Abusive SLs

[Psyrus]

Apologise on the internet? Like anybody gives a damn.

Treat others how you'd prefer to be treated... it applies on the internet as well imo

[Rudd]

Apologise on the internet? Like anybody gives a damn.

No1 cares if you don't, but they appreciate it if you do - apologising when you are wrong is the sign of a man instead of a child imo.

[AK47 WARRIOR]

I Agree with you Rudd same Applies for psyrus

So This SL Must apologise for what he did because he mistreated The players and Ruined the game with bad words

[saXoni]

So This SL Must apologise for what he did because he mistreated The players and Ruined the game with bad words

If he was such a ****, I doubt he would apologize for his behavior.
Just forget about this guy. If you see him leading a squad again, don't join him. And of course; report him if he keeps mistreating people.

[Gaz]

May I apply to be your SL?

No1 cares if you don't, but they appreciate it if you do - apologising when you are wrong is the sign of a man instead of a child imo.

Whilst I agree with you, it's only fair to seek the other side of the argument before drawing judgement. SLs need shit done, and you seem to to be more interested in posting about it here than do what was asked? Just a thought, seeing as it's meant to be realism. Devil's advocate you see PR's no place for ********, in a SL position or otherwise. Teamwork starts at the base level gentlemen, or you can piss off elsewhere I believe You WILL find squads being treated as line infantry. This is what happens, gents. People like this can get shit done, or be absolutely useless. Judge them on results ingame, not how they hurt your feelings. What you're simulating is not a happy clappy game, so don't take it to heart. You're simulating taking people's lives, and this isn't COD MW2. Im glad this debate is taking place; as it's one of the real reasons PR exists. To simulate the questions one asks themselves when carrying out 'what they are told to do'. How far will you go?

[Arc_Shielder]

To simulate the questions one asks themselves when carrying out 'what they are told to do'. How far will you go?

Even though this started as a rant, I'm also glad that this debate is taking place.

I don't think that's the right question, because if the SL is demanding something to be done then it's just how the game should be played. This is really just a matter of ethics as role-playing can only go too far. The notion of realism that some people are preaching is senseless in the perspective that SLs do not desert their squad members for doing things too slow aka kicking in the middle of a battle. Videogameland is a word of immersion but no one is entirely 100% in it, not even close, to simply ignore the variety of insults being thrown at you.

The question is if SLs should have a totalitarian right to dictate what's right or wrong regardless of what they do. This is what I find particularly disappointing in some people's opinion. If in some cases we badmouth and punish SLs that do not cooperate/get in mumble/gather his squad, why are we so benevolent to the other extreme?
This is not a valid type of leadership because people avoided COD like games expecting to find a more mature response from a tactical game community. Then I also find impossible to see how far the SL can go if the SMs do everything wrong - therefore slowing down the flow -, new members are constantly in rotation - and being hammered in the process -, not only hurting the SL chances of succeeding his plan but also the team.

This is simply not tolerable, mainly for ethical reasons, but I honestly can't see how in-game efficiency could this kind of leadership ever work with random pubbies.

The community response to SLs of this nature should be harsher. Same could be applied to SLs who do squat. Middle ground is always the wiser choice.

[doghouse]

I think the most common-sense replies have been made, and I'll echo them. If you don't like a SL, you leave the squad - it really is that simple.

I know when I first join a server or round begins, I'll look who are the SL's (unless I create a squad of course), and I'll certainly shy away from SL's I didn't enjoy working with.

I'm sure as SM's and SL's, we have expectations; and we do.

For me, I don't find bad attitude to be the worst factor in a terrible SL.

[Mikemonster]

There is a fine line between discipline and getting things done, and being a bad tempered *******.

I'd be surprised if I get it right.

But I'd like to think that 99% of the time when I have a go at a squad member it's for the right reasons, and if it's not I will find out what I misunderstood and apologise (usually a lot ).

