Fire extinguishers?

[Spec]

You know how the Field Dressing only heals up a certain percentage? Can't the same code be used for the extinguisher? or maybe have the extinguisher have a lower usage time?(Clarify: You know how the wrench in BF2 has a limit to how long you can use it? Well, can't the same be applied to the extinguisher?(or maybe the overheat code for the M249 SAW in Vbf2 lol)

Both can be done, and both is abusable. A field dressing can be used more than once. Even if a single field dressing only gives back like 20% health, it merely takes a a few squad members to fully patch you up. It's not often done that way because a medic is quickly arriving at the scene usually, but if you've ever been wounded without medical support, you'll have searched kits lying around for more field dressing and, given you weren't alone in the desert, probably survived (unless you got shot again). The same would apply to vehicles. They'd just get moar crewmen. (by infantry requesting the crewman kit, or by crewmen refilling their ammo and using their 'field dressing' several times in a row. Remember, APCs carry a lot of ammo).

As for the wrench/overheating effect: Sure, possible. This'd indeed limit the use of ONE crewman kit. Yet, it doesn't help with more people helping to fix the vehicle. I am specifically worried about two identical vehicles with different amounts of personell having different chances of survival. That can be the extra gunner in a tank or an infantry squad in the back of an APC.

As for vehicles repairing themselves: Ye, that'd be possible. Vehicles can only rearm at base. But - what's the point? In that case, you could just take the burning effect out in the first place. The driver pressing a button to stop the burning isn't exactly the most interesting gameplay element...

[Hitperson]

Ninja2dan;1660554']The type of extinguishers used on military equipment is likely going to be a Halon 1211 type. Unlike chemical-agent extinguishers, these leave no residue and have minimal damage risk against sensitive electronic equipment. Although the majority of civilian-grade extinguishers are now Halotron, the military still uses certain classes of Halon that meet federal requirements. I won't discuss legality of Halon due to it not being vital to this topic.

The average range of most Halon hand-held extinguishers is 10-12 feet. The agent is a rapidly-evaporating liquid gas, which is why there is lack of residue. The gas is mildly toxic to those in the immediate release cloud, but in an open area such as outdoors there is not a high chance of injury risk. Attempting to fully discharge an extinguisher at a person within range and in the open environment is likely to have similar effect as popping them with a cloud of CS/CN agent.


As for use of an extinguisher in PR by crewmen, I can see it being practical but only if it could be done properly. I would NOT want to see an extinguisher be capable of "healing/repairing" a vehicle in the same manner as a wrench or combat dressing. The use of an extinguisher should only be capable of bringing a vehicle's health a fart above the "critical/burning" phase and no more. The entire purpose of the extinguisher should be to do just that, extinguish the fire thereby removing the constant health loss associated with the "burning vehicle" effect.

For example, if the Critical phase of a vehicle (the point at which it is burning and gradually continues to lose health) is 15% overall HP, the extinguisher should only be capable of repairing it to 17% or so. If you use the extinguisher when the vehicle is at 2% or 15%, the maximum repair possible will ALWAYS be 17%. This would avoid people exploiting the purpose of the extinguisher and using it to repair a vehicle as if it was some sort of magical fix-me wrench.


You would also need to code in a "charge" or "ammo" capacity for the extinguishers, requiring the crewman to "rearm" if it has been used. The maximum capacity of the extinguisher should probably be 150-200% the amount required to actually repair a vehicle from 1% to 17% (as example, based on above) to account for improper use (standing too far away, not aiming it properly, etc). As a comparison, most real-world extinguishers have a maximum duration of around 10 seconds. From my experience, an average "fully-involved" automotive engine fire can be extinguished by a 2.5lb Halon extinguisher in about 5 seconds.


If someone wants to code up the extinguishing "repair" effect, and it tests out to function as intended, then I don't see why not. The models/animations will take some work, but probably not as challenging as the effect itself.

we would have to look at what nations use what for their vehicle extinguishers as i'm pretty sure Halon has never been used in the UK (in extinguishers at least) i think it would either be Powder or CO2 but someone from Bovi would be able to confirm.

