Flares and Countermeasures

[KnightFandragon]

SO, ive been flying the A10s alot lately and finding the Flares to be absolutely useless. I even manned a Stinger site and saw 1st hand the flares totally failing for the MiG. I watchd one of my missiles hit a flare then keep on going, did a 90 degree turn and hit hte mig anyway. I also watched a Rocket hit my flare i deployed and blew me up anyway. So, seriously? Do Flares do anything or are they just there for kicks?

[ma21212]

Well I fly alot of CAS helicopters and they help out alot....

[Rudd]

they aren't 100%, but they work, many a time I've seen or manned AA positions where flares have prevented me from hitting my target. But its not just a matter of 'x', some of the better pilots can explain it better, but you gotta get away from your flares and away from teh AA or you'll still be a viable option for the SAM to hit.

[KnightFandragon]

they aren't 100%, but they work, many a time I've seen or manned AA positions where flares have prevented me from hitting my target. But its not just a matter of 'x', some of the better pilots can explain it better, but you gotta get away from your flares and away from teh AA or you'll still be a viable option for the SAM to hit.

Well, knowing where the missile is coming from is the problem.....I fly the A10 and it isnt all that fast, those SAMs travel 10x the speed of now. I usually just assume its the MiG tracking me. Is the BRDM2 with hte Rockets on the roof an AA Vehicle as well? I have been shot as infantry by it and I know in BF1942 Desert Combat it shot down my A10 there as well.....So is it AA? If so then I guess I'll have to keep a betterl ook out for those things.

[heavytiger]

:really i find no problem with the flares.

[Phantom2]

I hit an A-10 with an IGLA, despite it deployed flares about 3 seconds prior to launch, how is that fair?

[ralfidude]

Flares are rather sh*t.

As it is right now, hand held AA can be fired as an RPG at aircraft. You do not need to wait for a lock tone, and the missile will hit the target.

It really doesnt matter if you pop flares 10 seconds prior to ur run or not. Unless you are in a fast aircraft like a f16, you will die.

For example a10. SLOWWwwww as hell, and popping under cloud cover is suicide. Best to use bombs from up high and never come down hahahha.

They do help at times... like... 2/10 times...

[Q2M100]

I honestly have zero problem with the flares. They are not a fool-proof way of evading a missile, but with the right tactics, they are an invaluable tool.

If you are not having much luck using flares in the jets, you are not using them correctly. They are meant to aid in deflecting a missile lock, not stop it altogether. If the flares aren't in between you and the missile, they are pretty darn useless.

Try sharp turns and evasive maneuvers when dealing with a missile lock. An easy, but completely effective maneuver is to pull up and do a 180 and then repeat the maneuver a second time (Immelmann turn - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia). This will make you gain a ton of altitude while concealing your true location.

[Maverick]

The flares barely work for me. I deploy those things, even before I get the damn lock and BAM. And Evasive manuvers won't work against a MiG.(I fly F16 ) Those missiles WILL hit no matter what. All in all, jet combat MUST be overhauled. Just as the helicopter physics must be overhauled. Combined Arms did this REALLY well.

[ralfidude]

I honestly have zero problem with the flares. They are not a fool-proof way of evading a missile, but with the right tactics, they are an invaluable tool.

If you are not having much luck using flares in the jets, you are not using them correctly. They are meant to aid in deflecting a missile lock, not stop it altogether. If the flares aren't in between you and the missile, they are pretty darn useless.

Try sharp turns and evasive maneuvers when dealing with a missile lock. An easy, but completely effective maneuver is to pull up and do a 180 and then repeat the maneuver a second time (Immelmann turn - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia). This will make you gain a ton of altitude while concealing your true location.

facepalm

Sir, have you flown in PR?

Lol, what do you think an enemy jet being locked does? pops flares and continues on in its journey on wards with no "sharp turns and evasive maneuvers"? Come on mate... We both know "those" are impossible in PR because of how limited a jets maneuverability really is due to the flight characteristics limited in bf2 engine. This is not Lock On Flaming Cliffs 2 we are talking about. You turn just as fast as the other jet. Period. There is no "Getting away". You pop flares and yank that stick as hard as you can whistl popping a flare a second to keep from getting locked on. And that only takes you so far, because in 30 flares, ur completely fu...d!

The ONLY ONLY fool proof way of getting away from a pursuer in PR is to go full afterburner straight up into the sky and then slightly pull the stick somewhere beyond 3500(Otherwise he will have his nose on you as you both stall exactly the same way, this way you turn off his nose as you stall), so that both you, and the jackass following you lose complete control over your planes in a stall. There is no death timer on a map like Kashan, so you can be out of bounds for 5 minutes. Iv done it before. However, that's only if you miraculously survive the initial contact of his missile missing you.

Evasive maneuvers... lol, that made my day.

[Mora]

Missiles don't see the flares as jets. They will go to it and afterwards find a new target, if no target is found they detonate i think.

What they should do is detonate them selfs in the same manner as they do with jets. That means they explode if they come near a flare. This is unfortunately not possible without complex workarounds.

The flare needs a inverted ball object around it. Otherwise it would block the flare it self. But ones inside it is trapped. The flare could then explode to get your missile impact.

This is i think the best option we have.

[Rhino]

Ye that idea and similar have been floating around for some time now but we haven't yet got round to testing them out.

[Mikemonster]

When i've shot the Ins AA missile at Kiowas it's always gone for the flares if they have been present. The chopper takes a hit sometimes anyway though because he pops flares and turns TOWARD the missile.. I.e. it hits him first.

If it's any consolation, even though we have the impression of an A-10 in the Fulda Gap flying at 30ft AGL strafing tanks in 'real life' in Afghanistan they cruise at 20,000ft and use their superior sensors to allow them to basically be a flying weapons dispenser. 20,000ft is the deck, any lower and handheld AA presents a serious threat.

Not sure what the relative altitudes would be in PR however.

[H.Maverick]

only times i find flares useful is when i'm in a trans chopper or dogfight with a F16 or any other fast aircraft

[Hunt3r]

The issue is that we really really need to have the jets be able to somehow see lases without being able to be targeted by MANPADs. AAVs are just unavoidable death and should be kept that way.

From there we need a targeting pod functionality because right now it feels like we're fighting with Vietnam technology.

[Zoddom]

wouldnt it just help to decrease the turning rate of missiles?
especially the hellfire and shturm have a ridiculous turning rate, you could even should behind you in flight...

[Hunt3r]

Hellfires honestly don't have the ability to turn very far from where they were pointed at.

[saXoni]

Hellfires honestly don't have the ability to turn very far from where they were pointed at.

Trust me, they do. I've shot down several helicopters, even though they're making sharp turns.

[Zoddom]

but thats not even exactly what i meant. i meant the angle at launch. the missile can be turning very (! nearly or more than 90degrees) hard ~20m after launch, and both that minimum range AND the turning rate are ridiculously unrealistic.

[Hunt3r]

Trust me, they do. I've shot down several helicopters, even though they're making sharp turns.

I meant IRL. IRL shooting down helicopters requires the one on the receiving end to pretty much hover, and even then it can be iffy. Takes luck.

Oh, and you're limited to like a 90 degree cone around the center crosshair of the helo, and aimed a bit low. If you wanted a hard-turning missile, pick the AIM-9.