Sending new guys on the "good servers"

[KiloJules]

Hey guys,

Please bear with me and this following thought!
Note: This is not going against new players, we all were new at one point, and it is by no mean to put people off or anything!!! Although their is a couple of threads this thought might belong into I wanted to make a new thread for it to get a special discussion going!

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Why do we always send new players straight to the "good servers"?

Whatever that means anyway, I mean the players make the round and
I had very good rounds on very "different" servers...and very frustrating
ones too.

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The point is:

If there is a player increase that brings a lot of new players to the table
I think it is wonderful for all of us but if you have to many spots on a server
filled with new guys the "veterans" simply can't can't coop with that in terms of
"keeping the gameplay-level at a decent value".

And I know that all of you know that feeling when you join such a server,
awaiting a super-uber-teamwork-all-works-well round and what you get
is 31 others (or at least all the SLs in channel) swearing about all guys
being newbs and nothing good going on.

Or if you lead a squad with maybe 3 new guys and you have to talk and explain
soooo much you almost can't even play yourself anymore. And I am not only
talking about the usual "how do I do this and that?" but all the things that get
into your "flesh and blood" (as we would say it here) about your general and
specific behavior on the battlefield.

I had many rounds like this on such a server since this "flood of new players"
as one of the before mentioned SLs in channel once put it. It is not really
annoying but just stressful and frustrating of some sort.

Idk about you guys but the way I learned PR (not saying I wasn't still learning
every game I play) by playing Muttrah 24/7 (and I mean literally 24/7 )
to get the basic feel of the game, to learn how to work with my map,
to test different kits and weapon systems, to see what the game is all about and so forth.
After a while when I felt more comfortable I even lead squads there to learn
more and more. Then at one point I went on another server and discovered the
beautiful Insurgency gamemode and was totally mindfacked about all the stuff
that is different to what I knew till that day...but I could coop with it, cause I knew the basics of PR!

Since I play I brought 2 new guys to PR and "trained the both of them" in Muttrah.
It is a very good environment as you pretty fast know the basic shape of the battle
in the city. Also you'll get to see a lot of the (for PR gameplay very important)
enterable buildings and an average amount of mixed-warfare to get you started.

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So here we are, thanks for reading, hope you can see what I am trying to transmit here,
get a discussion going if needed, spread the word! What word you might ask?

B-B-B-Bird's the word...

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Regards,

Kilo

[Jolly]

If there are newbies, Things i want is simple:read the mannual and server rules,listening to Squad leader,never touch those unfamiliar kits or vehicle.everything will be fine.( Better communication is of great important,)
Definition of a"Good server"should be a server with great teamwork,new with teamwork mind should not be kicked.

PS:It is indeed our duty to train those new and guide them properly,or they'll never grow.what's worse, fewer guys will play PR......
Without our guide new will never grow....

[Gracler]

never touch those unfamiliar kits or vehicle.

I don't agree with that. If I get a new guy in my squad that clearly states that "I'M A NEW GUY....WHAT DO I DO?" then i have no problems letting him grab a special kit or gun or drive a vehicle. (with the exception of piloting).

the servers normally only carry 31-32 players per team so by denying all the "noobs" to grab "interesting" stuff will just leave the main base with an unused arsenal. I had completely new players go from gunning apc's and do a lot of miss in the first minutes and after zeroing in there sight being dead on with the shots.....all it takes is to explain which weapon to use when and how to aim it. It is not "rocket science" to a normal gamer.

Communication is the key....if the "new guy" doesn't reply to you.....then he should rather be doing something less important like carrying ammo bags

[Jolly]

I don't agree with that. If I get a new guy in my squad that clearly states that "I'M A NEW GUY....WHAT DO I DO?" then i have no problems letting him grab a special kit or gun or drive a vehicle. (with the exception of piloting).

the servers normally only carry 31-32 players per team so by denying all the "noobs" to grab "interesting" stuff will just leave the main base with an unused arsenal. I had completely new players go from gunning apc's and do a lot of miss in the first minutes and after zeroing in there sight being dead on with the shots.....all it takes is to explain which weapon to use when and how to aim it. It is not "rocket science" to a normal gamer.

Communication is the key....if the "new guy" doesn't reply to you.....then he should rather be doing something less important like carrying ammo bags

What i really mean is let them train themselves in coop mode, in coop mode ,they can use whatever they want,they could try everything and know it's character......
Newbie in APC or Tank is horriable!!
Teamkiller and ignore enemies,They will shoot friendly very accurate,and ignore enemy's hat who is standing in opening street prepared to fire........(driver:click left bottom all the time,seeing a missile, black screen)
All they need frist is to learn to be a inf man with basic kit.then after a short period,when they gained experience,they can try some special kits,like hat...after destoryed some vehicles and played for some rounds,they got sharp eye,and they can distinguish friendly at last,then onboard apc!!with a nice driver,they can kill as many and offer support due to their inf experience.
This reminded me,A good patient SL is needed.....

[Gracler]

Newbie in APC or Tank is horriable!!
Teamkiller and ignore enemies,They will shoot friendly very accurate,and ignore enemy's hat who is standing in opening street prepared to fire........