E: http://www.fireprotectiononline.co.uk/f ... nguishers/ seems you can even get extinguishers that shoot chrome

[Rhino]

As for the ammo dropping from APC exploit, just have set so the engie only gets 2 refills of the Fire Ext. If you can.

Not possible.

Maybe have the abrams drop say light repair kit from the drivers seat, and just drops a look a like toolbox for the engie and resupplys him?

This A) makes it somewhat still realistic
B) limited re-supplys takes abuse away
C) makes it so tanks dont get screwed (no ammo drop VS. APC drops ammo crates. My Toolbox suggestion. fixes this)

Not having the crewman getting out in order to repair the vehicle and still being able to fire in this situation sort of defeats the point.

I don't think that'd work. You can't have specific items only rearm specific classes/weapons, otherwise we'd not have medics taking the same 'ammo' for their epipens as machine gunners for their SAWs. The amount of ammo can also only be limited by how much is in the box, it can't be limited depending on what item is refilled. The devs can't even make one item 'worth' more ammo than another: it only depends on the ammo count. Otherwise the riflemans' ammo bag could be worth a LAT missile but not a rifleman ammo bag at the same time. As it is, it can only have enough ammo for neither or both.

Ammo in the BF2 engine is somewhat of a weird thing.

Indeed, this is how it works and its very limited. We are lucky enough to have different types of vehicles being able to be reloaded from different supply groups in BF2

Or just make it fire extinguishers = stop bleeding but not gain any health. Just stablise it until you can rtb or find a repair crate thing. If this is possible.

Too bad i don't think you can link something to stopping the bleeding effect otherwise they should've done that with the field dressings long ago.

I don't know please look into this

That's not possible. Bleeding is directly linked to HP in BF2 which is a big shame as if we could do it this way, we would with normal field dressings.

How about only make the fire extinguiser give a continuous hp increase to counter act against the burning effect?

Maybe make it like a wrench with very low repair power so the vehicle has to stay put/move very slowly while the crewman is outside spraying at the engine? Also, there is a need to limit the effect so people cannot repair the vehicle with multiple crewman kits.

This will make the logi truck more useful as the repair station will need to be dropped next to the damaged vehicle near the frontlines instead of just dumped somewhere far away while the logi truck is sent elsewhere for other business.

Interesting but the problem with this idea is that you could still do full field repairs on your vehicle when it was not bleeding after a small hit from an RPG etc.

But if we made the bleed very slow and the repair of the fire extinguisher very slow as well then it might not be worth the time doing a full repairing in the field and make more sense just to put out the fire (if there was one) with the help of a logi truck possibly and then / or RTB for a full repair.

Why not just remove the burning altogether and as health decreases, first is a master caution that would indicate that the vehicle is at 50% health or below, then at the threshold where the vehicle would normally be burning, burning is taken out altogether, and instead there's a master warning and alarms blaring and flashing red lights, etc.

Of course, we still need to keep the ability to be immobilized, just the fire part is annoying when in most vehicles they either die immediately from a hit to the ammo w/ no blowout ammo racks, or have to have the vehicle hit until enough components are damaged to consider it a mission-kill. Either way, fires are unlikely in vehicles with automated fire suppression systems, even if the Halon gas is bad for the crewmen, at least they get away with their lives.

I would honestly rather not have the health at all instead of having it burn down when I accidentally hit a bump on my way back to the repair station and blow up just outside the base entrance. Nothing is more irritating and unrealistic.

Interesting idea, but the problem I see with this is that if your vehicle dose become demobilized it may just become ditched in the field and then will sit out there for possibly the entire battle until someone decided to destroy it... Could possibly get around that with the vBF2 abandoned code being put back in where a vehicle self destructs after a certain amount of time if no one is in it but would still need to be like 10mins or something to make sure it didn't interrupt with game play. Could possible add an incendiary grenade to the crewman kit so they could also destroy the vehicle themselves if they are forced to abandon it. But ye this idea dose sound quite interesting to me. Would like to hear some more thoughts on it

[Spec]

Please, don't put any abandoned vehicle self destruct thing in. It's such an unrealistic feature, it was extremely annoying in BF2. It's like a crosshair or minimap; yes, it can be useful, but most of the time it's just annoying and feels out of place. It's one of the things a realism mod just shouldn't have imo. Yes, gameplay > realism, but in a reality mod, sometimes realism > gameplay (or even realism -> gameplay!), otherwise it'd not be called Project Reality.

