Militia needs scopes

[manligheten]

Quite simple. Some patches ago militia had scopes for rifleman and officer. Now they don't. It's really unfair in AAS since scopes are such advantage now that they are so much faster than before. When you play 64+ players and there is really some game going on, most often militia get there asses handed to them concerning k/d regardless of what they do.

It's not "asymmetric gameplay", militia cant use it to their advantage, it's just unfair.


The subject for the thread is, should militia get scope for rifleman, officer and lmg?

[Stealthgato]

I'd want it only for officer and a limited kit, say Rifleman AP alt. Would be a nice compromise imo.

[40mmrain]

theres a reason the militia AAS maps always give the militia more flags to start with, along with terrain advantages.

For example dragon fly, the militia begin with three flags, and the british only one. This means the can be very defensive, giving them a large advantage. Also, the flags are within the city so proper bridge mining and demolition denies the enemy fobs and armour support. If the british lose one flag they bleed tickets, if the militia lose its only 30 tickets. Not to mention the militia also have scopes on marksman and sniper. Knowing this, if the weapons (scopes too) are even for both sides, then the map is imbalanced. if the brits outgun the militia at range then it is more reasonable for them to have to be so offensive in the map.

However, i do like the idea of officer kits having scopes, makes the kit seem more prestigious, like a superior rank should.

[manligheten]

theres a reason the militia AAS maps always give the militia more flags to start with,

Not on Fools road or Iron ridge.

along with terrain advantages.

Any terrain but dense jungle is a disadvantage to militia.

For example dragon fly, the militia begin with three flags, and the british only one. This means the can be very defensive, giving them a large advantage. Also, the flags are within the city so proper bridge mining and demolition denies the enemy fobs and armour support. If the british lose one flag they bleed tickets, if the militia lose its only 30 tickets.

On the other hand it's very difficult for them to take train or to take back lost flags.

Not to mention the militia also have scopes on marksman and sniper.

Yes but so does the opposite team.

Knowing this, if the weapons (scopes too) are even for both sides, then the map is imbalanced. if the brits outgun the militia at range then it is more reasonable for them to have to be so offensive in the map.

Would be better to balance with tickets and assets and make the game fair. It not fun to get your but kicked as militia and it's not fun to get too easy kills as opfor either in my opinion. For example on Fools Road 64 layers the UK got armor and better kits. Milita got BRDM-TOWs. It just unfair and unfun.

However, i do like the idea of officer kits having scopes, makes the kit seem more prestigious, like a superior rank should.

In real shooting scopes aren't as much better as in PR so we shouldn't make any IRL comparison. A cheap optic sight isn't that prestigious either. We also have to remember that milita's medickit has a bad weapon also.

[MaSSive]

Militia is a faction similar to talibans or insurgents. Its a paramilitary formation and I don't see those guys wearing AK's with scopes. Its not really possible to have not-so-well funded group with advanced weapons and assets. Even a tank is too much for militia. Even some armies today don't have scoped weapons for every soldier.
Gameplay wise it would be fine if maybe officers and maybe some of special kits would have it.

AK with scope? Rocks

[manligheten]

Militia is a faction similar to talibans or insurgents. Its a paramilitary formation and I don't see those guys wearing AK's with scopes. Its not really possible to have not-so-well funded group with advanced weapons and assets. Even a tank is too much for militia. Even some armies today don't have scoped weapons for every soldier.
Gameplay wise it would be fine if maybe officers and maybe some of special kits would have it.

AK with scope? Rocks

IRL you don't have 1200x800 pixel eyes that doesn't render small objects properly on distance. It's not comparable to "realism". It's a game play issue. Militia should get more tickets or hideouts instead of FOBs or something else that makes them suck less. Scopes are the easiest fix.

[Stoickk]

On a side note to the "medic has a bad weapon" issue, try the alt medic kit; AKSU-74 works like a charm.

