Decrease hideout building distance to 125m.

[dtacs]

Situation

Hideouts can only be built at a distance of 200m from eachother, in the same fashion as conventional factions

Problem

For Insurgents on maps where majority of caches are in a smaller area of the map (IE Basrah) this means having multiple Hideouts further away from the objective. When there are less Hideouts close to the objective, fighting between the BLUFOR and Insurgents becomes increasingly sporadic, losing its intensity.

An example of this is below, where if the Hideout next to the known cache is destroyed, the Taliban have no choice but to fall back to the cache, as there is no way of reinforcing it without running from a distance. If this method was introduced, there would be a smaller, centralized defense, discouraging both ninjaing and lone assaults.



Solution

For all map sizes, decrease the minimum Hideout distance to 125m. It still allows the Insurgents to build hideouts networks at larger distances, but also gives the option to have a defense nice and tight when necessary on maps such as Kokan, where compounds are small and confined.

Note this suggestion doesn't apply to the Militia.

[Dev1200]

Situation

Hideouts can only be built at a distance of 200m from eachother, in the same fashion as conventional factions

Problem

For Insurgents on maps where majority of caches are in a smaller area of the map (IE Basrah) this means having multiple Hideouts further away from the objective. When there are less Hideouts close to the objective, fighting between the BLUFOR and Insurgents becomes increasingly sporadic, losing its intensity.

An example of this is below, where if the Hideout next to the known cache is destroyed, the Taliban have no choice but to fall back to the cache, as there is no way of reinforcing it without running from a distance. If this method was introduced, there would be a smaller, centralized defense, discouraging both ninjaing and lone assaults.



Solution

For all map sizes, decrease the minimum Hideout distance to 125m. It still allows the Insurgents to build hideouts networks at larger distances, but also gives the option to have a defense nice and tight when necessary on maps such as Kokan, where compounds are small and confined.

Note this suggestion doesn't apply to the Militia.

200m doesn't take that long to run.

If the insurgents are conservative, and use hit and run tactics, they can do very well not to die against bluefor.

[General Dragosh]

If the insurgents are conservative, and use hit and run tactics, they can do very well not to die against bluefor.

3 Words

Players
are
hardcoded

[Bufl4x]

Good idea. Hideouts are supposed to simulate a network of undeground tunnels anyway, so the more the better.
And also the fact that insurgents are living in that area so they could be coming from anywhere.

[Dev1200]

3 Words

Players
are
hardcoded

True.

But lets not pretend that everyone is tacticool milsim players ;P

Or even good players, at that.

[Sgt.Desert Tiger[TR]]

Do you notice that I dont know but when you look at game bluefors can easily move anywhere on the map than opfors and for me its stupit.Because its their(opfors) lands, they have already tunnel networks + safe houses + hiding spots in there.

So opfors can move quickly and safely than bluefors in RL but in game if you try to move 1 area to another if there is a bluefor inf you cant.Because their sniper like weaps hit 300m distance and insurgent maps maded on %60 open ground than city.

Cache locations must be remade.Because too many times(mostly in Taliban maps) they are spawn at open grounds without protection and this make everything harder.2 days ago I played on Ramiel and 1st known cache spawn on building without cover so heli spam rocets for destroy it.

If you solve that problem insurgency gameplay will be improve.

[Arnoldio]

Id say 150. Insurgents have no tickets to lose so its kind of balanced to have more distance inbetween hideouts, otherwise there is too much of them.

[Bufl4x]

Insurgents have no tickets to lose

Common misconception. Sure they don't lose tickets, but every death counts as an intelligence point for bluefor, making them find caches easier.
The "hey i'm an insurgent, i don't care if i die" mentality is is probably the biggest flaw of this gamemode and one of the most unrealistic aspects of the whole mod.

[dtacs]

Common misconception. Sure they don't lose tickets, but every death counts as an intelligence point for bluefor, making them find caches easier.
The "hey i'm an insurgent, i don't care if i die" mentality is is probably the biggest flaw of this gamemode and one of the most unrealistic aspects os the whole mod.

This. The illusion that Insurgents can die as much as they want is what causes the intel flow.

200m doesn't take that long to run.