Thatch your job as instructor to help inform where the baddies are and where the goodies are...some people can sit on coop servers in there comfort zone and train all day and then when they get into the "real" servers they rack up team kills because they fear for there precious vehicle. All it takes is a steady hand and some directions of where your clear to fire.

I do agree though that if the map has very limited assets it would be a bad idea to "claim" those few assets with a beginner (example the abrams on karbala or MTLB 30mm on muttrah) but I would use even new players when assets are parked everywhere waiting to be used rather than force the poor guy to grab a rifleman and go up against heavy assets as if he was chuck norris (example quinling, burning sands, kashan desert, Al basrah, Beirut, etc.)

[Jolly]

Thatch your job as instructor to help inform where the baddies are and where the goodies are...some people can sit on coop servers in there comfort zone and train all day and then when they get into the "real" servers they rack up team kills because they fear for there precious vehicle. All it takes is a steady hand and some directions of where your clear to fire.

I do agree though that if the map has very limited assets it would be a bad idea to "claim" those few assets with a beginner (example the abrams on karbala or MTLB 30mm on muttrah) but I would use even new players when assets are parked everywhere waiting to be used rather than force the poor guy to grab a rifleman and go up against heavy assets as if he was chuck norris (example quinling, burning sands, kashan desert, Al basrah, Beirut, fools road etc.)

Here is my view about kits to newbie.
In 4KM map,inf cant go aganist heavy vehicle,new should reeeeeeeeeally learn how to "destory" one apc,Not simply grap a hat aim and shoot.APCs are armed too!!If you go againist it in wrong direction,and lost your kit in opening field,i think your squad have only 3 choice,calling cas or armour support,killed by apc,or just click suicide.
New guys should learn to destory enemy in right way,not right kit,and i'll never ask my men shoot a tank with rifle,especially poor guy......LOL
If my squad got stuck with enemy heavy vehicle....I'll scream on mumble,and tell my men prepare to see some firework
I guess most of newbie will be shocked,when they see enemy tank destoryed by CAS or friendly armour fire......They gotta love this:Calling CAS, watch the firework,then kill all who dare show up.....

Asset,i partly agree with you.....
But i'd rather carry a experienced inf man as my gunner

[LieutenantNessie]

What i really mean is let them train themselves in coop mode, in coop mode ,they can use whatever they want,they could try everything and know it's character......
Newbie in APC or Tank is horriable!!
Teamkiller and ignore enemies,They will shoot friendly very accurate,and ignore enemy's hat who is standing in opening street prepared to fire........(driver:click left bottom all the time,seeing a missile, black screen)
All they need frist is to learn to be a inf man with basic kit.then after a short period,when they gained experience,they can try some special kits,like hat...after destoryed some vehicles and played for some rounds,they got sharp eye,and they can distinguish friendly at last,then onboard apc!!with a nice driver,they can kill as many and offer support due to their inf experience.
This reminded me,A good patient SL is needed.....

Agreed, new players hardly ever priorize the targets, meaning if there's a TOW/Hat looking at you they just shoot other INF to get their kills up, which isnt really the point of the game

[mockingbird0901]

Once had a total nub join me in the BMP on Jabal, had to tell him just about everything, except how to fire. Still was a good round, killed quite a lot of enemies, only died at the end of the round when we were getting pushed of north bridge and had to take a risk to keep it, and in the end he thanked me for a great round. I think it turned out well.
As an SL you just have to tell people what they need to know, as in telling the nub using the HAT to get it ready if you hear a tank charging at you, and telling him how the sights work. If you go down you go down, no big deal, it's just a game after all, and they learn from it.

[Bringerof_D]

Agreed, new players hardly ever priorize the targets, meaning if there's a TOW/Hat looking at you they just shoot other INF to get their kills up, which isnt really the point of the game

this too is the job of the SL, give specific and concise orders. give them fire orders. tell them what to save and what to expend asap.

@op: no noob get's "sent" to the good servers. its simply byt he nature of the good servers being more populated. players old or new obviously want to be in fuller servers.

COOP mode serves little purpose as a training tool save for learning how the weapons work. You think it is ahrd now, i joined in .6. with the laser accurate rifles the wrong twitch got you killed and ruined the day for your squad. There was no training mode or servers. I learned just fine because SLs back then took the time to explain things. I told them i was new and told me exactly what they needed me to do, how to do it, and what not to do.

as for approaching a target from the wrong direction, that is entirely the SL's responsibility, that man should not be operating alone and making that decision by himself anyhow. All members of the squad should be feeding intel over the radio about which way the enemy is paying attention to and which side is the safest. a noob is no more liable for walking right into the sights of an enemy squad than any experienced player. it all comes down to situational awareness.

as for training new guys or bringing them in, i prefer taking them to maps with either rolling hills/dunes or more forrest and mountainous maps. This way i can teach them to read the lay of the land without relying on streets and large roads to predict enemy movement, and without the need for specific buildings as land marks. just having one good look at the map and getting an idea of the curves lets me know exactly where the most popular spots for FOBs are, where infantry like to move, and where Armour likes to move etc.