As for the Militia needs scopes issue, meh, I don't know. On the one hand, I see no purpose in featuring the unconventional factions in AAS maps. It is just counter-intuitive. These factions are not built for conventional warfare, so forcing them into conventional battles with conventional forces will result in a poor outcome in most cases. That being said, the Militia do quite well on maps like Siege at Ochamchira. In my opinion, unconventional factions should stay on the Insurgency maps and leave AAS to the conventional forces.

On the other hand, since they are being placed on AAS maps, the game play is very unbalanced. This is a major reason that these maps are not seen in play on most servers. The public doesn't like them for the most part, because most players don't like getting the **** kicked out of them for a couple of hours due to poor equipment balance. Be aware that the above sentence is a generalization and may not apply to each and every player that reads it. That being said, I guarantee that somebody is going to go off half cocked and argue with that statement. At any rate, I think a balance adjustment is needed, or a faction change on some, if not most, of the AAS maps featuring the Militia.

The Militia is a great faction, however they are one of the least played due to the AAS equipment balance issue. You don't see threads asking for Insurgents/Taliban/Hamas to get scopes, do you?

[badmojo420]

most players don't like getting the **** kicked out of them for a couple of hours due to poor equipment balance.

It's more like some players don't like to abandon their conventional tactics when playing AAS as an unconventional faction.

I hate this train of thought that you're supposed to go toe to toe with the enemy, and when it doesn't work out, blame the sub-par weapons and keep repeating the cycle for hours until your team loses. There are plenty of ways to create a better fight, but simply giving the weaker faction better weapons is just going to turn militia in the Russian Forces, so why bother even having a militia faction at that point?

Was that half cocked enough for ya ??

[ComradeHX]

Even people in america can get ROMANIAN TIP2 scopes for well less than $100(usually $50-80).

I do not see how Militia cannot get any.

This has nothing to do with whether the battle is a conventional one or not... it is the maps...those maps do not give Militia any sort of advantage to have a use for "unconventional" tactics except when people camp inside bunkers.

Militia would do well against conventional forces only on maps that offer asymmetrical vehicle balance(militia with tank and opfor without) or maps with most points in building complexes for CQB where scopes are slightly(yup...same sight-in time and 3d scope made scopes almost overpowered) less effective.

[manligheten]

It's more like some players don't like to abandon their conventional tactics when playing AAS as an unconventional faction.

There are no tactics that work better with militia than with armies. You are always at disadvantage as the enemy can engage you over longer distances, and you can't shoot back. No "unconventional tactics" fixes that.

There are plenty of ways to create a better fight, but simply giving the weaker faction better weapons is just going to turn militia in the Russian Forces, so why bother even having a militia faction at that point?

Why even bother having two types of Americans? It's neat, that's why. Militia will still be militia even though they don't suck. They had scopes in the past. No one complained.

On a side note to the "medic has a bad weapon" issue, try the alt medic kit; AKSU-74 works like a charm.

Ok, nice. But you can't spawn with it.

On the other hand, since they are being placed on AAS maps, the game play is very unbalanced. This is a major reason that these maps are not seen in play on most servers. The public doesn't like them for the most part, because most players don't like getting the **** kicked out of them for a couple of hours due to poor equipment balance. Be aware that the above sentence is a generalization and may not apply to each and every player that reads it. That being said, I guarantee that somebody is going to go off half cocked and argue with that statement. At any rate, I think a balance adjustment is needed, or a faction change on some, if not most, of the AAS maps featuring the Militia.

It really comes down to the scopes. That's the balancing issue. On Fools Road 64 layer it's also ridiculously unbalanced armor. That map seems to never get the armor layer right.

The Militia is a great faction, however they are one of the least played due to the AAS equipment balance issue. You don't see threads asking for Insurgents/Taliban/Hamas to get scopes, do you?

Well that's not AAS. And on Asad Khal Hamas usually get pwnd due to lack of scopes if the teams are evenly balanced. In AAS scopes are extremely important.

[Gotrol]

Another whiny thread detected.

Damn, even Couter-Strike had asymmetry between the weapons. Most of milita maps have buildings, why not stick to them? It's a much more CQB oriented faction. Solve your problems with appropriate tactics.

Besides, I don't see people complaining about Taliban not having scopes.