I did the other day actually. I had a go at someone for giving in and not being reviveable when he could have stayed. Turns out I missed him saying he was spawning at a very close Ins FOB and also that he was doing it because both caches had already been revealed. I said sorry after explaining why I got the wrong impression.. The other squad guys were all poor communicators and I was getting downright irritated at the lack of cohesion, thought it was one of them that took the impatient option and gave up.

[B0ng_McPuffin]

I am sick of squad leaders treating EVERYONE like they are new players.

Yesterday I was on HOG on Muttrah city, and I joined the Transport squad because it was 1 dude and 4 choppers were up. I told him I could fly and I proved it by making 6-7 flawless drops in a row, yet he insisted on talking to me like I was a 12 year old kid that didn't know how to work a joystick.

The whole round, he kept giving me pointless and worthless advice, all of which I completely ignored because it made no sense, and he was clearly waaaay less experienced at flying than I was, but since he was squadleader, I just had to sit there and listen to his annoying advice for like 2 hours straight.

If your squad mates prove that they know how to fly, stop babying them! Maybe be leery on the first one or two trips he makes, but if he continuously makes successful run after successful run, and keeps his chopper for longer than you... LET THE MAN FLY AND DO HIS THING!

On the ground though is a different story... learn how your squad leader works... if you're Mr. McStealth and your squad leader is Rambo, then you're obviously going to butt-heads on how to play the game. Rambos should stick with Rambos, and Mr. McStealth should stick with other stealthy people or just go it alone.

Also, STOP using the VOIP for conversations! It lowers the ambient sounds significantly, and if I was listening for foot-steps coming around the corner and then suddenly you click your mic button and say some useless stuff or just laugh into the microphone (worst. thing. EVAR.) and get me killed, don't be surprised if I start cussing you out. I use my headphones more than I use my monitor honestly when it comes to tracking enemy movements.... and I can't do that if some Chatty Cathy is on VOIP for 5 minutes straight talking about some concert they went to!

As a SL I simply just tell my squad to SHUT UP when I'm in charge, unless we're all standing around a mortar pit or something less-than-fun like that. I hate creeping through a dense city, block by block, listening and watching and I get killed because I walk right into a whole squad that I didn't know was there because one of my team mates would just not SHUT the HELL UP!

[PFunk]

Good post, however 'a casual game of billiards'?

I was probably watching Deadwood that night and got caught up in florid language but was unable to counter it owing to the swear filter.

But yea. I stand by my original point. If you wouldn't yell in a real life recreational scenario, then you shouldn't yell now.

When I'm pissed in public play I just blame the pilots for crashing choppers in mumble.

I am sick of squad leaders treating EVERYONE like they are new players.

Yesterday I was on HOG on Muttrah city...

Yep, there's yer problem.

As a rule I try not to expect much of anything out of 24/7 servers. History has taught me that its where asset whores go to spam or unimaginative people go to play the one dimension of a game they understand, and no guaranteeing any of that is from the perspective of expertise.

NWA is good. TG is good. I've had great SL experiences on there. HOG and ]H[ tend to piss me off. I mean, I never see ]H[ mumble full. Never doesn't mean NEVER. Just that if you bet me a bj from Scarlett Johansson which mumble channel was the most full at any given day or hour, I'd never pick ]H[.

[Mikemonster]

As a SL I simply just tell my squad to SHUT UP when I'm in charge, unless we're all standing around a mortar pit or something less-than-fun like that. I hate creeping through a dense city, block by block, listening and watching and I get killed because I walk right into a whole squad that I didn't know was there because one of my team mates would just not SHUT the HELL UP!

And this, Mr.Puffin, is why we can't have nice things.

[Arnoldio]

In the end, you have to achieve squad cohesion. More unskilled players you hae, harder it is. I was SLin a squad with Web, Cyber, herbie and some other good guys, and i really didnt have to say much because guys did everything on their own. That happens when a squad people who know how to lead is made.