Rather rework the way vehicles spawn or something. I always wanted all vehicles to be there from round start. No respawns. Ditched vehicles have to be recovered. Destroying them would be useless, because nothing will respawn in their stead. The issue with that is probably the object limit in BF2, or silly players wasting all vehicles at round start... Though, I'd actually give them that freedom. Might promote the use of a proper commander to regulate the use of vehicles to be enough to stand a chance, but few enough not to waste it all in the first 15 minutes of a round.

[Sgt. Mahi]

Interesting idea, but the problem I see with this is that if your vehicle dose become demobilized it may just become ditched in the field and then will sit out there for possibly the entire battle until someone decided to destroy it... Could possibly get around that with the vBF2 abandoned code being put back in where a vehicle self destructs after a certain amount of time if no one is in it but would still need to be like 10mins or something to make sure it didn't interrupt with game play. Could possible add an incendiary grenade to the crewman kit so they could also destroy the vehicle themselves if they are forced to abandon it. But ye this idea dose sound quite interesting to me. Would like to hear some more thoughts on it

Why is it a problem if a vehicle gets abandoned?? It would just take an effort to make sure to get repairs to the vehicle or destroy it. It could actually be a refreshing new tactical mission for both teams instead of the usual flags if a tank is abandoned. I just drooled thinking about capturing an abondoned tank as an insurgent!

Sounds like a good job for an engineer squad to destroy the tank to make sure it doesn't fall into enemy hands.

Oh or maybe give the commander to "demolish" abandoned vehicles.

Of course the crew men should be able to take it down them selfs as well but please no time limit on abandoned vehicles!

[Vista]

"Just do it™"

[Rhino]

The biggest problem I see with abandoned vehicles is with them being in a spot where you can't get to them again, like being out of bounds (although unlikely to be so far out you can't destroy them, but would require a ranged weapon) but ye I guess we could get away with not having to put it in, would make the job of the recovery teams a lot more interesting for sure.

[Sgt. Mahi]

Is it really not possible to make vehicles bleed when going out of bounds?

[Stealthgato]

Rather rework the way vehicles spawn or something. I always wanted all vehicles to be there from round start. No respawns. Ditched vehicles have to be recovered. Destroying them would be useless, because nothing will respawn in their stead. The issue with that is probably the object limit in BF2, or silly players wasting all vehicles at round start... Though, I'd actually give them that freedom. Might promote the use of a proper commander to regulate the use of vehicles to be enough to stand a chance, but few enough not to waste it all in the first 15 minutes of a round.

Definetly not. It's too easy to destroy vehicles in PR, 30 minutes into a round it would be infantry based map. And think about the transport... Go ahead, walk from the carrier in Muttrah/Barracuda/Jabal or the main in Kashan or Burning Sands to the flags - lets see how much fun you have. And another problem would be griefers - their effect would be amplified so much that they could ruin the round in the first minute.

[Spec]

I know, I know... Shame people are stupid. Perhaps some sort of commander requested vehicles, or vehicle spawn waves (unrelated to the vehicles currently in use/destroyed/at base)... But that's heading OT I suppose.

[Rhino]

Please make a new topic if you want to talk about a new spawn system guys, don't want this topic going off-topic. Thanks.

Is it really not possible to make vehicles bleed when going out of bounds?

not to my knowledge, but tbh thinking about it if that was a problem it would be a problem now too. Only real place it can happen is with aircraft landing out of bounds (which I've seen happen when a guy has bled out from going out of bounds, the plane landed itself ) but aircraft have shorter decay times.

[ComradeHX]

But if we made the bleed very slow and the repair of the fire extinguisher very slow as well then it might not be worth the time doing a full repairing in the field and make more sense just to put out the fire (if there was one) with the help of a logi truck possibly and then / or RTB for a full repair.

I think the whole point of the fire extinguisher, in the original post, was to stop the fire from blowing up the vehicle/lose tickets that way. So it is only use in emergency when the vehicle's internal alarm goes up and start burning while no logi truck can ever make it in time, crewmen can stay outside the vehicle and hit it with fire extinguisher to stop it from blowing up and wait for a logi truck to arrive.

