Welcome to duty commander!

[DDS]

I've played BF2: PR for a little over 4 years and I am reaching a point where I think the gameplay is going off course.

In trying to find a good balance in realism and playability the commander role seems to have been diminished too much. Early on in my experience playing PR there was always a call for a commander at the start of the game. Which is now replaced with fighting on the carrier deck for the CAS and or Tank assets. We had some really good commanders a few years ago and they were effective at keeping the team motivated and focused on objectives.

I've gone to a few different servers just to see if I was just seeing this on one server or if there were others that encourage use of the commander role. But it appears to be across the whole community but I cant be certain.

Now from a reality standpoint a commander is certainly part of the mix. And from the the necessity of teamplay it makes sense to have the whole team under one competent person. Call me crazy but the military is structured in that way. Yes it's a game too and there needs to be flexibility to keep gameplay moving along, but I think it has swung too far the other way.

Now a bit of history. It wasn't long in the early days of PR that asshats would abuse the commander role just like in vanilla (regular BF2) and draw pictures with asset icons, harrass squad leaders or go afk ect.. ect. Eventually changes were made to address these problems. Over time the commander became less and less of the norm even though there are remedies to remove inept commanders.. admin kick/ban and voting them out. But somewhere along the way people who played as commander just seemed to give it up.

Whether it is because of cumulative changes to the game or just how gameplay has evolved I'm not really sure, but the commander role seems to being nudged right out of the game. I like to command but unless you are in a server encourages the use of commanders or rules that enforces 'follow commander orders' you get a bit of flack from squad leaders, either because they are new to the game or don't want anything to do with your role. So as commander your unable to mount a successful strategy.

It's disheartening to me too cause I remember the really good commanders we used to have as well as the team camaraderie that there was in the game. There was more pressure on those who squandered assets or wandered off the reservation.

I hope to see the commander role come back as I think it not having them has affected the game in a negative way.

I took a long while to write this up. I'd like some thoughtful feedback.

[Agemman]

The ability to coordinate through mumble SL along with the fact that UAV crashed things in 0.95 kinda messed things up. You could just have a dominant SL that was coordinating instead.

[DDS]

True but players used the role of commander well before UAV's, mumble, JDAM's ect. ect.. Mumble kinda addresses the intersquad communications but at some point decisions have to be made that advances the team. And a commander used to do that.

[Sgt. Mahi]

If you have been playing PR for four years you will probably remember that the commander was alot more important back then. I can't remember which version it changed but a commander was necessary to put down just one FOB. The commander had to place a command post before any other assets could be build.
The commander was also the only one who were able to drive the supply trucks and we all know how important logistics are to a successful team, which made the commander even more important in every round.

The necessarity of a commander, for the team to be able to be effective gave alot more respect to the person who went commander because nobody really wanted to do it even back then. But since someone more or less HAD to go commander the rest of the team respected that someone would give up a "normal round" to give the rest of the team a great round. Those who did this were often recognised as good commanders and it was actually more often than not that the whole team listened to the commander's orders.

The commander is not necessary anymore, which is a damn shame because in time the commander's role have lost all of it's respect. The mentality of most casual players is "We don't NEED him so I don't have to listen to him".

The problem when you want to make everyone on the team to listen to the commander you'll need to give some kind of power to the commander. For example if the commander had the possibilities to make sanctions against a squad that didn't follow orders like having the power to cut off all resupplies to that squad.
BUT if you give that kind of power to the commander you'll have a great risk of someone griefing and exploiting, thus ruining the whole game.

[Gracler]

It is true .... the commander lost all respect in PR.

I'm not trying to rant (well maybe a little), but in the beginning of BF2 vanilla the players listened much more to the commander than they do in PR. Of-course in vBf2 an order normally didn't include sitting in the desert waiting for 30 min....but still.

Today all I see is a squad leader saying...."can someone go commander so I can call in area attack?" 1 second after the area attack is done the commander resigns.

The commander is an endangered species, because he has no authorities and nothing fun to do, that a squad leader cant have while using mumble etc.

Personally I get quite annoyed when a sniper squad...or CAS squad or whatever starts bossing everyone around, and it often turns into a verbal fight between various squad-leaders. I like discussing with commanders though and I try to achieve what he wants if it is possible. This guy dedicated his time to organize and doesn't care about massive kill count (since commanders don't have a kill count)

Okay the commander has a UAV which is nice, but 43% of his time (I actually calculated that ) he will be looking at dirt. Even more if he decides to reposition the uav. War leaders (unconventional commanders) either have a crappy uav or nothing at all which makes them even less important.

Commanders normally spend there "down time" running logitruck runs or just travels out into the field for a "personal view".




The commander rally point is a nice feature but it is used so rarely that most players don't even know it exists. A real shame I think.

I still think that the commanders acv (command vehicle), should be mobile, but when parked it works as a spawn point.
Set the respawn time on it to 40 or 60 min....then the insurgents would feel it is a small victory whenever they destroy it. This way the commander would be quite important, and it would even be a little fun to guard him....instead of a "fisher price radio" and a bunch of sandbags aka FOB. And while he sits there being "important" he might aswell start leading his troops.

