PR Tournament

[Arnoldio]

No, its not a thread about why it isnt happening or something... I was never in the tournament also. (Dont have the time and will to dedicate).

But, how would it work if there was a number of slots avaliable to apply, and then every person (except COs and maybe SLs, wich would be randomly divided, and then put into teams, so both teams get equal number...) would be randomly put into a team, those who are left out are reserves, same goes for additional people who apply. So teams are random, there is some structure, but other than that, its compeltely random.

I dont see much point if the teams are pre-set every year. It would be cool if there was audience watching the battle, but since this is no arena sport, its their own thing, and its pointless if its the same all the time.

If people would be randomized every campagin, there would be less stacking and more people would get to know eachother, bringing the comunity so much closer. Also it would be more fun to see how each team gets to know eachother more, and that would be shown through sucess in tha battles, becoming a family. So, more social approach to it, and i believe more fun, unlike now, where its just the best of the best, vs the a bit worse of the best.

[dtacs]

I'd rather play in a competitive environment with people I know, not randoms who either can't be trusted or have unknown skill and ability. In addition to that you are throwing off time-hardened relationships with cohesive squadmembers.

The issue with PRT wasn't the stacking, it was the administration and handling of conflict which got multiple people banned or simply disqualified without proper investigation. CATA's consistent victory was thanks to the amazing command team (tip my hat to you Onil & Bonsai) and flexible playerbase.

[Arnoldio]

I'd rather play in a competitive environment with people I know, not randoms who either can't be trusted or have unknown skill and ability. In addition to that you are throwing off time-hardened relationships with cohesive squadmembers.

The issue with PRT wasn't the stacking, it was the administration and handling of conflict which got multiple people banned or simply disqualified without proper investigation. CATA's consistent victory was thanks to the amazing command team (tip my hat to you Onil & Bonsai) and flexible playerbase.

Clan wars, multiclan wars. That is competitive, with people you know. In my mind, PRT should be something else, as as far as i've heard and seen, PRT is kinda multiclan war...

Also, people from the forums would apply, and pretty much everybody on the forum is atleast medium skilled or more, and you would buld new relationships. What is the point of always playing with the same people. Its like footbal on olympics would be played with only France and Brazil, every 4 years.

[Agemman]

TART, a community run tournament, is run like that mate. But instead of every campaign squads are scrambled for one or two battles. https://www.realitymod.com/forum/f376-p ... ament.html

(tip my hat to you Onil & Bonsai

Onil was never a CO

[Zrix]

But instead of every campaign squads are scrambled for one or two battles.

You mean teams, right?

[dtacs]

Clan wars, multiclan wars. That is competitive, with people you know. In my mind, PRT should be something else, as as far as i've heard and seen, PRT is kinda multiclan war...

Also, people from the forums would apply, and pretty much everybody on the forum is atleast medium skilled or more, and you would buld new relationships. What is the point of always playing with the same people. Its like footbal on olympics would be played with only France and Brazil, every 4 years.

Well you're playing the wrong game then, since a multi-clan war is exactly what PRT for pretty much its entirety.

You build familiarity between players through pub matches. Competitive PR is totally different from public play, there is more planning and more strategic movement with little flexibility meaning victory comes from exploiting the game and ridiculous amounts of practice.

Although in theory your idea is good for community development, its something that won't last in the long term as people want to play with specific people.

[Farks]

Do not underesstimate the effort it takes to get a team organized. At least if you want gameplay that goes beyond even the best public rounds, and if that's not what you're trying to achieve a tournament is just a waste of time.

Thing is, most people who are new to organized mutliplayer games (not just PR) have no idea about what it's really like. That's of course natural, but many have a hard time accepting reality once they see how it actully works. Everybody is expecting the same thing; "I will be part of a fantastic team with great teamwork, playing in an awesome squad togheter with skilled squad mates who all knows how to communicate properly. Everything is going to be super awesome because the only people who would join a tournament like this are like-minded people who thinks just like I do!"

Unfortunetly, that's just a fantasy. Even though its true that all of you most likely share the same general intererst, there will still be diversity both in ways of thinking and skill, which then results in arguments and egos clashing. I personally believe that this affects competetive gaming communities extra hard, since we're so used to games being a self-centred experience. We play games on our own conditions when we want to, even in multiplayer because we can just disconnect whenever we don't like the map that's being played, are stuck in a team that sucks, have a bad squad leader, etc. But as soon as you join a clan, tournament or any other type of organized multiplayer community - you can't do that anymore. Well, you could, but you wouldn't be a part of it for very long.