[=HCM= Shwedor]

I think the player quality has gone down with the removal of training mode. People start off playing COOP now (sometimes) before joining a real server and think that just because they can fly and tank against completely daft bots that they will instantly perform in a teamwork oriented server. Many of the vets of PR are simply unwilling to put up with the terrible performance of the new guys and stick to playing with other veterans on a squad and team level. Previously, there were so few new players that it didn't really bother the vets to take the time to teach. I believe that reintroducing the training mode (with quick respawning vehicles, and utilizing recent gameplay updates such as base protection shields) will encourage new players to go to those designated training servers to practice against and with REAL PEOPLE and work their way up to a point that they can effectively operate in a real server. Playing against bots quite simply brings you down to a bot level of intelligence, and inhibits your ability to adapt to more sophisticated tactics once you join a real server. Starting off playing against intelligent people (most people don't want to play bots at all, which is why you find completely clueless people instantly joining real PR servers instead of COOP), while yet not ruining the game for the vets, would be a major benefit to PR. Just think of training mode as though it were a college classroom, a cooperative project with your fellow students to learn the information your instructor has asked you to learn before they hand you your degree.

[sparks50]

The new guys are tommorows team players.. Be nice and get them early^^

[billysmall44]

lol when i played my first game i was like
"hey im a noob what do i do"
SQ"grab a rifleman kit and spawn in"
so i did.
i eventually RTB infantry style for ammo bags like 20 times before i realized i wasnt being used to my full potential, he just didnt want to deal with me and teach me how to play.
its important to be patient with noobs. Give them time, and they will learn.

[Murphy]

Let's also keep in mind a lot of these new players are not used to the pacing of PR, the games players migrate from has a direct relation to how well they integrate. I'd love to see a scripted boot-camp or video tutorial that is required to play through/watch before you can "deploy", it would eliminate "RTFM" and new players would all come into deployment with enough of an understanding to jump into a squad and start contributing right away.

Everyone makes mistakes, we've all seen loads of hilarious incidents in our time (I once saw a guy shoot a grenade thinking it was smoke to cover his squad "OH **** THAT WASN'T SMOKE!"), so take it easy on the guy and tell him what he could improve on and continue on to your objective.

[Buren06]

I gathered all my PR knowledge by just keeping my head down as an anonymous rifleman. I learned from others and didn't make too many blunders in the meantime.

[Triggerfinger]

24/7 Muttrah, you mean the HoG server?
Newb friendly?
Nope.

[billysmall44]

Well the cool part of PR is it isnt real life. Some people get REALLY upset when i noob gums up their plans. I always take a second to lol at the person whos losing their shit over a game. there is always next round, and chances are the noob wont make the same mistake again.

on another note, when i was a noob i loved playing on the TG server, everyone seemed to be really friendly and helpful.

24/7 muttrah was not fun when i was a noob. in any sense. I still dont like.

[Murphy]

I gathered all my PR knowledge by just keeping my head down as an anonymous rifleman. I learned from others and didn't make too many blunders in the meantime.

Great advice. If you take your time to ensure you don't make a huge mistake and stick to it, you will become a good player in no time. Then once you've made it through the learning curve you can nub it up and just blame lag like everyone else.

[Gracler]

Just think of training mode as though it were a college classroom, a cooperative project with your fellow students to learn the information your instructor has asked you to learn before they hand you your degree.

I think of it more as a driving school when your getting your drivers license. Everything is safe in the theory.

Then you throw yourself in the real streets with your new license, then you will get the finger from some of the annoyed "experienced" people with no patience.

You can do all the practice in the world in a safe environment but you will still get bashed by the narrow sighted experienced players.

How are they supposed to learn the game if all you allow them is to use the rifleman kit? It is named "public" servers for a reason. Stop living in a glass jar.

[Rudd]

think the player quality has gone down with the removal of training mode. People start off playing COOP now (sometimes) before joining a real server and think that just because they can fly and tank against completely daft bots that they will instantly perform in a teamwork oriented server.

whereas if they can blow up stationary vehicles in the kashan bunkers in training mode, then they are certainly ready for combat!!

COOP can be used in the same manner as training, except that there are moving targets...

and utilizing recent gameplay updates such as base protection shields)

those shields aren't dependent on gamemode, but on staticobjects.con - i.e. they are always there

[Qadis]

The new guys are tommorows team players.. Be nice and get them early^^

That's what I'm hoping for, but I wonder how many people that try PR actually stay around for longer than a month or two, if that. Sadly, I think that most of the teaching for new players ends up wasted :<

Well the cool part of PR is it isnt real life. Some people get REALLY upset when i noob gums up their plans. I always take a second to lol at the person whos losing their shit over a game. there is always next round, and chances are the noob wont make the same mistake again.

Well he can't screw your plans too much if he follows your orders and you don't give him an important role, so really it's the SLs fault. Though it's easy for a noob to be trigger happy, and sometimes he can start shooting during a squad's silent approach to a cache as BLUFOR (after the SL gives the order of not shooting without permission, ofc), it can be quite rageworthy.

P.S.
PR IS real life.