Never any jets or attack helos vs. taliban/insurgents

[40mmrain]

This thread is a bit of a suggestion, and a bit of a question. Or, feedback on insurgency maps, and my opinion on what could be changed.

Why is there no map where blufor uses attack helicopters, or CAS jets on insurgency?

The first issue i can think of is balance. Not only is the strela-3 less than reliable against a heavy air asset, its the only anti air option. Secondly, due to the nature of the cache system simply BOMBARDING cache areas is way too easy.

These reasons are enough to completely stray devs from ever implementing these assets against insurgents, but I feel they would be fun to use, fun to destroy, provide a realistic feel for both sides, and could be implemented fairly.

First: anti air options. To my knowledge the taliban and insurgents only get 1 anti air kit. I suggest when heavy air assets are present this number doubles for taliban and TRIPLES for the insurgents, allowing for defense of the cache fairly sound. Secondly, i suggest giving the taliban the ability to build a stationary AA similar to the way the SPG is done. This would be the same gun that is seen in many MEC and russian bases. What these suggestions mean, is that shooting down, and defending from enemy heavy air is more than viable with these assets.

Second: Preventing constant aerial bombardment. This will consist of a few things. The first against insurgents is the civilians. A civilian completely locks down an area from bombardment due to how painful the ticket, respawn and intel loss is. I suggest that when killing civilians with heavy air the "2 minute spawn before penalty" is omitted or reduced allowing for civis to spawn into the cache and defend it without having to wait, and that when killing unarmed civis the respawn time of the chopper or jet once it gets shot down is lengthened. Of course civi spam wouldnt make air support useless considering how many vehicles insurgents receive, along with how deadly precise the cannon on an attack helo is. The second is long reload time of arms. Essentially if it takes 5-10 minutes for hellfires and LGB to come back the bombing has to be used strategically, or with long periods between. This promotes communication with infantry, and not just DURR I BOMB CACHE LOL.

Third: Asset forfeit. A bardley, aav, lav and a supercobra assault 1 cache would be incredibly overwhelming, and cheap. Trading a chopper for a few pieces of armor would make it more fair for the insurgents

Now that I have made my points I will make a few suggestions.

Alt Lashkar valley: BLUFOR base expanded to have a second helipad, no APCs are given, and a tiger is availble.

another Alt Al Basrah: no challenger, no warrior, and an apache is available. More transport trucks available for brits. Less bombcars, and more techis for insurgents.

[Reddeath]

Sangin is a 4km WIP with an airstrip and there is video from PR Con of an Apache in use on the map. So we got that to look forward to.

[Rhino]

as RD said, this video from 3:20 to 5:15 features sangin, although very much a work in progress, it dose feature air assets vs taliban

[Von_Gnome]

A little of topic, but a deployable Zpu-4 would be nice for the insurgents

[Rudd]

Kokan and Karbala both have Kiowas.

generally its considered the realm of a 4k insurgency to have a strong CAS presence, and there are various moves towards this, with a great deal of discussion/implementation on how to make it fair and fun for the insurgency as well as blufor - we aren't just gonna shove in CAS without balancing it out do not fear

[40mmrain]

Yes balance is always an issue, I agree.

Im happy to see sangin with an apache, and I will be using it as soon as it is released. If it proves to be fair, would the devs consider my suggestion of more heavy air assets on insurgency maps?

please :3

[Bob of Mage]

Also what about Hamas or the Militia? The Militia might have some options to fight CAS with out going over the top in changes. One of course is to give them back the AA FOB asset which was taken for who knows why. There is even the option to have an INS map with Militia air power (most likely the Hind to finally stop people begging for it).

[mattnett1]

I hope they have jets.... That will be more realistic. But it's SO annoying that when people create like 9 sqd's just to get a jet.

[oakman26]

ZPU4 seems op as a deployable, why not a ZPU2? half the firepower

[MrTomRobs]

I like the idea of OpFor getting a ZPUx against air assets... adds another dimension to the game mode, and i know there are a few players that don't like playing insurgency because they are (pretty much) forced to play as infantry when they enjoy being tank commanders or A/C gunners, and the insurgency will have to use a little bit more structure rather than having loads of lonewolves (which happens all too often for my liking)

[PFunk]

Kiowa already pwns the insurgents on Kokan, but thats largely due to the caches being in those conveniently isolated mini villages which makes focusing in fire from the air easy without massive talk throughs on every run.

Karbala is a bit less severe I think.

Lashkar could be a good option for CAS. Plenty of valleys and caves to give the INS a fighting chance. But no idea if it would actually bork the balance totally.

[lucky.BOY]

When we put ZPU ingame, it will most probably end up being used against infantry most of the time. The bad thing is, even as a MEC on Mutrah I would prefer deployable ZPUs over AA missiles. What could we do to fight these problems, that will come with deployable ZPUs?

Some ideas of me:
-only ZPU2, as ZPU4 has too much firepower.
-make it inaccurate. Inaccuracy is always bad against infantry, while to some degree it can help if you are trying to hit a moving aircraft.
-add a noticable bullet drop. This will nerf it in comparison to AA missiles (the deployable ones), and MG nests.

Another idea - the gun could have zero defenses, it wozld be just the gun itself on a pile of dust. HOWEVER, it could also have nest similar to insurgents' mortar pits, that would force the gun operator to fire up, significantly decreasing his anti-infantry capabilities.

-lucky

[Vista]

You can make a map and balance it like Basrah 0.5 (AKA Lag Basrah), as the USA had 2 Cobras and 2 A-10s.

How to balance? Give INS lotta quad guns...

I think that a heavy-asseted 4km map would be very fun!

[saXoni]

A10 > Quad gun

[Xander[nl]]

When we put ZPU ingame, it will most probably end up being used against infantry most of the time.

What could we do to fight these problems, that will come with deployable ZPUs?

Just add a terrible gun depression; make it unable to shoot ground targets.
If this is too unrealistic simply add a high sandbag wall so it can't see ground targets.

[Maverick]

Al Basrah .5 is what you're looking for mate

[Stealthgato]

With all the heavy assets with thermals and rifles with scopes and HATs and grenadiers and marksmen and snipers I don't think ZPUs engaging infantry is a big problem anymore. Plus if there's heavy CAS then there's no problem at all. Only balanced.

[Navo]

Didn't we use to have a deployable ZPU, but it got removed because that thing was incredible effective versus APC's and infantry?

[Shovel]

Even though fallujah is 1km, a cobra would be epicsauce.

[saXoni]

Even though fallujah is 1km, a cobra would be epicsauce.

For who?