Mysteries of handheld AA

[Stoickk]

The best way that I have found to use AA is in pairs. Have both AA kits in a nearby (but not the same) location lock and fire simultaneously at the same target. It is important for the two to be separated enough to have the missiles coming from two different directions. This gives you more of a chance to down the target, gives the pilot much less chance to evade, and in the case of certain air vehicles (*cough* flying tanks *cough*) helps to do enough damage to bring the vehicle down without it just shrugging off the hit and returning to main for repairs. For less experienced pilots, having two incoming missiles can also cause panic, which more than once has caused a crash.

[ma21212]

When does the heat seeker actually activate? after you hear the lock tone or during the locking tone? in other words if you fire a missile when you have a target in your rectile, but its not locked yet, does the missile seek a heat signature or is it just a dumb rocket?

[Rhino]

Tried reading post #11?

[Rudd]

just to clarify your post Rhino (cuz I haz no AA skillz) if fire your missiles at a helicopter that is dropping flares, but don't complete a lock since the flares got in the way, will you have more or less chance of actually hitting the helicopter than if you locked one of the flares and then fired, but the missile missed the flare, heading towards the general direction of the helicopter?

The pilot would be unlucky to get hit in either case, but which is more likely to result in damage to the helicopter? (since often you won't be able to lock the helicopter itself due to time in visual range, you want to have a go anyway)

[Mikemonster]

You need a lock for the missile to be in 'Seek' mode. If you fire it without a lock it will never guide.

Once it has a lock and you fire, it will head towards the nearest heat source regardless of what you got the lock on. If it misses this heat source it will continue to the next one.

Is my understanding of Rhino's post.

[Rudd]

ok, so complete teh lock on whatever you possibly can for a chance to hit, no lock means the missile will just do nada, msg received

[Rhino]

You need a lock for the missile to be in 'Seek' mode. If you fire it without a lock it will never guide.

Once it has a lock and you fire, it will head towards the nearest heat source regardless of what you got the lock on. If it misses this heat source it will continue to the next one.

Is my understanding of Rhino's post.

That's correct.

In the case of your situation Rudd, if you fired before you got a lock because he dropped flares, your firing a dumb, unguided missile with massive deviation. If you locked onto a flare, then fired, the missile might not actually lock onto the flare you locked onto, if there is a closer heat source to you (like another flare) that's in its locking FOV, but if it went for a flare, missed the flare (which is bound to happen since missiles can't blow up on them) then it has a chance of finding the chopper, or another aircraft after missing that flare providing the target is in line with its trajectory so it can find it in its locking FOV.

[ma21212]

I did.... my question is if you fire the missile when your in the ''locking mode'' (but not yet locked), does the heat seeker activate?

this how I understand it and plz correct me if Im wrong, you have 3 modes with AA, when you shoot in each mode:

no lock > its a dumb rocket
locking > its still a dumb rocket
locked > heat seeker will follow a target

[Rhino]

That's correct.

[illidur]

so at what point does the pilot hear a tone?

im guessing: locked> heat seeker will follow target.

or will the pilot start hearing it from hud locking?

[badmojo420]

I believe the pilot hears the tone shortly after you get him locked on your HUD. I think that's why people sometimes get blown up with no warning. You can scare people away just by locking onto them without firing.

[MaSSive]

Pilot hears the tone in tracing mode - locking > still not locked / dumb rocket I believe, and yeah that thing is annoying. Most of all I hate those 1 sec beep / boom rockets. I guess those are lucky shots.

[Rhino]

so at what point does the pilot hear a tone?

im guessing: locked> heat seeker will follow target.

or will the pilot start hearing it from hud locking?

Right the locking tone system in PR works slightly differently from vBF2 but I will explain both.

In vBF2, you hear a locking tone when someone is trying to lock onto you via there HUD. Once they have locked you via there HUD, you then get a locked tone. You can also get a locked tone if an active missile starts tracking your vehicles heat signature, so even after someone has locked onto you via there HUD, fired there weapon and then stopped locking you on there HUD, you will still have the lock tone provided by the missile tracking you. If the missile was locked onto one target, missed it, then started tracking you then once the missile starts tracking you, you will hear the locked tone at the point it starts tracking you. This is the reason for why some of you might get hardly any warning before the missile hits, not only because you don't get the initial HUD locking tone, but also because the missile is much closer to you and at full speed.

