at work, but what do I know?

[sell]

its funny how admins are always the bad guys, reminds me at the problem some guys have with the police...

[Gaz]

moving this thread to server feedback, where it belongs. Also merged into the current NWA feedback thread for obvious reasons

[Wicca]

Being an admin isnt as easy as it sounds. Some people dont play, they just admin. Then once they feel things are in order, they start playing again.

This structure that is required in PR. Also requires server discipline, by the players in it. If everyone just played for themselfs, like lonewolfs, PR would not be as popular as it is now. Therefor, being able to admin a server with rules that suits the ones that pay the bills. Is a fair way of doing it atm.

However, there has been alot of cry outs for server abuse, and i feel it is time for us to have a serious conversation about it. Cause if we keep shuffeling these issues away all the time, it will slap us in the face really hard in the end.

I have to say, when i have admin rights, and someone joins my squad, grabs a sniper kit, hat kit or something and then leave. I kick them off the server. That is my way of saying, in PR, we communicate and cooperate. We dont steal from eachother. Other people might see this as wrong.

Therefor, we all must face the fact that the most basic rule in PR. Is, follow orders. Follow SL orders, CO orders and by god. Follow admin orders. That is the basis of our community, weather it is fractured or not.

And what i really think is, if you cant handle it, if you feel unjustfully treated, then stop doing what you are doing in the specific situation. And do something else.

We arent all trained soldiers, ready to die at our leaders command, most of us come home from the job, and just want a good game. Same with the admins. And so respecting their rules, cause they have the power. Is a far more efficient way of creating a good atmosphere than violating them.

That being said, every situation is different, and we cant do everything right all the time, therefor i ask you all for patience and understanding on both sides.

// Wicca out

[Eddiereyes909]

Is there a rule that says one cannot spawn on unknown caches? I'm unaware if there is. It isn't on here.

[speedhound1-WYD-]

not a rule as such more that it comes under teamwork, for example someone spawns at an unkown cache and starts firing RPG's, then thats considered a lack of teamwork and might be kicked form the server, however, they are almost always warned etc of their behaviour prior to any kick.

at some other comments here about admins kicking/banning for all sorts of petty small things you should walk a mile in our shoes, what might seem like a petty thing to you might be serious griefing to others, any idea that admins simply go around banning because they can is an argument based on a false premise.
i've played on most servers out there and i've never seen that happen, might happen but it must be very rare certainly not something to base a generic argument on.

@ Poison bill, yeah that was an awful round, but the bit were the SL just left his medic to get cut up in the river and run off was the straw that broke the camels back..

NwA speedhound

[Curry]

ive to say kashan was awesome. never had such a balanced battle. both teams we're fighting so hard. i dunno how but we managed to win. even if our round start was very bad . the nmy capped both bunkers and had much more coordination so we decieded to defend south village for now. we tried to get some fobs, TOW's and AA's up. then the CAS spawned we wanted to take down both apaches and start our attack at south bunkers with air superiority. but the nmy CAS was hiding pretty well. we shot down one apache and 10min later the other one. i decided that 10min are not enough to get south bunkers so we were keep on holding south village. we lost south village twice but the US was not able to finish the capping. then they shot down our CAS and made our pilots ragequit. i left the CO-post to hitman to get in the CAS with stealth. we finally wanted to start our attack on south bunkers (80mins kashan and no MEC soldier was ever in SB caprange ) the status of the nmy CAS was unknown so were had to look for CAS. we did some cannonruns on inf and hellfired the apache. then nearly the hole MEC team got CTD'ed. fortunately one of the havoks was rearming so we lost only one havoc. tanks and bmp's abandoned in SV. at this points ive say fair play US for not touching any asset in SV or the flag itself. but we managed it to win, may cause our tanks were doing a fantastic job.

i want to say thanks to:

[301] for doing the dirtwork down in SV. the tank and BMP crew. sqd 2 and sqd 5 for doing the infantry. hitman, rob, blip and alchemist for playing on our side. to my guys ofc. and all others in this rounds great team! no one was lone-wolfing, the hole team was holding SV - and we did it! and thx NWA for that battle, cheers for not touching SV / assets after the mass CTD.

after that it was yamalia (32) ive to say that round was boring most of the MEC team stayed for another round so the coordination and the teamplay was alot better than on the RUS side. great map, boring (short) round.

[smiley]

Being an admin isnt as easy as it sounds. Some people dont play, they just admin. Then once they feel things are in order, they start playing again.

This structure that is required in PR. Also requires server discipline, by the players in it. If everyone just played for themselfs, like lonewolfs, PR would not be as popular as it is now. Therefor, being able to admin a server with rules that suits the ones that pay the bills. Is a fair way of doing it atm.

However, there has been alot of cry outs for server abuse, and i feel it is time for us to have a serious conversation about it. Cause if we keep shuffeling these issues away all the time, it will slap us in the face really hard in the end.

I have to say, when i have admin rights, and someone joins my squad, grabs a sniper kit, hat kit or something and then leave. I kick them off the server. That is my way of saying, in PR, we communicate and cooperate. We dont steal from eachother. Other people might see this as wrong.

Therefor, we all must face the fact that the most basic rule in PR. Is, follow orders. Follow SL orders, CO orders and by god. Follow admin orders. That is the basis of our community, weather it is fractured or not.

And what i really think is, if you cant handle it, if you feel unjustfully treated, then stop doing what you are doing in the specific situation. And do something else.

We arent all trained soldiers, ready to die at our leaders command, most of us come home from the job, and just want a good game. Same with the admins. And so respecting their rules, cause they have the power. Is a far more efficient way of creating a good atmosphere than violating them.

That being said, every situation is different, and we cant do everything right all the time, therefor i ask you all for patience and understanding on both sides.

// Wicca out

Nice post as always Wicca, but unfortunately will probably just be ignored.