I have a friend tho. If i had 5 of those friends in my squad, i'd probbly rage and be pissed of by the lack of squads cohesion. BUT, if we go for spec ops work and stuff like that, we do extremely well most of the time. He doesnt get distracted by other SMs, and neither do i. I can give him short orders, pointers and its executed in a second. If i had 5 guys behind me and told one something that is beneficial to all of them, only he would listen, and at the end it waist 30 seconds explaining what they should be doing to everyone individually, waising my time, resulting in my squad getting killed.

And then there is patience, wich very little people have.

[Pvt.LHeureux]

Just had an abusive SL on *NwA*. Guys if you join *NwA* don't join the same squad as "*NwA*(something)Scotty", I was told by an admin that this guy lost his admin rights for doing the kind of bullshit he did yesterday with the squad I was in.

I was healing another guy than him? Teamkilled.
We encountered enemies, he said to shoot, the AR started to shoot, I shot too, but he teamkilled me because I didn't shoot the one he wanted.
He teamkilled me again for reviving people that he said I shouldn't have revived.

The same round (Jabal) in the same squad he teamkilled 2 times another guy (SM) for whatever reason.

In less than 20 minutes he teamkilled me 3 times and another guy 2 times.

This kind of behaviour kills the game. I consider myself as one of the best PR players in skill, I play since 0.8 and can do whatever job we told me to do, I can snipe an apc 600meters away with a freaking RPG. I'm good at caculting distances, in this squad Scotty wanted his friend to grab the marksman kit, but he wasn't really good with it. I hate when "Super1337" squadleader judges me because I'm not his friend.

He was cursing at all SMs for the whole round because we were noobs in his eyes, but when combats showed he was always the first down, making bad decisions and putting the blame on us, of course.

By the space, give me one Ak-47 and one RKG-3 and goodbye whatever squad I fall on. You want me alive in your squad, don't teamkill me because I'm not your friend or because I'm "just a SM" please.

So please guys, stay away from this guy, remember he lost his admins rights for the kind of stuff he did this day, but he's also the kind of guy who is "known" and "cool" with admins, you know, a bit like Wicca (not saying that Wicca's a ********* ), so he wasn't banned.

Anyway *NwA* is one of the best server out there, freaking good mumble usage and nice teamwork in overall, but there's always bad players and griefers on all servers.

[saXoni]

Pvt.LHeureux, you should probably take this to NwA's forum.

[Pvt.LHeureux]

I'm not really sure about it, talked to an admin in-game and said that he'll keep an eye on him, but like I said this guy is the kind of guy that is known in his community and "respected" even if he's a ******.

[saXoni]

Well, that's not how it's supposed to work. If he's a ******, an admin should do something about it. At least when he's a member of the clan!

[Mikemonster]

[Post explaining how bad an SL was, over a prolonged period of time, and how good the victim of the bad SL is at PR, including 600m RPG kills]

So why did you stay in his squad.. ?

As has been said, if you can do it better, do it yourself.

I have no idea if it's true what you said, but teamkilling your own squad is counter-productive even if it's a terrible squad. It just leads to even more mischeif on their behalf as they swim from the carrier/walk from main.

http://www.nwa-clan.com/ <--- We can discuss the specifics here mate.

[Spec]

As Mikemonster suggested, please keep the specifics about that NwA player (and the server) in their forums, and return to the general topic of this thread.

[Pvt.LHeureux]

So why did you stay in his squad.. ?

As has been said, if you can do it better, do it yourself.

I have no idea if it's true what you said, but teamkilling your own squad is counter-productive even if it's a terrible squad. It just leads to even more mischeif on their behalf as they swim from the carrier/walk from main.

*NwA* Clan <--- We can discuss the specifics here mate.

All the other squad were locked on this round unfortunately..most squads are clan squads on *NwA* (well that was like this yesterday).

I wanted to stay in the squad because I couldn't have created another one or joined another one anyway and the other SMs were ok.

Also, I can't make 600m kills with RPG without requesting a kit, so being in a squad

[LITOralis.nMd]

Has my reputation preceded me?

Smoke em if you got and lay into me and my megalomaniacal SquadLeadership skillz.