Don't know if it is possible but the Uav should be faster to deploy but have a maximum travel distance from the acv.

I know that someone is gonna say that COMMANDER SHOULD STAY IN HQ, but then think of him as the highest ranking officer on the field instead.

[PFunk]

I was talking about this recently in another thread here. Just cause the commander isn't necessary for gameplay mechanics like FOB placement doesn't mean he's irrelevant. SLs can't coordinate a team as well as a good CO. SL Mumble doesn't replace him, it just does a decent job of filling for him.

Good COs would be great but often nobody wants to be one cause nobody listens to him. Some servers pledge to make the CO's orders heard but still its a lot of work to have to try and coordinate a team of 32 and then ***** to an admin that may or may not be online to get an SL to listen or kick him if he's unruly.

The PR culture doesn't appreciate the CO and nobody seems interested in making him important again. Though to be honest I don't know how they can say he wouldn't be useful when you constantly see teams that lose ground because nobody will defend a flag and everybody will try to 'flank' the enemy and leave important objectives unguarded.

Alright, fine, I'll start commanding every time I play for the next week or two. Ill have to keep an ashtray and a bottle of bourbon next to my computer though or I may go mad.

I know that someone is gonna say that COMMANDER SHOULD STAY IN HQ, but then think of him as the highest ranking officer on the field instead.

If he was meant to stay in the HQ then why did they make a CO rally point? Why then did they also reintroduce the ability to see the command map when not in the HQ? Every commander has his style and while its very possible to command well from the HQ he shouldn't feel obliged to never leave.

Besides, seeing an effective commander hit the front, give an order in mumble and see it carried out... well thats pretty badass.

[Gracler]

Besides, seeing an effective commander hit the front, give an order in mumble and see it carried out... well thats pretty badass.

That's one of my ways of "spicing" up the commander role. It actually works better than you should expect.

What i normally do is try to figure out where our fronline is and find a nice "trench" to find cover in and just sit there with binoculars. I rarely use my rifle.......... I do it "we where warriors"- "Mel Gibson style" when the Vietcong start charging with bayonets ....its time to shoot.

Listening to the surroundings gives you a much better picture of what is going on than having a camera 10.000 feet in the air, and some squad-leaders actually start talking to the commander when they visually see him right there next to them.

btw... I NEVER seen a commander rally placed by anyone but myself.

[Triggerfinger]

I play as commander only when I'm not into action (after playing 2 regular rounds or so), I enjoy it and it's quite relaxing.

You have an overview of the map due to the UAV, you have the JDAM and you DO command squads.

Just be more superior to the squads while giving them commands, let the APC and other armour co-operate with the inf, look to the team text chat for coordinates given by passengers of heli's to see if they're heading to a safe/good place.

Now it all depends on the person itself whilst a long time ago people respected you just because you was an abstract pixelated thing called commander, now you have to make some effort and show that you're the boss.

[Gracler]

Now it all depends on the person itself whilst a long time ago people respected you just because you was an abstract pixelated thing called commander, now you have to make some effort and show that you're the boss.

This is why when I'm commanding I see myself as a "care taker" of the team.
I do it because i don't have anything better to do and nobody wants to be commander.
I will help coordinate transport....use the UAV and target for mortar or CAS.....I might move in the field and place a commander rally if possible.....I will reply on all requests from squad leaders.....I will mark targets on the map according to Intel from chat etc.......I will relay targets to specific squads.....
The thing I normally don't do is forcing specific squads to do specific jobs unless if they show the initiative themselves. I figure out which squads wants to be ordered around...and which squads wants to order themselves around. the 2nd part i leave alone and adapt the best I can.
I don't like to babysit and Tell my people, YOU HAVE TO GO THERE OR ILL SPANK YOU SILLY. It just ends with me being in a bad mood after the game is over.....then the point is lost.

I will yield my position to anyone who is willing to do this any time though, since a rough commander often seems to be much more efficient than a polite one. It can be too rough though, then players will start ignoring them.

[Bonsai]

I think the single biggest problem still is that there is no pre-planning possibility before the round starts.

Besides trying to organize sth. in MUMBLE SL channel. But 50% of people are AFK during the rounds and the rest will either not listen or not understand what you want from them or will not be interested in the type of missions. Plus the 2 minutes loading time is not enough to get a plan organized.

That`s at least what makes me play as grunt instead of CO on public servers.

I have quite a lot of ideas/tactics/plans I would be willing to try out in a public game. But all of them would mean that the layout and role of assets and units should be so they fit into the "plan".

Working with 2 infantry squads, a 6-man-recon unit, 4 pilots, 6 guys arguing about 2 APCs and 5 players trying to man 3 tanks (popular squadlayout on pub servers) will not work with what I have in mind.

