Need help finalising new & first build (and questions)

[Ramjali]

(Note: when you glance at this post it may look long so i have emplaced strategically colorful fonts and (similes????)/smileys to help with the separate areas and make it look less boring)
And note the "?" is actually GPB (Great britain pounds) and the forum keeps changing pounds to question marks

I am building a new desktop for Arma 2 : PR mod, Battlefield 3 and Red Orchestra 2
and i need some help. (Plz note im trying to build with price/ performance value with the future in mind (AM3+ board) and good all-rounder.

If you have/had a similar build please tell me how it went.

Also I am going use some hardware from old computer. And this is gonna be my first build so i may not be a jargon dictionary. (but i have some experience putting GPU , CPU, PSU , RAM, HDD, DVD drives in my old computer but no experience in Overclocking, FSB and whatnot)

I have chosen the following components to buy:
ASUS M5A97 PRO - motherboard - ATX - Socket AM3+ - AMD 970
(4 DIMM slots - DDR3 SDRAM , non-ECC , unbuffered - 1600 MHz, 1333 MHz, 1066 MHz, 1866 MHz ) - ?78.83
https://www.crescentelectronics.co.uk/a ... -amd-970-0

Corsair Vengeance memory - 8 GB : 2 x 4 GB - DIMM 240-pin - DDR3
(DDR3 SDRAM, 1866 MHz ( PC3-15000 ),CL9 ( 9-9-9-24 ),1.5 V , Non-ECC, unbuffered ) - ?55.64
https://www.crescentelectronics.co.uk/c ... pin-ddr3-0

AMD Black Edition AMD Phenom II X4 965 / 3.4 GHz processor
(125W, Unreg. DIMMs up to PC2 8500 (DDR2-1066MHz) and PC3 1333 (DDR3-1333MHz) - ?92.62
https://www.crescentelectronics.co.uk/p ... -processor

Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium w/SP1 - licence and media - ?70.26
https://www.crescentelectronics.co.uk/p ... -and-media

Cooler Master RC-430-KWN1 Elite 430 Midi Tower with Window - Black -?39.47
Cooler Master RC-430-KWN1 Elite 430 Midi Tower with Window - Black: Amazon.co.uk: Computers & Accessories

Western Digital 2TB SATA 6Gbps Power Saving Internal Hard Drive OEM - Caviar Green - Western Digital - ?62.99
Western Digital 2TB SATA 6Gbps Power Saving Internal Hard Drive OEM - Caviar Green: Amazon.co.uk: Computers & Accessories

Total cost - Around ?400 (with free delivery)


If the RAM is not compatible are these a good alternative??? (And which one???)
KHX1600C9AD3K2/4G Kingston HyperX Genesis memory - 4 GB : 2 x 2 GB - DIMM 240-pin - DDR3
CMX4GX3M2A1600C9 Corsair XMS3 memory - 4 GB : 2 x 2 GB - DIMM 240-pin - DDR3


The scavenged components from old computer:

ATI 5770 xfx 1gb

PSU
550W CIT ATX PSU : ATX Power Supplies : Maplin

HDD 500gb

Some wires

2x Optical DVD drives


Also have the hardware ie monitor, keyboard, mouse etc etc


The questions that lingers in my mind are:

If you do not have time please answer question 1, 2 atleast as they are the most problematic

1. The memory RAM specs are shown to be 1866 MHz ( PC3-15000 ) but the mobo shows support for 1866MHz but nothing about PC3 thingy so is it compatible???? If not good or compatible please choose a good alternative with same or lower price and please tell me the problem.

2. The memory RAM specs are shown to be 1866 MHz ( PC3-15000 ) but the CPU specs are shown to be : Unreg. DIMMs up to PC2 8500 (DDR2-1066MHz) and PC3 1333 (DDR3-1333MHz) - (At AMD Phenom II X4 965 Black Edition CPU Review - HotHardware ) and does not match with the specs, so would it be compatible??? If not good or compatible please choose a good alternative with same or lower price and please tell me the problem.

3. Would everything fit in the case??? (PS: I am probably gonna upgrade GPU to 6950 later then flash it to 6970 and also buy new PSU with it).