In PR it works pretty much the same, with the only differences being you do not get a locking tone and there is a very slight delay before getting the locked tone as well.

[MaSSive]

Rhino;1704640']
In PR it works pretty much the same, with the only differences being you do not get a locking tone and there is a very slight delay before getting the locked tone as well.

Oh that explains it. But why have you altered this since its not quite realistic. Is it? Radar system in aircraft's should give you a warning if you are being targeted right? Once missile is airborne and you're locked your odds are pretty much low

[Rhino]

no this bit explains why you only have the "1sec boom" moments:

If the missile was locked onto one target, missed it, then started tracking you then once the missile starts tracking you, you will hear the locked tone at the point it starts tracking you. This is the reason for why some of you might get hardly any warning before the missile hits, not only because you don't get the initial HUD locking tone, but also because the missile is much closer to you and at full speed.

The delay for the locked tone is around a second and its there to give the shooter a chance to fire before the pilot dumps flares, stopping any possibility of being able to fire the missile in active mode since the flares would cut out the HUD from locking as it started tracking a new target (the closest flare)

Instead with flares you have to drop them after the missile is in the air to try and divert the missile away from you.

[MaSSive]

Ye wrong part quoted. Still you gave to SAMs quite a big odds imho. How this impacts dogfight? Its pretty much the same pattern right? Have you tried it with old vanilla system from both aspects ( pilot and SAM operator ). Does this proves to be better and for whom or have you just found balance in this.

[Rhino]

Air to Air missiles is the same as Surface to Air missiles.

Its also not hard for the pilots to evade getting a lock due to how many flares they get and how fast they can deploy etc. Its very easy not to get locked on in the first place if you just deploy flares to stop the locking process. The trick is as a pilot to know where the AA threats are which you will need to rely on your team for a bit as well and if you know where they are, you can pretty easily avoid them.

As for the vBF2 system, its what we had in PR before but it was such a problem we had to make this change as aircraft could so easily avoid getting a lock, let alone hit

[MaSSive]

Right, but its quite a bit odd this thing with flares. Sometimes they completely fail even though if you spam almost all you got missile simply ignores it. Is it all the time that your aircraft is in the flight trajectory of missile or closer to it, so it just ignores flares or are flares somewhat bugged and need some work on them? It should be enough to deploy 2-4 flares to avoid SAM locking on you in most cases but as I said this is often not the case. Thanks for replying.

[Rhino]

As explained in post #11, the missile tracks the nearest target in its locking FOV. If your aircraft is it, that's your problem as the pilot

You need to position yourself so you get your flares between you and the target and then turn in such a way that when the missile misses the flare, your not in its locking FOV for it to come after you.

It takes quite a lot of skill, and luck but even if you have no idea where the missile is coming from, there are manoeuvres you can take while dropping flares that will significantly increase your chances of survival, different ones for both air to air missiles and surface to air missiles which if you master, you will find yourself hardly ever being shot out of the sky.

[Psyko]

Rhino;1704640']Right the locking tone system in PR works slightly differently from vBF2 but I will explain both.

In vBF2, you hear a locking tone when someone is trying to lock onto you via there HUD. Once they have locked you via there HUD, you then get a locked tone. You can also get a locked tone if an active missile starts tracking your vehicles heat signature, so even after someone has locked onto you via there HUD, fired there weapon and then stopped locking you on there HUD, you will still have the lock tone provided by the missile tracking you. If the missile was locked onto one target, missed it, then started tracking you then once the missile starts tracking you, you will hear the locked tone at the point it starts tracking you. This is the reason for why some of you might get hardly any warning before the missile hits, not only because you don't get the initial HUD locking tone, but also because the missile is much closer to you and at full speed.

In PR it works pretty much the same, with the only differences being you do not get a locking tone and there is a very slight delay before getting the locked tone as well.

Maybe you guys should slow down the missile speed to be slower than the aircraft's normal speed (not max speed) so the missile only hits when the aircraft is doing a stupid manouver and not flying properly.