200m isn't through and around buildings, obstacles, rivers and more importantly enemies. The distance is relative in different situations, and in most situations this suggestion negates it.

[Psyrus]

As a fellow "non-herp-derp" insurgent (ex) SL, I would like to agree with this suggestion, and I recall I made a similar suggestion about two years ago, but I don't think it was in its own thread, more in one of the countless discussions that have happened over the years. My suggestion was to decrease the distance between the hideouts (I think I suggested exactly the same number!) AND to increase the total number of hideouts [6->8] to compensate for the lack of rally points and cache spawns expiring.

This was before mortars though, and to be honest I don't think the number of hideouts really needs to be increased anymore because mortars (if used to ANY kind of effectiveness) render blufor/enemy fobs useless. I actually have some pretty strong feelings about mortars and that they've overall hurt the game by removing the ability to really "bunker down and defend", but that's not really relevant to this thread.

This. The illusion that Insurgents can die as much as they want is what causes the intel flow.

With regards to the 'insurgents', having 2-3 skilled collaborators getting martyred once in a while (attached to a squad or just doing it decently alone) can negate the intel flow, but of course this can be a double edged sword when they're silly enough to get themselves arrested -_-*. Taliban/Militia definitely need to play more conventionally (as evidenced by their rally points and lack of collaborators).

[Bringerof_D]

@desert tiger: there is a thread for that in the Maps feedback section. go deal with that there and stop trying to hijack everyone else's threads on other insurgency related issues. at 300m you can still out gun blufor with AKs. you just need to work in a squad and put fire on them semi auto as a group. for the last time, you shouldnt even be trying to engage blufor at over 200m anyhow. you are doing it wrong.

back on topic:
agree with op, the minimum distance needs to be dropped for fact that it is a hide out not an FOB, it should be capable of being, realistically, any building nearby. i say drop it to say 100m.

i would also recommend lowering the distance to over run the hide out just slightly. or if possible change it to a system where it isn't only judging range. If i recall there was a thread somewhere about making objects draw only if the geo is visible to the player, meaning if it is behind the next hill or building it does not render. if at all possible i would like a similar idea be used on the hide outs. the blufor must be within x meters of the cache and be able to see it before spawning is stopped.

[Arnoldio]

Common misconception. Sure they don't lose tickets, but every death counts as an intelligence point for bluefor, making them find caches easier.
The "hey i'm an insurgent, i don't care if i die" mentality is is probably the biggest flaw of this gamemode and one of the most unrealistic aspects of the whole mod.

4/5 of the palyerbase is most unrealistic aspect of this whole mod tbh...

Also i was talking about the sheer amount of insurgents coming in, the inability of blufor to get shit done, because the masses of insurgents rushing in, instead of using guerila tactics. Bringing hideouts closer, there will be more and more spam. Of what use is intelligence if you get raped over and over again. Ofcourse you could do the same thing aswell with bluefor, but say goodbye to tickets in an hour. This all is based on an example of both teams being equally able.

[Bringerof_D]

4/5 of the palyerbase is most unrealistic aspect of this whole mod tbh...

Also i was talking about the sheer amount of insurgents coming in, the inability of blufor to get shit done, because the masses of insurgents rushing in, instead of using guerila tactics. Bringing hideouts closer, there will be more and more spam. Of what use is intelligence if you get raped over and over again. Ofcourse you could do the same thing aswell with bluefor, but say goodbye to tickets in an hour. This all is based on an example of both teams being equally able.

true and not at the same time, remember that blufor have the advantage at range, so they usually just sit back and pound them till they get enough intel to get the next cache

[Redamare]

I think it makes sense it would give a greater ability to defend what you need to defend . .. 150 M should be more than enough YES it only takes a few seconds to run that far but if you could make 2 fobs/hideouts in close proximity you can have stronger defenses.

[Tartantyco]

The distance at which hideouts are neutralized when BLUFOR is close should also be shortened.

[Mouthpiece]

Agree with the suggestion. But 150m IMO would be good.

The distance at which hideouts are neutralized when BLUFOR is close should also be shortened.

+ 1

As noted, hideout is a totally different thing than a FOB (yet the same function ingame). So, yeah, smaller neutralization radius would be great.