Otherwise there would not be much need for the fire extinguisher unless, as always hilarious, someone adds a melee attack with it.

[Rhino]

The point would be as per the part I quoted in my post would be you used the fire extinguisher to stop the bleeds effects. If you just left the tank it would blow up as when I mean slow bleed, I mean blowing up still with under a minute without any attention....

[Spec]

And honestly, standing there for long times just spraying the tank with foam is certainly not realistic. These extinguishers don't have unlimited content in real life either, a crewman standing there and spraying the tank for 20 minutes until a logi arrives isn't more realistic than what we currently have.

[Bringerof_D]

;1661223']Yes add this and make bluefor armors unbeatable.Opfors have much problem while engaging 1 apc or tank with this we cant do anything on them.And pll will spam it everytime when armor goes up fire and run back to base easily.

In other hand arty ieds will done beat armors instead of take them down.

While talking about arty ied in new versions of mod its seems to me arty ied not resupply with 1 bag of ammo box anymore and this make too much problem because we need to go back to cache or base for resuplly.

how often is it that a vehicle is brought to burning where the crew has time to bail out, switch weapons, and stand there for 5 seconds to do something?

I can imagine all the situations mentioned which can sue this as an exploit but the situations to allow that exploit is so specific that it might never happen.

Here:
on board fire extinguisher, have it set as a weapon for the driver/pilot. it will last 10 seconds and only enough to counter act the burning of the vehicle. this will give enough time for crew and passengers to bail out, and increase the survivability of helicopters allowing them to crash land.

in previous versions the disable effect the choppers were supposed to create this possibility, however the burn and crash itself tended to make this very rare that it would even make it to the ground or not just explode on impact due to the health loss in the burn before the crash.

[bloodthirsty_viking]

The only way i could think of this working is having, like others have said, A driver thing that is triggered by the driver and needs to be re-filled.

Or if it is possible, When the vehicle reaches around 10-15% health it drops a kit behind it automatically that has a fire extinguisher, that "Heals" it to the point it can work again, like ninja said, but to stop exploits (Mostly) each vehicle could only drop one (unless healed to 100%?) And the kit would only have the fire extinguisher, no gun, no field dressing, just the extinguisher. You could only use the fire extinguisher for about 10 second, In which it would "Overheat" And have a cool down time of an hour+

[Redamare]

I like the idea . . . Just for the extinguisher to bring the health up past critical . . only thing is dont HMMVs and other vehicles have extinguishers in them? would this require crewman to drive all vehicles just so that we can have them onboard? :O . . . Or maybe it should be an Arma add on

[Fastjack]

Hi all,

Could possibly get around that with the vBF2 abandoned code being put back in where a vehicle self destructs after a certain amount of time

The Objectspawners have a setting = radius
Isn't that the distance from the spawn, that a vehicle can be abandoned without selfdestruction? So far i know yes. Increase it!

Creating a fire extinguisher? Yes. I saw flamethrowers in other mods. Sticky projectils with SupplyObject_damage templates.

Why not reverse?

For the Halon extinguisher :
A multifirecomp with (maxProjectilesInWorld =5) Max ammo 10
After this, the extinguisher must be reloaded by the vehicle depot. Ammotyp like tanks etc.
The extinguisher have an continious gaseous exhaust or spray effect (like tracers/barrelfire or else).
The projectils are sticky to the vehicle, have an SupplyObject with healing ability, regenerates a small amount of health (so that 5 projectils totally heal 100 HP damage in 10 seconds) and have a short time of life.
The short time of life prevents exploits like attaching the healthprojectils before any battle starts to heal collision damages etc.

Sideeffect, if u have a bad skill in extinguishing, maybe ur not close enough to it and only few regeneration projectils hit the burning vehicle, the extinguisher is empty but the vehicle is still on fire.
So u have the option to FAIL

[Hotrod525]

;1661223']Yes add this and make bluefor armors unbeatable.

Well if you look at this with some "knowledge" you should know that Russian and Chinese vehicle are also equip with AFESS kind of device. Russian-made vehicle beat most NATO one when it come down to fire power. When in come to technology, West got the upper hand. It dosent make the BLUFOR unbeatable. Observe, Fight and Adapt.