Question/Clearance needed: Cache Hitbox - IED, Claymore

[KiloJules]

Hey guys,

As usual I searched a bit but since this https://www.realitymod.com/forum/f26-pr ... sives.html is super old and outdated of some sort I made a new thread.

I would really need insights of a guy who knows what he is talking about

So...since I wanted to use the AP kit more often (especially as Taliban as cache def) I wanted to check out if I could accidentally blow it up myself...

I placed about 100 claymores in the last hour and now there are way more questions then before.

But first what I discovered - note my pro paint skills

- It appears that a claymore facing directly into the center of the cache DOES NOT hurt it!

"claymore direct.png"

- But when you place it so that it hits the cache on its outer parts it will hurt it.

"claymore side.png"

- Then again placing it diagonal around the cache it won't hurt it.

"claymore diagonal.png"

I tried to test all the directions with the claymore placed in different distances to the cache,
could not find any difference though!

- It takes about 8-12 of the "right" placed ones to destroy a cache
(so not really an option for blufor)
It seems that grouped explosions do more damage then multiple single in a row but
that seems just silly and I am not too sure about that.

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- It appears that the cache has different armor values on different parts of it.
- It appears that the center of the cache is invulnerable to the blast

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- If it has different armor values could that have an impact on other devices as well?
I mean if I hit a cache with multiple phosphorus nades, could it be that those do
different damage as well, depending on where I drop them on it?
(Gotta start another test )

- If so, it is useful to have the lighter armor on the outside of it? Regarding a vehicle
spaming HEAT rounds into a building and killing the cache without even hitting itself nor
the wall right next to it?
That happened yesterday when an LAV shot a couple of HEATs into the doorway of a
cache room on Fallujah West. On another test today I happened to have the same cache
and so I could analyze what happened yesterday. The impacts of the rounds were about
7m away from the cache on an opposite wall and destroyed it with like 10-20 rounds.

"APC cache.png"

- The small pipebomb IEDs, do they really do no damage at all, regardless where I put
them on/around the cache?

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Okay, I really hope that:
a) this helps somebody to avoid blowing up a cache accidentally
b) somebody (DEVs, CONs, BOTs, idk...) can help me clear this out!

Thanks for reading!

[Dev1200]

This may be the case of some caches requiring more than 3 incendiaries to destroy.


Although I've seen 1 claymore destroy a cache through walls.. o_o

[Mikemonster]

KiloJules you are very, very tedious and very very methodical, that much is obvious.

But I am finding your posts fascinating. You are a PR physicist in the same way that Einstein studied the universe, etc.

Can't help but read your posts in fascination with an odd look on my face.

[Zoddom]

about the IEDs:
the team-damage has been minimized but they should still hurt the cache, so better not spam 30 of em around it.

what im thinking about: what are actually the outer parts of the cache? its 3D so is the top of the cache outside too?

i think this can only be cleared by a dev whos got an idea of damage meshes or whatever theyre called.

[-.-Maverick-.-]

I would also like some clearance on that, because a lot of times I need to waste more then 4 foses on one cache to blow it up and its really annoying.

[KiloJules]

You are a PR physicist in the same way that Einstein studied the universe, etc.

I am trying to be a teacher for physics and math (teaching in German though ) at one point, when I finally finish my studies so it kinda honors me if you compare me with Einstein...but that is waaayyy too much!

If you like methodical thinking I would be glad to have you in my squad sometime!

About the tideous part...if I translate it correctly...Yes I am ops:

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I am just glad that I seem to have found sth. here - time not completely wasted
At least compared to starting/finishing that paper due!!

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...so better not spam 30 of em around it...

Tested it with about 8 directly on/in the cache object...that was fine

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...what im thinking about: what are actually the outer parts of the cache? its 3D so is the top of the cache outside too?...

Couldn't we open the cache object in a MAX of some sort and take a look at...col1? or 2?
The one for the weapons. I don't have 3DsMAX only GMAX...and only very little knowledge about all of that.

[dtacs]

This may be the case of some caches requiring more than 3 incendiaries to destroy.

It takes 7. Confirmed on Fallujah lastnight, as I noticed that the entire squad dropping incendiaries consecutively on the cache didn't cut the mustard, one of us had to return to drop a second one. I believe it was changed to encourage more securing of the area before actually destroying the cache, but its inherently frustrating that the BLUFOR are required to stay in the area for so long.

[Agemman]

It takes 7. Confirmed on Fallujah lastnight, as I noticed that the entire squad dropping incendiaries consecutively on the cache didn't cut the mustard, one of us had to return to drop a second one. I believe it was changed to encourage more securing of the area before actually destroying the cache, but its inherently frustrating that the BLUFOR are required to stay in the area for so long.

