MBT Smoke Concealment

[Sneak Attack]

Just wondering why the smoke that the tank drivers can pop doesnt block thermals in PR like it does in real life. The way the smoke works right now I find to be usually pointless (not always but usually) because it only really blocks foot solders view and they are the least of a tanks worries. Other tanks and TOW emplacements are the real worry and the smoke does nothing to protect against them because they can see right through it with thermals even though that should not be the case.
Having thermal proof smoke would also blind the drivers thermals with the current setup but Id rather be unable to see for a second and able to back down a hill unnoticed then have my aggressor watch my every move and alert his buddies of my plans. Not to mention its realistic which is kind of the name of the game with this mod.

[Spec]

If it's realistic, I agree. Tank smoke is too awesome to be near-useless.

But: This be suggestion outside suggestion box. Mods gonna be angry

[Rudd]

Please post sources regarding teh thermal blocking nature of tank smoke, that'll make your thread far more interesting and useful

[Rhino]

Would need the MAs to confirm but I'm pretty damn sure that it is realistic for thermals to be able to see though "popped smoke".

How ever the Challenger 2 can generate smoke though injecting fuel into its exhausts which can block thermals in r/l.

[crot]

Its a matter of logic, no? Anything that gives off heat is seen through thermals hence the name, does the smoke emit heat? Or am I a noob on this subject?

[Rudd]

Rhino;1624639']Would need the MAs to confirm but I'm pretty damn sure that it is realistic for thermals to be able to see though "popped smoke".

How ever the Challenger 2 can generate smoke though injecting fuel into its exhausts which can block thermals in r/l.

I thought they did that on top gear and could still see that jeep?

[Truism]

Tanks can create smoke screens by dumping fuel onto their exhaust stacks (or similar) and can "pop" smoke as you see in PR using 40mm WP dispensers (which can also mount HE for fucking shit up if it's close) (other smoke popping options exist primarily for LoaC/Blue on Blue reasons and don't block thermals).

The WP burns in the air as it falls down and creates the smoke, as I understand it, this blocks thermals.

[Rhino]

[quote=""'[R-DEV"]Rudd;1624652']I thought they did that on top gear and could still see that jeep?[/quote]

What Clarkson actually said when he was being smoked up in this method was something along the lines of when "Soon my V8 will just be a red hot glow on his thermals". You really shouldn't believe everything Clarkson says

I remember speaking to [R-DEV]StuartCADT at the last Dev meet up in Lulworth about this and I can remember him telling me that the smoke generated by the CR2 can block thermals which also makes sense because its generated by combustion, its hot and as such, should be able to block smoke rather than smoke generated by a chemical reaction which dose not produce heat (which is what the smoke grenades do afaik).

But again, will need the MAs to confirm all this for me but I'm pretty sure I'm correct.


[quote="Truism""]Tanks can create smoke screens by dumping fuel onto their exhaust stacks (or similar) [/quote]

Not that many tanks out there have this feature.

[Anderson29]

well make mortar smoke thermal vision proof cuz mortars dont have smoke rds irl they have wp. and my logic would think if smoke is hot(white phosphorous hot).....and heat appears in thermals, then wouldn't this heat screen the body heat signatures behind it? "im not a smart man......but" im not Forrest gump neither but really i dont know...the only fact in this statement is the first sentence.

[Gotrol]

The system of dumping fuel to create thermoproof smoke was used in russian and soviet tanks since T-55. However, the smoke grenades loaded onto newest tanks have a aluminium-chloride-phosphor mixture, which, I believe, can block thermals.

I am sure MA's know what they are doing, but these are my 2c.

[Zrix]

I think having tank smoke block thermals would benefit the game. Would add some more tactical opportunities and variety to the armor combat, and hopefully make it more than whoever fires first wins.

Please post sources regarding teh thermal blocking nature of tank smoke, that'll make your thread far more interesting and useful

The smoke system used on both the Leclerc and the Swedish Leopard 2 variant(GALIX) can supposedly fire several different rounds, including;

...munitions that includes the GALIX 4 self-protection round, the GALIX 6 infrared decoy round, the GALIX 7 illumination round, the GALIX 13 multiband smoke round...
http://articles.janes.com/articles/Jane ... rance.html

I would assume that by multiband they mean different spectrums, which should include IR.

