Refreshing the FOB System/Commander AVRE.

[Mikemonster]

Currently in PR you need to have a Logi Truck drop two crates to build a FOB that has assets.

One problem with this is that the Logi Truck only carries two crates. This means that as a team if you want more than one FOB the Logi has to RTB to rearm itself. This is logical and it's clear to see why it is implemented, however the reality is that as a Squad Leader you need to split your squad up to have one of them drive the Logi back and forth, and more often than not it is impossible to protect it on it's return journey. The result of this is a non-realistic 'mad dash' across the map by your man in the Logi, completely unprotected.

The other, more usual outcome, is that the Squad use the Logi as an expendable asset. They drive to the desired location with a Logi and an APC/vehicle, and then drop the crates and abandon the Logi. This means that inevitably you can only build one FOB per Logi in game, and there are never any Logi trucks available for squads wanting to move further afield.

Coupled with this, we discussed in another thread whether the Commander function is becoming little used.

My suggestion is along the lines of what follows. It's not set in stone (obviously), and any ideas on the subject are obviously welcome.

Suggestion: Give the team an armoured tractor, crewable only by the Commander. It has the same functions as a Logi truck, but instead of only two crates, give it far more (6 or so. Possibly more).

Obviously the Logi Trucks could still remain in game so that Squads retain their autonomy and a commander isn't required. However I believe that this idea would encourage 'base building' commanders who would be with a large blob of their team all the time, and along with this would encourage convoys moving accross the map (i.e. APC squad would move with the Commander in his AVRE[linky] and then they would set up a proper FOB rather than the disposable type usually encountered, where nobody bothers to defend it. The AVRE could be lightly armoured but fairly protected against mortars, preventing the inevitable precision, one-off mortaring of the friendly FOB.

[Rudd]

approved, the problem you describe has been in my thoughts also - perhaps its possible to organise an escort on a 128 server, but on 64 it is indeed the mad dash.

While I think a whole new vehicle is probably not on the cards, a commander only logi truck with extra crates could be an asset to gameplay. Please continue the discussion

[Lugi]

Bad idea, commander shouldn't be a porter. Btw you need only one crate to build a fob.

[dtacs]

Agree with the above. The commander is exactly that, a command asset. Logistics is its literally its own role with a plethora of sub-roles, all of which contribute to the team in their own respective manners.

I would like to see |TGXV|BullsEye's idea on this, as he is literally a master of logistics, be it building or moving crates around the map. Running logistics squad like he does is important, and its up to the commander to identify that. It shouldn't be up to the commander to take things into his own hands.

[Mikemonster]

Lugi, you have seen me in game, give me some credit.. Re-read that first sentence..

And yes Rudd, I wasn't specifically saying an AVRE should be modelled, but something of that function.. I just beliueve that an armoured vehicle or something as such that is seen as an authority asset would hopefully become fairly central to a [co-ordinated] team.

Usually at the start of the round teams are fairly co-ordinated, the APC squad will escort the Inf, etc etc. But it generally degrades because you build a FOB to give you a foothold and then you need to basically do lots of Admin tasks as a Squad Leader such as organise a driver to rearm the Logi, etc.

Edit: DTACs, in an ideal game yes, the commander should be a commander. And in this case he would be, he'd be in an armoured vehicle commanding from the front line, not sitting in a tent on his own lonewolfing with a UAV.

I like the command and control side of PR but hate the arkward logistics. Every logistics task is detracting from the aim of getting lots of people to play together as an army and take objectives. i'd like to see as much admin made redundant as possible in favour of people actually playing Armour of Inf, FOB defenders etc.

[Sgt. Mahi]

It's true that the returning of a logistic truck is a nightmare for a squad who wants to bring up a FOB but I don't think the solution to this is giving the commander the responsibility for the logistics in terms of driving the supply vehicle himself but why not bring back supply drops back for the commander and maybe then remove some logistic trucks as a counter part?

Supply drops should of course be limited and only be available every 15 minutes and maybe the crates should only allow a squad to build a FOB and not ammo reloading... But then again we have choppers for that kind of work.

[TheComedian]

I find the idea of a tractor chugging along on the battlefield very amusing.

[Spec]

I agree with the problem, but not the suggested solution. Perhaps reducing the number of crates per Logi to one and making two required to build a FOB would help in giving the squad an incentive to plan an escort beforehand. Slightly increase the number of light vehicles per map so the squad CAN escort the logi with a humvee, though. Make both the logis and the humvee(like)s non-respawning except for one humvee and one logi or so.

In other words: Increase the value of these assets and make one safe escort mission required in the first place (and make it possible for an infantry squad to escort their own logi, in case the armour squads are busy/sucky).

[ytman]

Lugi, you have seen me in game, give me some credit.. Re-read that first sentence..

I think the point is that you assume every FO (Forward Outpost) wants to be a CO (Combat Outpost). I've never once seen a single CO live up to the potential of multiple FOs.

Their is a type of contradiction for the CO. As a staging point you want it to give spawn possibilities but by making the point apparent with entrenchment and constant fire coming from it you've built yourself into a corner that needs to be backed up quickly by the rest of the team.

Mortars, UAV, and CAS all conspire to make any CO dust. They certainly have their purposes (Iron Eagle requires them).

Usually at the start of the round teams are fairly co-ordinated, the APC squad will escort the Inf, etc etc. But it generally degrades because you build a FOB to give you a foothold and then you need to basically do lots of Admin tasks as a Squad Leader such as organise a driver to rearm the Logi, etc.