4. Would i need additional fans for the case?? ( not looking to overclock immediately)

5. Is the stock fan good for CPU??? ( not looking to overclock immediately)

6. Is the chosen mobo & RAM future proof???

7. Are the CPU and 5770 gpu good OC'er and good at bf3 at 1280x1024 or 1366x768 ???

8. What does MHz do on the RAM ( I heard it makes OC,ing the CPU better???) ??? And other benefits please...

9. Is the whole PC good all rounder with potentials?? (choose AM3+ board for this reason solely)

10. Can 6950 be paired with 5770 in CF or by other means????

11. Has the Current PSU got all the connectors and is it compatible with the new components??? - (i think it's 550W CIT ATX PSU : ATX Power Supplies : Maplin)

12. Is the OS CD compatible for a new install ???
https://www.crescentelectronics.co.uk/p ... -and-media

13. Any components missing (note i will be taking wires from old comp but if there are new or recently released wires please tell me)

Thanks for your help and prioritize this post because im thinking of buying this week or next but if your prone to make mistakes please take your time and recheck and also please answer if you are an expert or have experience. Your help will help me out and possibly other new builders alot

[Pedz]

If you do not have time please answer question 1, 2 atleast as they are the most problematic

1. The memory RAM specs are shown to be 1866 MHz ( PC3-15000 ) but the mobo shows support for 1866MHz but nothing about PC3 thingy so is it compatible???? If not good or compatible please choose a good alternative with same or lower price and please tell me the problem.

The ram will work fine, you may have to 'downclock' it. This is because the motherboard and CPU are stated to support less mhz (1333) However you may be able to overclock it to the memory's stated clock speed, but putting pressure on the motherboard to perform here, so not advised, or necessary.


2. The memory RAM specs are shown to be 1866 MHz ( PC3-15000 ) but the CPU specs are shown to be : Unreg. DIMMs up to PC2 8500 (DDR2-1066MHz) and PC3 1333 (DDR3-1333MHz) - (At AMD Phenom II X4 965 Black Edition CPU Review - HotHardware ) and does not match with the specs, so would it be compatible??? If not good or compatible please choose a good alternative with same or lower price and please tell me the problem.

The Ram is compatible. Maybe OTT, but for ?55 you cant go wrong :S thats one cheap store you have found there..

3. Would everything fit in the case??? (PS: I am probably gonna upgrade GPU to 6950 later then flash it to 6970 and also buy new PSU with it).

Yes, always nice to have extra room, it might be a tight fit, but it will fit afaik

4. Would i need additional fans for the case?? ( not looking to overclock immediately)

It is good to keep it cool, however you will not if you get a good CPU cooler, as that'll be the main heat source in your build. (aslong has you have 2 fans, one fan pushing air in the front, and one pushing it out the rear, that'll be just dandy).

5. Is the stock fan good for CPU??? ( not looking to overclock immediately)

If you are not looking to OC, then yes it will be fine, however you will probably require the two other fans as stated in Q4, to keep the temps down and airflow good.

6. Is the chosen mobo & RAM future proof???

The Ram certainly, the mobo, with AMD most likely, however mobo's never seem to last long in my experience, other than what AMD seem to do, Intel seem to release a new mobo for every new processor they make, unsure when AMD plan on the next mobo replacement.

7. Are the CPU and 5770 gpu good OC'er and good at bf3 at 1280x1024 or 1366x768 ???
The CPU should be fine, unsure about the GPU. (cant remember the BF3 min specs)

8. What does MHz do on the RAM ( I heard it makes OC,ing the CPU better???) ??? And other benefits please...

The MHz of ram is how many times it can cycle a block of memory. Improving this number means more data can be stored, read, deleted and repaired at faster speeds, and therefore increasing 'memory bandwidth'. It can increase the CPU's potential, as that is the main source of the CPU's short term storage. However it will generally not increase FPS much as most programs do not use much of it anyway.

9. Is the whole PC good all rounder with potentials?? (choose AM3+ board for this reason solely)

It will not be the best, intel seem to be dominating the CPU market, but for the price it will be unbeatable



10. Can 6950 be paired with 5770 in CF or by other means????

No. If it does, it will clock the 6950 down to the speed of the 5770, and therefore cause a decrease in performance. Best just to completely replace the 5770 or possibly sell it to a friend for ?20 .

