Why was Spec-Ops removed?

[Neox1986]

Hello.

Iv read alot about this subject in this post:
https://www.realitymod.com/forum/f10-pr ... s-kit.html

And there are alot of usefull comments on the subject of using and/or fixing the Spec-Ops kit.

I myself am a pretty new player in PR (been playing for a month) and i love the aspect of small squads going on a silent mission. Me and a friend (who is very experienced in PR) went in a 2 man squad and did some "do not fire unless fired upon" missions. It was great!

I was fun, intense and very rewarding when we first managed to do our task.
Spec-Ops can be a very huge team asset if played right. As some ppl said in the thread i linked. Blowing bridges, using the soflam, helping snipers, spotting for commander are just a few examples.

I read (in the post above) that this kit was changed due to the amout of "noobs" using it.
And i totaly get that. Every new player sees that cool "Spec-Op's" text and goes bananas.

I myself never got to see this kit in action, but from what i could see in the post linked above. I got this info (please correct me if im wrong):

M4 with Red dot sight
Pistol with silencer
Grapling hook
SOFLAM
Kit had to be requested?

This seams like a good kit! The only thing i would like to change is the silenced pistol.
I would rather want it to be a silenced submachinegun instead.
There are 2 reasons for this.

1:The M4 has a great range on it, and can pick off targets from a long range. Making it "unbalanced" for long ranged engagements with a silencer.

2: Submachineguns have a fast rate of fire. Making the Spec-op better in close range fights rather then long ranged.

I dont see any reason for this kit NOT being in PR at this moment.
Its a fun, usefull and balanced kit. It gives the player a more focus on stealth (i know you can still sneak with another kit) and it gives the game another good kit.

Im not sure if ppl did this on the servers when the kit was active, but cant the Spec-Ops kit be an asset? Like apc and mortars for example, you name your squad and you get the kit/asset. When it comes to the subjects of "noobs got the kit and went lonewolf". I think this is a bad excuse for not having the kit ingame. Issuing multiple warnings to the player "stealing" it should get the job done, if not. Kick him.

I would love to make 3D models for this kit. Im experienced with 3d modelling and i love PR. So if noone wants to take the job of making a submachinegun, i will.

[Pvt.LHeureux]

The main reason is that a Spec-Ops kit doesn't belong in the factions used.

[Neox1986]

So none of these have a Spec-ops division?

The United States Army
The United States Marine Corps
The British Armed Forces
The Russian Army
The Israel Defense Forces
The Bundeswehr (German Army)
The Canadian Forces
The Middle Eastern Coalition
The People's Liberation Army

And none of these?

Conventional forces to be included in later patches are:

The Polish Armed Forces
The Dutch Armed Forces
The French Armed Forces
The Brazilian Armed Forces
The Norwegian Armed Forces
The New Zealand Armed Forces

[Acecombatzer0]

Hey, welcome to the forums! (and Project Reality )

The "Spec Ops" kit was removed over 5 versions ago (going back 3 years) because Project Reality wants to focus on Conventional warfare involving combined arms, which usually doesn't involve the use of Special Forces. (and other reasons)

Also, tbh replacing a pistol with an automatic would bring even more "noobs" to want this kit. It's not going to work out. Its something server mods cannot even work out.

You post also looks like a suggestion, which requires 25 posts on these forums. (and must be posted in the suggestion page which must be approved by mods)

[Spush]

Special Forces aren't always tagged along with larger military forces in an Area of Operations. Elite kits are pointless and takes away from the whole Teamwork gameplay that we want to implement. Like Acecombatzer said, we also wanted to have a conventional combat.

There's ways to have fun with a two/three man Recon Squads. Have a Officer Kit to spot things, a HAT kit, and an Engineer kit to blow stuff up with C4.

[Neox1986]

Thanks for the welcome!

And sorry if it sounded suggestive! I dident know of the 25 post rule.

I think PR is a great game, and i really like it so far. Pr does the "conventional warfare" part very well.
I just think that they should "expand" into the stealth aspect a bit aswell.

If you think of the "noobs" getting the kit issue. Its easy to avoid in my oppinion.
When i first logged on to a PR server i dident know anything about the game.
But a i tried out a few things a got on track. "Noobs" always do stuff they are not suppose to, but removing a kit because its popular is wierd imo.