I personally think that one or two people dedicated to a Supply Truck isn't a terrible idea. Along this you could theoretically devise a 'Rear Gaurd' outfitted with one Jeep class vehicle and two Supply Trucks. I'll experiment with that soon. But really only such a team is required on 4km maps as 2km is comparitivly smaller.

Edit: DTACs, in an ideal game yes, the commander should be a commander. And in this case he would be, he'd be in an armoured vehicle commanding from the front line, not sitting in a tent on his own lonewolfing with a UAV.

I have no problem with a CO vehicle. UAV in my opinion is a useful but not endall purpose of the CO. I personally think the CO rally, smartly used, will defeat a UAV any day. In that area I think any asset that will help the CO stay in the field would be wonderful... though maybe he shouldn't be the driver.

I like the command and control side of PR but hate the arkward logistics. Every logistics task is detracting from the aim of getting lots of people to play together as an army and take objectives. i'd like to see as much admin made redundant as possible in favour of people actually playing Armour of Inf, FOB defenders etc.

One or two people constantly running logi trucks is no different than one or two people constantly sitting at main idling with a Cow. Whenever the increased player count comes up the Logistics will still require the same amount of people 2-3 on most maps.

I also DO NOT think one or two logi trucks in field without crates a bad thing if they are in safe locations. Remember the Repair Point they drop. Many times I've seen teams extend the reign of their armor by simply having a near by Repair Point instead of RTBing.

[Tarranauha200]

OR, thing called logistics squad.

[killonsight95]

I don't agree with the suggestion as a whole because of the commander thing, but I think maybe giving logistic trucks an advantage to a dedicated logistic squad would help in encouraging logistic squads etc.
current possible solutions:
- Give the commander an ability or asset that allows for more FOB's to be easily placed.
- Give the player incentive to do it themselves

the first option is explained in this thread, however A better option might be to actually give the people on the ground more incentive to drive logistics and build FoB's etc.

The following should be done in my opinion:
- give twice as many points to the player for driving a logistic truck than he does already, when a supply crate gets fully used he should get 100-150 points.
- Give the commander a logistic truck with 4-6 crates and can drop two repair crates and carries double the CSB's, possibly parked outside UAV station, on sea assault maps he should be given supply drops every 10 mins that supply only half the ammo of a normal supply crate but can build an FoB.
- Make FoB's drain ammo from crates, within 50 meters radius, at a rate of 1 ammo bag every 2.5 - 5 mins

[ytman]

I just want to say ideas of FOs draining ammo from crates is a terrible idea. You get only around 7 reloads off of one crate anyways.

[killonsight95]

hmmmm, I think it'd balence out the commanders assets and extra commander crates, plsu it would give the helis on some maps something to do inbetween their boring low times.

[ytman]

hmmmm, I think it'd balence out the commanders assets and extra commander crates, plsu it would give the helis on some maps something to do inbetween their boring low times.

No. That 'Boring Low Time' is the price you pay to fly. You are in command of an asset that greatly extends the range of any fighting force, losing it is incredibly detrimental to your fighitng ability for the next 10 minutes not to mention the ticket loss.

Making a helo expose itself more than it needs to will not be a good thing.

[LieutenantNessie]

I find the idea of a tractor chugging along on the battlefield very amusing.

I started thinking that after your post and lol'd

[TheComedian]

I started thinking that after your post and lol'd

Add to that a harvester, seeder, mobile sprinklers and you have yourself PR:FFS (food farming simulator)
/joke

My idea is to have downtime on the logis for like 1-2 minutes to be unable to drop crates and prevent FOB rushing and basically cut flag rushing to a minimum.

This is somewhat related with the warmup time for helicopters.

[Hulabi]

Add to that a harvester, seeder, mobile sprinklers and you have yourself PR:FFS (food farming simulator)
/joke

My idea is to have downtime on the logis for like 1-2 minutes to be unable to drop crates and prevent FOB rushing and basically cut flag rushing to a minimum.

This is somewhat related with the warmup time for helicopters.

He didn't mean a tractor as in :



But a tractor as in something more like this:

[ComradeHX]

How about giving back commander's option to drop supply crates, but give it a delay of 10 minutes(or how long it takes to get ready in real life, scaled to PR's pace) after the initial order?

Also make it so that there has to be at least 6 friendlies in 50m radius of it during that 10 minutes for it to successfully drop to prevent exploits.

[TheComedian]

But a tractor as in something more like this:

I can see what you mean however adding that would severely mess things up. Not to mention making and coding a new model that has very little impact on the game environment.

[Mikemonster]

In an ideal world there would be a logi truck squad in every round, and they would bring crates etc. But they still need to do the 'mad dash' accross the map in a soft skinned vehicle. And in my opinion many of the replies in this thread regarding 'logistics' are idealistic and essentially creating problem for the 'solution' (i.e. Make the team even more tedious, complex, overstretched and specialised by creating a 'logi squad' role simply because FOBs are tedious to build as a SL. Instead why not just simplify the FOB system?).

The idea that the game could be centred on an armoured command vehicle one manned by the commander but requiring an escort intrigues me and I was hoping to discuss it. I'm not advocating making the Commander a 'porter', I am advocating making the 'porter' role redundant.

Combat outpost vs FOB .. I like that description. Although I believe FOBs should be made less vulnerable to mortar fire.. Seeing as they represent something built to withstand it.