Secondly many maps will be decided in the "movement phase". Means in the first 5 minutes into the game. And I`m not talking about a first-flag-rush here. I talk about getting strategical important locations like chokes or high ground areas secured and/or controlled. Means roles and assets and routes have to be known when the counter ends and the map starts.

To sum it up: A 5 to 10 minute pre-planning phase where a commander can draw sth. on a map and get people organized and instructed on the plan would be required.

Now - I doubt that will happen in PR:BF2 but maybe PR:ARMA will extend the already existing possibilities and make sth. out of it?

[Cassius]

Depending on the map the commander dominates in this version. On Kashan all it takes is an uav lazing and the littlebird to rule the map.

[ShockUnitBlack]

One day the commander shall be able to buy vehicles, and all will be good.

On topic - the commander basically exists right now to use the UAV and drop area attacks, nothing more. It's entirely unnecessary role, especially when a good SL can mark targets, laze, coordinate with other SLs, and still be shooting.

[AcEy]

In my opinion, the Commander role is really only necessary on Insurgency maps. When they coordinated attacks with multiple squads, it was the most fun I have ever had in PR.

[PFunk]

On topic - the commander basically exists right now to use the UAV and drop area attacks, nothing more. It's entirely unnecessary role, especially when a good SL can mark targets, laze, coordinate with other SLs, and still be shooting.

Totally disagree. SLs can do that but its another layer they're thinking about. If you're shooting you shouldn't be thinking about other squads. If an SL is coordinating things then he's slower at doing his own thing OR he's less organized than a CO who spends all his time coordinating.

@Bonsai I know exactly what you're talking about when it comes to pre round planning. Being able to properly assign routes to objectives at spawn, assigning vehicles and assets and making sure everyone has their role before they even spawn would be wonderful for COs stepping into public play.

That could be created a server which takes it on itself to impose that kind of regime. The round can't begin without someone taking CO, the countdown timer is much longer, and the CO is god assigning assets and squads and even telling SLs to send players to other squads to fill them out. It will probably never happen because no server admin want to risk losing their popularity.

If the above were implemented on a server I'd play CO there more often than I SL.

[WhiskeyHotel]

In the past week, I've only played about 2 games where somebody was commander...

Whenever I play Commander in a private match with bots, I don't find as many uses as I do as Squad leader, so in the end... "What is the point of Commander, anymore?" That's what I want to know.

[Mikemonster]

It would certainly be interesting if every round had a [proper] commander. Certainly would make the game a different kettle of fish.. More .. Joined together? As in, the team may well be more of a team.

Downside being that any asshat could control everything

[Murphy]

Downside being that any asshat could control everything

That is the deal breaker for me, I'd rather have no CO then ******. A lot of people would exploit any "power" give to the CO position if they were given some sort of incentive or tool to keep SLs in line. It seems like some people have best case scenarios in mind, but we really need to look at the worst cases and ensure it doesn't ruin the entire teams game. Teams with COs have a great success rate against those w.o. When insurgents have a CO and Blufor doesn't I can almost say the battle is already lost. He may have way less of an impact on the intel side of things, but they are good for keeping squads on task.

As it is now, in a public match, all a CO can do is make suggestions and hope the SL listens. They are great for gathering intel since UAVs have made their return, but teams do manage without.

[DDS]

I can count off a number of servers that if all they had to worry about was just some asshattery commanders they would be in a hell of better shape than they are now.

I see more ridiculous behavior by squad leaders, pilots and crewmen than any game I have played with a dumas commander. Good commanders don't crash CAS into the sea, walk off with the only available HAT, nor do they charge blindly into enemy defensive positions.

A decent server will be on the lookout for commanders causing havoc just as they do for teamkillers and griefers. You can't eliminate idiots entirely but there are far more good decent players than there are bad. The glass is half full.

I don't think giving the commander "powers" or abilities would solve the problem. I think it has to be a change in the community approach to the game and a understanding of what the commander does. Mind you a good commander WANTS to take that role because they approach the game from a strategic point of view rather than from the end of your rifle barrel. A good commander has a good understanding of of BOTH points of view while on his thrown.

As commander I watch squads desentegrate from the map before it happens because I can see what they do not. It is Strategery.. the capture and defence of flags and out maneuvering the enemy. NOT getting the most bodacious kills.
Therin is where it I think the community has veered off. To where, who knows.

[Spider]

I've always liked the commander role (and play it often) its like an over sized game of chess, however he could be of more value if he wasn't sitting in his tent smoking big fat cigars.

The role is not played by many as it can be dull between conflicts and UAV deployment, I'd love to see him move from his tent and be used more on the field from a forward outpost or somewhere similar so he can be used to his full potential and his awesome rally point be utilized more.

Would love to see the UAV in a suitcase or back back form that he could carry or even be controlled from a FOB, which in my opinion would see more people playing the role as it would be more interesting.

[Gracler]

Whatever brings the commander out of his box office and makes him more visible is a good change....Instead of him being the voice of god, and never actually see that he exists.