Really? I've killed several caches after the update with only 3 incendiaries.

[dtacs]

Well that hasn't worked once for me, and believe me I've tested it by playing BLUFOR practically every night on NwA. This has been on caches on Basrah, Archer and Fallujah respectively, with me specifically telling each squad member to be sure to left-click it so it sits atop the cache.

Sometimes the only effective way to take it out is by throwing more than clearly necessary.

[Sgt.BountyOrig]

So, direct damage does nothing, but caches absorb splash damage?

Could be why incindiaries on caches are so hard to use.

[Ford_Jam]

dtacs: many of those incendiaries weren't on the cache, next to the cache doesn't work. they have to be on the damn thing. There is nothing wrong with them. If it takes seven, you're doing it wrong.

Bounty: I don't think so, you can shoot cache's to death if you're in an APC or TOW (if you get a lucky postion )

[Psyko]

Well that hasn't worked once for me, and believe me I've tested it by playing BLUFOR practically every night on NwA. This has been on caches on Basrah, Archer and Fallujah respectively, with me specifically telling each squad member to be sure to left-click it so it sits atop the cache.

Sometimes the only effective way to take it out is by throwing more than clearly necessary.

I did it last night with 3. i guess you need practice.

[Agemman]

Well that hasn't worked once for me, and believe me I've tested it by playing BLUFOR practically every night on NwA. This has been on caches on Basrah, Archer and Fallujah respectively, with me specifically telling each squad member to be sure to left-click it so it sits atop the cache.

Sometimes the only effective way to take it out is by throwing more than clearly necessary.

Been playing most evenings on NwA ins as well. Just went and tested it locally and I managed to kill it with 4 every time.

[dtacs]

Might just have been me then, but ask [IED] Sexy_Saddam or Stinkycheeseman who play NwA regularly, and they will echo my experiences as they were there multiple times.

Honestly I've found myself taking a CE kit more often since its easier to C4 the cache through walls instead of having to screw around with incendiaries. Shame since we lost one rifleman but its just that much easier.

[KiloJules]

Concerning the numbers needed for cache destroying I would say that we normally need 4 of them. Last week we had one that blew up after 2 and 2 caches that went bye bye after 3.

But they probably had some damage taken before...Most of them where Unknown we eventually found, so why should they have taken damage before? I really don't know...

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Biggest Problem I have with destroying caches (have the feeling it is more common these days) that I get teamkilled/glitched by others phosphorus nades. Although there is no difference how I do it compared to the old patch. Lil' story:

Karbala/Iraq: The fight brings more friendly fire to our troops!

On a cache hunt in the north eastern part of Karbala these days,
a GI became victim to some douchebags.
Officer KiloJules and his Corpsman MoeSez were on a typical patrol
when a vehicle passed by them. The sun reflected off of sth.
that seemed like a weapon for a split second.
The soldiers started to check out where the vehicle is going,
following his trail. When it stopped about 100 m east of them
near a garage they can confirm:
Weapons, Insurgents! So the hunt begins...
After another minute the Insurgents showed up
with PKM and RPG and every veteran soldier
knows what that means...Unknown Cache location identified!
The attack begins, covering fire, flanking maneuver, area secured.
Attracted by the sound of the firefight friendly units start moving
into the area as well.
Officer Jules orders the Corpsman to start the ordnance disposal protocol
who drops both devices on the weapon cache and pulls back to the covering
position. Jules goes in preparing his devices when he suddenly dies
...cause one of the "friendly" guys rushed into the building,
standing behind him and dropping a "phos" right between his feet.
Jules later said:
"I am really sorry but I had to punish him for that! That was "our" cache,
it was almost done, without ANY problems or damage taken,
until these guys from the B-company showed up!
Since the BlueGuy wasn't able to get it down,
Corpsman MoeSez had to go in again to finish the job.
He is now with his family again - Officer K. Jules will never be!
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I would really like to have a device that
a) can not kill people at all or
b) is manually triggered like a "C4ish" thing (oc with less damage and range).

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Back to Topic: Any more ideas/answers/question on behalf of the claymores?

[Mikemonster]

Do they have the same penetration characteristics as bullets, or do they indeed go through doors, walls, vehicles?

And can they be used to blow open doors in the same way an incendary can be used?

[ytman]

Explosives in the BF2 Engine work in wonky ways. The cache is considered a vehicle and asfik vehicles take a different calculation for damage. This means that walls and terrain do not block vehicles from explosives for some weird and unavoidable reason.