I know this may sound rather negative, but that's just the reality of it. It's really no different from a workplace or sports team as far as the psychological and sociological aspect goes. If you can't stand working with other people or being told what to do, don't join a tournament or clan. Because you will have to be self-less from time to time and do tasks you might consider boring for the sake of the rest of the team. In the case of PR, it might be defending a flag that nobody is attacking for a whole round, driving logistics trucks back and forth and spending several a hours a week training with your team at things you already consider yourself good at. But it serves a purpose, and that's what you have to understand. Teamwork isn't just a bunch of people crammed on a server, it's when you're doing something nobody can do on their own - and that's the real beauty of it.

It's not until you can accept all this that you can start having fun as a successful team. And when it works, all the potential pain will have been worth it. Trust me on that!


tl;dr
Playing in a tournament as a team takes effort and work from everyone! You can't just scrub a bunch of people togheter and expect miracles.

[Web_cole]

Its an interesting idea, but it doesn't feel like PRT to me (or what PRT should be). What I loved about PRT was that feeling of brotherhood in such a focused and strictly competitive environment. Its not even quite the same feeling as being in a clan tbh.

I think your idea could work, but as others have pointed out with a system like that where almost nothing stays the same I suspect organisation would become a chronic headache.

[Agemman]

You mean teams, right?

Squads are scrambled into teams is what I meant, so yeah

[Arnoldio]

I understand your points, but thats exactly what im talking about. Its mostly the same people, so what difference would it make, if we took you NATO & CATA and put you aside in some kind of tournamet so you can play it out for yourselves while something new is happening at PRT. It would be the exact same thing.

There is ways to improve my idea, as making the whole tour longer, so people get to know eachother more on public matches, or hanging out etc. that could be discussed.

PRT is the ultimate PR gaming yes, on its own. But in my eyes it should be a thing that every PR player wants to experience. It has more "role play" to it with all the CO decisions out of the game. I never had any urge to sign up for the PRT, it just isnt appealing to me in its current state. Example on real life; Many rally drivers say that SWRC is better than WRC, even if WRC is the pinnacle of rallying. Its the most competitive, most agressive rallying with thousands of dollars spent, in a sense like PRT, its the battle of the best, thing of its own, while still being rally, like PR. But for those drivers who dropped back to SWRC, even if being in WRC previously, what counts is the feeling of being amongst a wider range of people with more equal chances and the unpredictabilty of having a machine that is half the price of an extremely developed WRC car.

Yes, it is the PR "TOURNAMENT", wich means competitiveness on the max and beyond, but that means elite is always playing amongst themselves, still imo, its should be more of a PR Campagin, an extended, focused event, still the best experience, but with less separation from PR, as in brutally pulling every trick you can to make your team win.


Maybe its just me, never taking PR as a competitive game like UT, but rather as in a game of great experience, against some of you people, who see it as competitive game. Ofcourse everybody has their own opinions and interpretations. I want to see PRT as something that you want to experience, because of the experience, not because you see yourself as pro and want to play amongst pros. In the end, bringing quality gamepaly to the public servers, instead of bringing competitive gameplay, wich is not what PR is about.

[Web_cole]

I don't think that it needs to be one thing or the other, personally I play PR very competitively anyway and if I see a chance to win I'll go for the jugular and never look back, but I don't see why it can't be many different things to many different people. I think PRT was a lot like that with some other elements thrown in, but it was still just a way of playing the game, not necessarily the "pinnacle" of PR. (Although I might say different on another day )

Ideally if there was space for it a tournament like yours could exist in PR alongside the PRT, but I'm not sure both could run successfully at the same time, this being a small community at the end of the day.

Still maybe the PRT purely high level competitive play has had its day, looking at the issues with C10, and looking at what has come of that i.e. the TART, a tournament that is aiming to move away from some of the problems the PRT suffered from.

[Wicca]

TART just started. IMO there should be Clan competetive gaming in PR, ranging from 4v4 to 32 v 32 games.

Aswell as a PRT which aims to make "public" gamers pro tournament gamers. And throw them in amongs lots of other people they never have meet. Greet and game PR.

Then have fun.

Its like a public squad on a PR server, just the SL isnt actually shite, since he was selected for his abilities and you dont get a new SL. U just sitck with him.

I can say, i have had the best games of PR in PRT. Hands down, although its been close sometimes

PR can and is a competetive game, its about winning and losing. You cant get around that. It isnt the aim of the devs to create a online gangbang game, where all we do is hang out. Its to win. By killing the enemy.