11. Has the Current PSU got all the connectors and is it compatible with the new components??? - (i think it's 550W CIT ATX PSU : ATX Power Supplies : Maplin)

If the 5770 has 1 PCI-E connector, then yes. if it has two, then no.

12. Is the OS CD compatible for a new install ???
https://www.crescentelectronics.co.uk/p ... -and-media

Yes

13. Any components missing (note i will be taking wires from old comp but if there are new or recently released wires please tell me)

I would only suggest one thing. Take another look for other HDD's I have heard bad things about the caviar green varients by WD, the blacks are great, however I may have heard bad things about the caviar blues, unsure, however I would still advise to check some others out possible Seagate or even the WD caviar blacks.

Thanks for your help and prioritize this post because im thinking of buying this week or next but if your prone to make mistakes please take your time and recheck and also please answer if you are an expert or have experience. Your help will help me out and possibly other new builders alot

Have to note, that crescent electronics website is the worst site I have navigated in a while o.o

I don't know if you have checked these sites out but the main sites for PC builds I use are:

http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/
http://www.scan.co.uk/

[Ramjali]

1.So, the RAM that the CPU can support is up to 1366mhz at native speed (or something different)???

2. If 1866mhz RAM is compatible, would the stress be less for the 1866mhz models becuase when (you lower the set speed then increase the speed or OC it because it is already at a higher native speed)????

3. And if i but the 1600mhz model do i need to lessen the speed??? (then increase it to 1600<????mhz)

4. How much difference would the RAM or the latency timings make in gaming and booting speeds???

[Beee8190]

@Ramjali

There are couple things to consider before I/we start on recommending hardware though

1. What is your budget
2. When would you like to have the PC done (do you need one right now or can wait 2-3 months?)
3. Aside form games you mentioned, will you do some heavy video editing etc..?

[Pedz]

1.So, the RAM that the CPU can support is up to 1366mhz at native speed (or something different)???

Yes 1333 normally

2. If 1866mhz RAM is compatible, would the stress be less for the 1866mhz models becuase when (you lower the set speed then increase the speed or OC it because it is already at a higher native speed)????

Yes,

3. And if i but the 1600mhz model do i need to lessen the speed??? (then increase it to 1600<????mhz)

Yes if you buy 1600mhz ram the problem is still there, the mobo will automatically down clock it to its specified value 1333, you can then manually overclock it it 1600 but as described before, you will see very little difference.

4. How much difference would the RAM or the latency timings make in gaming and booting speeds???

Very small. One advantage of getting higher clocked ram is you may be able to decrease the clock, and then decrease the timing also, so it may be stated as yours is at 9 9 9, you may be able to clock it down to 1333 mhz and decrease the clock to 7 8 7, but again, no noticeable difference.

[Ramjali]

1. While I agree with Pedz that it will work with your computer, I disagree with his assertion that you shouldn't overclock the ram to it's standards (1866MHz). What's the point in buying the expensive ram if you do not run it at full speed? Also, 1866MHz is within the specs of your motherboard. You'll probably have to enter the bios and manually set the speed, I remember hearing about ram that allows the motherboard to read it's default settings but I'm not too sure on the validity of that and how common that would be.
Also, I don't bother buying expensive ram... I bought Kingston value ram for my high end pc I can easily overclock it to 1600MHz CL9, however I run it at 1331MHz with lower timings (6, 8, 6, 21, 1T from memory). I don't think the extra bandwidth is really necessary, something that you'd only notice in benchmarks.

Also, the pc3-15000 is just another way of saying 1866MHz DDR3 ram (that's why they've got it in brackets).

2. That's just the stock setting of the memory controller on the cpu. It will handle any overclock on the ram just fine.

8. The higher the MHz the higher the bandwidth. This means you can push more memory through it within a certain length of time. To be honest, I don't think you need to worry about going over 1333MHz. You can save your money by not buying the more expensive "enthusiast" ram, though it can be fun to get the most out of your ram too if you're into that kind of thing. Whether you buy the expensive ram is up to you, like I said, it's my opinion that it doesn't have a big impact on real world performance.