A recent replacement for the M250 smoke-grenade system on some Abrams tanks is the state-of-the-art M6 countermeasure dispenser. Besides firing smoke, the M6 can also fire flares that can decoy heat-seeking missiles.
http://books.google.com/books?id=M1P6jT ... er&f=false

Also, seen here are Abrams firing smoke. There are 2 views through the thermal sight, and the smoke appears to be blocking it.


But even if it's only semi-realistic I think it would be a nice addition to the mod. For balance it would probably have to be added to all tanks, and not only to those that has it IRL. Well, maybe not the Militia tank.

[Brainlaag]

I think having tank smoke block thermals would benefit the game. Would add some more tactical opportunities and variety to the armor combat, and hopefully make it more than whoever fires first wins.

That, my dear Sir, is a lie.

I agree, even being only semi-realistic (as I have no clue about this subject) could gameplay benefit much of it and, as some others have stated, add a bit of tactical spice to the dull tanks battles right now.

[Zrix]

I think having tank smoke block thermals would benefit the game. Would add some more tactical opportunities and variety to the armor combat, and hopefully make it more than whoever fires first wins.

That, my dear Sir, is a lie.

A personal opinion can't be a lie.

[Tarranauha200]

For balance it would probably have to be added to all tanks, and not only to those that has it IRL.

NO DONT DO IT!

[Truism]

Not that many tanks out there have this feature.

Abrams can also, but I was just generally talking about contempory AFV capabilities. I know for a fact that white phos smoke screens block thermals. I tried looking for a video on youtube that shows what it looks like, but couldn't find it.

Imagine a curtain of tiny fire crackers flaring down in the frontal arc of the AFV leaving dense white smoke as they fall.

[Sneak Attack]

T-90 and M1 both have thermal
Concealment

The turret is fitted with two six-barreled smoke grenade launchers (USMC M1A1s use an eight-barreled version). These can create a thick smoke that blocks both vision and thermal imaging. The engine is also equipped with a smoke generator that is triggered by the driver. When activated, fuel is sprayed into the hot turbine exhaust, creating the thick smoke. However, due to change from diesel as a primary fuel to the use of JP-8, this system is disabled on most Abrams today because of a slightly elevated risk of fire damage to the engine compartment. ( right off of wiki)

T-90 The third tier is a Shtora-1 (Russian: Штора-1 or "curtain" in English) countermeasures suite, produced by Elektromashina of Russia. This system includes two electro-optical/IR "dazzlers" on the front of the turret(which gives the distinct Red Eyes), four Laser warning receivers, two 3D6 aerosol grenade discharging systems and a computerized control system. The Shtora-1 warns the tank's crew when the tank has been 'painted' by a weapon-guidance laser and allows the crew to slew the turret to face the threat. The infrared jammer, the TShU1-7 EOCMDAS, jams the semiautomatic command to line of sight (SACLOS) guidance system of some anti-tank guided missiles. The aerosol grenades are automatically launched after Shtora detects that it has been painted. The aerosol grenades are used to mask the tank from laser rangefinders and designators as well as the optics of other weapons systems. (right off wiki)

U.S. Vehicle Grenade Launchers
if you scroll down to ammunition you will see the different types of grenades and what they block against. It also shows how long they take to get a good cloud going and how long it will last.

The fuel on the engine feature would be an awesome addition too, it wouldnt stop thermals at all because its just unburnt fuel vapor without any heavy particles in it to block and defuse heat signatures but would be good for blanketing a larger area for a squad advance or someting.
Id say all the tanks should have the thermal blocking smoke, its a pretty simple concept that Im sure post 1950s tanks have.

[RememberTheAlamo]

I thought they did that on top gear and could still see that jeep?

Then why didn't the challenger shoot Clarkson right away

[DankE_SPB]

I tried looking for a video on youtube that shows what it looks like, but couldn't find it.

at start and at 0.45


?

Most of modern tanks have an option of thermal blocking smoke, but how many tanks are equipped with it is a big question.

[Mellanbror]

Agree with Zrix post. Even if only some use it IRL, give it to all modern armour.

[Truism]

DankE_SPB;1626563']at start and at 0.45


?

Most of modern tanks have an option of thermal blocking smoke, but how many tanks are equipped with it is a big question.

Looks a tiny bit different on the systems we use, but that's pretty damned close to it.