So by that end, PRT aims at being the most competetive and high end gaming experience in PR you ever get.

That is why I think a more coordinated PR community, would greatly appreciate the PRT. And thats why the PRT is needed in PR.

// Wicca out

[Bonsai]

But, how would it work if there was a number of slots avaliable to apply, and then every person (except COs and maybe SLs, wich would be randomly divided, and then put into teams, so both teams get equal number...) would be randomly put into a team, those who are left out are reserves, same goes for additional people who apply. So teams are random, there is some structure, but other than that, its compeltely random.

I dont see much point if the teams are pre-set every year. It would be cool if there was audience watching the battle, but since this is no arena sport, its their own thing, and its pointless if its the same all the time.

If people would be randomized every campagin, there would be less stacking and more people would get to know eachother, bringing the comunity so much closer. Also it would be more fun to see how each team gets to know eachother more, and that would be shown through sucess in tha battles, becoming a family. So, more social approach to it, and i believe more fun, unlike now, where its just the best of the best, vs the a bit worse of the best.

That`s more or less what TART is doing. But not totally randomized. SLs are chosen by management. They can bring in players they know. But we encourage everyone to keep spots for "new guys" in their squads.

The team setup (which squads play with which CO) will be randomized every battle. All management work and team-sized planning is done by the COs. SLs can focus on their squads.

So - the competition takes place on the battlefield and not in the forums....

(...)
I know this may sound rather negative, but that's just the reality of it. It's really no different from a workplace or sports team as far as the psychological and sociological aspect goes. If you can't stand working with other people or being told what to do, don't join a tournament or clan. Because you will have to be self-less from time to time and do tasks you might consider boring for the sake of the rest of the team. In the case of PR, it might be defending a flag that nobody is attacking for a whole round, driving logistics trucks back and forth and spending several a hours a week training with your team at things you already consider yourself good at. But it serves a purpose, and that's what you have to understand. Teamwork isn't just a bunch of people crammed on a server, it's when you're doing something nobody can do on their own - and that's the real beauty of it.

It's not until you can accept all this that you can start having fun as a successful team. And when it works, all the potential pain will have been worth it. Trust me on that!

tl;dr
Playing in a tournament as a team takes effort and work from everyone! You can't just scrub a bunch of people togheter and expect miracles.

Point is people join tournaments for different reasons. Some are seeking the ultimate team-experience. Some just want to play together with their friends. Others are trying to make new friends. Some are just there to have fun...

As long as they are willing to follow orders and show up when needed and willing to do also boring jobs...they can fit into the same tournament.

[Wicca]

Check it out! Our first battle is the 5th of November i think at 1900 PRT

[Raic]

I always felt that PRT offered place for new players to join and gain new skills and game view, at least in CATA. While lot of people came in in groups or clans they showed lot of interest in teaching new mates all the tricks and get them inside their group. Quite a lot of players who went so squads with lot of members from some specific clans ended up joining said clans.

I wonder if this sort of transaction of skills and tricks will happen in TART as the fact that squads are, at the end of the day, each others 'rivals'. Also doubt there will be lot of advanced training held by anyone.

TART, a community run tournament, is run like that mate. But instead of every campaign squads are scrambled for one or two battles. https://www.realitymod.com/forum/f376-p ... ament.html



Onil was never a CO

Command staff included a lot more than CO, it has SiC and all the GSOs. Onil had one of the biggest role in keeping the level of skill in CATA at high average in C9 and the 'mini-campaign'.

[PFunk]

I always felt that PRT offered place for new players to join and gain new skills and game view, at least in CATA. While lot of people came in in groups or clans they showed lot of interest in teaching new mates all the tricks and get them inside their group. Quite a lot of players who went so squads with lot of members from some specific clans ended up joining said clans.

Thats how I always saw it. See a lot of people look at CATA and see lots of clans making up the player base, but obviously there were a lot of people who were just nobodies to each other who over the course of a campaign became internet 'brothers'. I mean you'd get up at weird hours to be there to play with each other. You'd never do that just for pubbing.

Also for NATO it was way more severe. There were really no clans that formed what made up NATO, not after C7. And in the C6/C7 days when DM dominated a lot of the NATO2 playerbase well... whereas most clans would bring their players with them to the PRT, DM was made up mostly of guys who randomly joined NATO2, who DM guys like and invited. It was like NATO first, DM clan player second.