Another thing to consider is latency or timings, generally they'll (the people producing the ram) only mention the Cas latency which is considered/portrayed to be the most important. It's most often expressed as CLx where x is a number; for example for CL9 timings typically it would be (9, 9, 9, 24) However, note that only the first number (9, x, x, x) is the cas timing, the others are independent of the Cas setting.
Note that latency values aren't based on seconds but on cycles aka Hz. Consider two sets of ram, first is 1600MHz and second is 1333MHz. Both have a cas latency of CL9. Of the two examples, the 1600MHz, despite the same cas latency setting, would offer lower latency than the 1333MHz ram; this is because the 1600MHz ram has shorter cycles so the 9 cycles for the Cas latency would occur over a shorter period then for the 1333MHz ram.

For further reading of ram timings you can refer to these two articles:
Info: Ram Timings For Dummies. - Overclock.net - Overclocking.net

Understanding RAM Timings | Hardware Secrets

Exiled.

@Ramjali

There are couple things to consider before I/we start on recommending hardware though

1. What is your budget
Around ?400 GBP GPU and psu excluded
2. When would you like to have the PC done (do you need one right now or can wait 2-3 months?)
Right about now
3. Aside form games you mentioned, will you do some heavy video editing etc..?
Nope, Although might do some extracting of everyday downloads

1. around 400gbp or lower
2.right now
3. nope

[RyanJC]

Ditch the WD "green" hard drive. It's for storage, not OS. Also, ditch the power supply, it's junk from what I can tell. Get a power supply from a reputable company with good amperage on the 12v rail.

You're getting an AM3+ board but mating it with a AM3 CPU. If you wait about a month to month and a half, you can get AMD's new CPU, Bulldozer. With regards to the RAM, AM3 processors benefit greatly from lower timings.

[Beee8190]

Ditch the WD "green" hard drive. It's for storage, not OS. Also, ditch the power supply, it's junk from what I can tell. Get a power supply from a reputable company with good and stable amperage on the 12v rail.

Fixed
I agree, that PSU is atrocious.I have HX 750W from corsair and aside of its impressive silence its also under 7 year guarantee.I can well recommend one
As of HDD, for primary I'd get WD caviar black 64Mb cache / 7200rpm or Samsung F1/F3 with same params.

CPU - that Asus board should do fine ( as long it got AM3+ socket )
I'd advice on getting some cheaper CPU than X4 965 BE CPU and saving that bit for FX bulldozer CPU, as they hit the preorder and will be kick ***


AMD FX Series Processors Hit Pre-Order

RAM - honestly, the cheapest DDR3 ram with reasonable latencies will do the job, you won't recognize 2100Mhz or 1333Mhz IRL / gaming nor any significant increase in benchmark numbers.IMO just not worth it and couple more pounds towards better CPU or GPU than RAM is rather always wise move.

Venegance 1600Mhz are cheap enough to get 8GB and if you can, get the line with LT 8 (latency
If not, RIP Jaws from G skill offer tight (low) latency RAM too
Also, I wouldnt worry about OC'ing, as long as u have decent PSU and MOBO, RAM can take some ''punch'' and even than theres no point to push the RAM from 1600MHz to 1866Mhz just for 1FPS in game...( well it might be as much as 5 FPS in some cases i imagine )

DVD-ROM- whatever..if you can find one that is cheap enough and has BLU RAY reader, go for it else DVD burner will most likely do

Case- yeah, that cooler master can take even big cards like 6950 plus it has removable HDD bays at the bottom,so all should be good
( tidy cables inside case to get nice breezy airflow though )

As of Windows 7, you might get one way cheaper if youre student or if you upgrade from your old Windows

[Ramjali]

Thanks for the help guys. I bought the stuff that were originally chosen except the HDD and the RAM which are -

Seagate ST2000DL003 Barracuda Green 3.5-inch 2TB SATA 6 Gb/s Drive (64MB Buffer,5900RPM)
Seagate ST2000DL003 Barracuda Green 3.5-inch 2TB SATA 6 Gb/s Drive (64MB Buffer,5900RPM): Amazon.co.uk: Computers & Accessories
?59 GBP

Kingston HyperX memory - 8 GB : 2 x 4 GB - DIMM 240-pin - DDR3
https://www.crescentelectronics.co.uk/p ... 0-pin-ddr3
?35.75 GBP

[Pedz]

Nice, hope the build goes well . Just remember to fit the CPU cooler before putting the Motherboard on the case... =] (I did not and had to take it off again xD