As i see the spe-op class. Is as a: behind enemy lines, spotting and destroying designated targets with few engagements. Almost as a close range sniper specializing at killing in CQB not longe range.

The reason i mentioned the submachine gun instead of a rifle was to "nerf" the range of the silenced automatic weapon.

[Acecombatzer0]

There are many things that people want in this mod, yet they do not get it because it is either overpowered, unrealistic for conventional warfare, feared to be too popular, is not possible in the engine, or is prone to extreme limitations. Such as the Javelin AT missile, the M82 .50 cal, fast ropes from helicopters, bringing back the AH-6 "Littlebird", AC-130s, and more.

And how can there be a "stealth" aspect in the game when the enemy knows that there are entire regiments of tanks and helicopters beyond the horizon line? Its not like your Solid Snake and the enemy doesn't expect your coming. And once a player dies, he can just voip his squad where he just got knifed in the back. Just doesn't make sense for this type of scenario.

[Neox1986]

Im not talking about dissapearing infront og someone. Im talking about actually hiding and being sneaky.
I know that it has to fill out alot of requirments to be in PR, and thats a good thing.

Even if the enemy knows your attacking, he dosent know where. I understand you viewpoints and i agree on some of them.

Ppl using communication and saying they got shot is something to be expected. But even if they call out "i got shot!!" over voip. Its still a calculated risk taken by the spec-ops user. The whole point (as i see it when it comes to CQB) is getting close and using that as an advantage.

Some of the point with a kit like this is to not get into situations you cant handle. Making calculated riskes thats beneficial to you and your team.

[dtacs]

Oh lord, db and Ancient are going to have a field day with this one.

[Stoickk]

There are many ways to be stealthy in PR. The sound of your primary weapon is only one aspect. As has been pointed out above, the primary focus here is on conventional forces. Currently, suppressors are only in regular use in special operations units, although the U.S. Army and USMC are fielding commercially available suppressors as an interim step to adopting a new rifle/carbine and suppression system. (source) While a suppressed weapon would be fun, it really does not fit with the overall feel and concept of PR in its current state. Who knows, maybe in the future, PR will expand enough to incorporate special operations warfare. Until then, enjoy those "return fire only unless danger close" missions. I know I do.

[Neox1986]

Well thanks for the fast replys guys! It nice seeing an active forum.
As i stated earlier, im new and i absorb as much "intel" as i can about PR.

I actually wouldt mind having db making a comment. Was his vids that got me playing PR in the first place. Seeing his controll and teamplay made me want to try PR.

Well its back to going Officer, Combat engi tactics

[ShockUnitBlack]

They made the right choice removing the kit. The game's better with conventional forces.

[Doc.Pock]

if you want to make the stuff or get someone to help you you could make PSOF addon to PR like PN did. but i think it'd need aproval by the devs

[ComradeHX]

OP seemed to think only 1337 special phorc3s can move stealthily while everyone else spray and pray all the way to enemy base.

That is a horrible impression of PR...

Special Forces does not always equal to sneaking around...and conventional forces can do stealthy recon behind enemy lines too.

[Vista]

I agree with Comrade, you dont need a silencer to be stealthy; Hide in a bush, use your binoculars, and dont fire unsles you are getting fired upon, spot with the radio and if you want to attack while being stealthy, do ambushes; The enemy doesnt know were you are, but when they figure it out, they are getting shot at from 6 diferent directions.

[Neox1986]

Mates.

I run a Officer / Combat engi all the time. I know you can still be sneaky and not have a silencer.
Thats not the points.

[Arnoldio]

No need for spec ops kit. Use kits provided in the right situation, and you will be just fine.

[Ca6e]

U have Rifelman specialist, with hook, and Knife for silent kills! In my opinion is enought, for sneaking behind enemy lines! And in the RL in a lot of situations SF operator is attach to to other regular forces, to get intel, recon, and other staff

[Tarranauha200]

PR is about ordinary conventional warfare. Its about grunts.
PR is NOT about sneaking around with silenced mp5 and knifing people.

[samogon100500]

Bring back rally points first time.PR was good a few versions later,how public servers id dead - gameplay is good only for events,not for public .This tread was discussed a lot of time and I think it's would be closed.
Spec ops = rifleman specialist(With M4,exept for China) + C4 and M2 + SOFLAM.No sense to put such kit this time,nothing special there.