From the NATO point of view you were always cycling in new people, and training them up, trying to teach them skills. No small part of the struggle against victory was in the fact that you had nublets who are often getting their first taste of organized play against a motivated winning CATA that sheds fewer players. But in some ways it made the dedicated players more united.

The OP has no frame of reference for what he's accusing the PRT of. There were always new people. I was a CO for 2 campaigns I still have posted on my corkboard over my computer the first printed off roster from my first month as a CO at the start of C8. Not only were almost none of those names there at the end of C9 but half of them left before C8 finished. I know that when we had issues with sign ups drying up in C9 that CATA was lacking enough people for a proper full roster too.

What defined the PRT was the competition, the stage, the fact that it was a team of strangers who came together to win week in and week out. It was the biggest commitment in PR. I remember breaking down the average battlecycle demands on a grunt in NATO if you counted the bare essentials of 2 trainings and 2 squad trainings. It was like 16 hours minimum or something per 2 weeks. Doesn't sound that big, but being on time for those trainings and being focused 100% of the time you're there. Lots of people can't hack it. I kicked plenty of people for being unhelpful or just absent.

TART is there to fill the void left with the death of the PRT, but it is just about the most opposite creature as the one its replacing. There was something special about being on those teams, just like WebCole said. It was just different than everything else.

I do miss it. And if it was still here, you could be a total scrub and show up and if you had the time and dedication to be there, you'd be one of the guys too. There was nothing wrong with the PRT at its heart. It was always welcoming to new guys whatever their skill.

To me, the PRT was PR. *runs away to cry*

[Arnoldio]

PFunk's post is completely valid, no issue there. I said i wasnt in the PRT, i was basing off of observation, so thanks PFunk.

Also, i said that grunts would be only scrambled on the signups. They would stay the same throughout the wole campaign, if somebody missed that part.

[Elektro]

Joined the PRT when campaign 8 started, at the time I didn't know a single person in the tournament. At the end of campaign 9 I knew just about most people from both teams. Mostly just by name, but those of whom I got to play with grew on me fast. Going on Teamspeak to see if the others were online became a routine.

The feelings and emotions that seem impossible to bring out in a PC game, were flying sky high during a close battle. I'm not saying that the PRT was perfect, but it sure as hell was and still is the best gaming experience I've ever had.

Being relatively new to the tournament, (Pfunk and other long time players talking about campaigns that took place before I even got my first copy of Battlefield 2 ) I can definetly say that being a newbie was great fun and that wasn't a problem in the PRT.

[Dunstwolke]

If you were willing to dedicate the time to the tournament and also willing to act mature enough, you would have been accepted, no matter your knowledge or skill-level.

If you define "Elite" as people being able to afford the time to part-take in the tournament, then yes, you are right. The time requirement was enormous and still is in TART.

--Sneaky

[PFunk]

If you define "Elite" as people being able to afford the time to part-take in the tournament, then yes, you are right. The time requirement was enormous and still is in TART.

--Sneaky

See this guy? Latter half of C9, best SL in NATO Charlie. 2 PARA was special. Most squads you talk about the SL and the NCOs and the few remarkable people in it and everyone else just kind of leaves and is filled in over time. 2 PARA was an individual all to itself. As reliable as the sun rising.

Thats what the PRT created. A group of strangers that became a tight effective unit. You guys rocked.

And for TART, yea I'm playing between 20 and 30 hours a week or so to get ready alone and with my squad. Thats par for the better players out there. I believe L4gi said the only way to get good at PR is to play 30 hours a week minimum. He always was crazy though.

Being relatively new to the tournament, (Pfunk and other long time players talking about campaigns that took place before I even got my first copy of Battlefield 2 ) I can definetly say that being a newbie was great fun and that wasn't a problem in the PRT.

Get a time machine, go find NATO2 half way through C7 and you'll find a very green, very noobish PFunk running around there. I was a grunt. "I wanna help the team out more". C8 they make me a CO. Lol.

As for the best gaming experience... PRT is the high water mark that is hard to top. My first battle, EJOD Desert. Epic stand at Gas Station as US. HATs being fired at us from the hills, tank rounds impacting nearby every few seconds, constant stream of fire, 32 NATO guys on one flag side by side, in the depressions of the sand like trenches. If only we'd had mumble back then. We lost, by 1 ticket. That was the day that all other gaming was ruined for me.

I don't think TART will give newbie PR players the same shell shocked introduction to coordinated play, but I remember how I felt after that battle. I hope to help others feel the same way if I can.