[Stoickk]

Gotrol, how many flags can you cap by staying inside a building?

How many AAS maps feature Taliban?

How do you propose to fight an enemy from 2-300 meters away in a sparse woodland environment by staying in a building without optics?

How do you propose to use unconventional tactics to combat thermal sight equipped armor threats by staying inside buildings on Fool's Road and Iron Ridge, and actually capture flags, which is the point of AAS maps?

While unconventional tactics work well in ambush type warfare, and hit and run scenarios, those tactics do not translate well to offensive attacks. AAS requires that each faction take the offensive in order to win. Unconventional tactics are focused on defensive tactics, hitting the enemy when they are unprepared or not expecting contact, and falling back before they can bring superior firepower to bear. These tactics, when employed properly, work very well in Insurgency layer. They do not, however, translate to offensive warfare within Project Reality. The equipment gap is far too great, between the majority of the enemy infantry being equipped with optics and enemy armor and even some light vehicles having thermal capabilities, as well as UAV support.

This thread was not "whiny" as you put it. It was an attempt to address a current imbalance within the gameplay. Personally, I would rather just leave the Militia faction as is, and rather than trying to change the faction around to make them fit an AAS model (pushing a square peg into a round hole, as it were) just keep them on Insurgency maps where they belong. Leave the AAS to conventional factions.

[karambaitos]

Besides, I don't see people complaining about Taliban not having scopes.

russia doesnt have cobra sights, this is unacceptable, i demand reprimand for all the deaths i have been caused that have nothing to do with me, or my stupid decisions, its all the devs fault

honestly you guys complain about militia yet they usually win

except fools road std, thats almost impossible with the amount of heavy armor the british have, but its realistic

Gotrol, how many flags can you cap by staying inside a building?

a better question is how many flags can you defend from inside a building?
answer all the flags that are needed to win the game

and another thing militia arent suppose to go offensive (though they are really good at attacking on fools road not STD), thats why they have cannons on maps, if the flag isnt in a forest or inside a town its not even worth attempting.

[MaSSive]

It's more like some players don't like to abandon their conventional tactics when playing AAS as an unconventional faction.

Oh that so hits the spot very well said

[simeon5541]

When you play 64+ players and there is really some game going on, most often militia get there asses handed to them concerning k/d regardless of what they do.

Like in real life.
There is many armies that even today are not using optics,
and I think that Militia's marksmen and snipers are lucky to have optics.

[manligheten]

Like in real life.
There is many armies that even today are not using optics,
and I think that Militia's marksmen and snipers are lucky to have optics.

"In real life" you don't attack with 1:1 soldier ratio. "In real life" hitting standing targets with iron sight isn't hard over 100m. "In real life" people don't play militia AAS maps because they are unbalanced.

I favour realism, but the game has to fun to play even though you aren't a masochist. Deterministic losing when the teams are balanced isn't very fun in my opinion. It's like playing insurgent on Karbala. Deterministic armor rapage.

Another whiny thread detected.

Discussing game balancing issues isn't whining. Whining about threads that does however is.

Most of milita maps have buildings, why not stick to them? It's a much more CQB oriented faction. Solve your problems with appropriate tactics.

There are no tactics that will adjust for the fact that scoped weapons wins firefights more easily. You can't use worse weapons to your advantage, whatever tactics you use It's quite simple.

Besides, I don't see people complaining about Taliban not having scopes.

That's because k :d -ratio doesn't matter in insurgency.

[Navo]

Who takes scopes on woodland maps anyway? If you do it right the maximum firefight range will be about 50 meters.

[Gotrol]

Dragon fly- flags in urban compounds and dense Forrest plus uneven landscape.

Fools road, flags in compounds and dense Forrest plus uneven landscape.

Kozelsk, flags in compounds and dense Forrest.

Iron ridge, flags in urban compounds and dense Forrest.

If any of these scenarios are not sufficient for the use of your CQB weapon- then you should stop playing infantry altogether and create a CAS squad.

edit-corrected misspelled fags into flags.... was funny.

[manligheten]

This thread was not "whiny" as you put it. It was an attempt to address a current imbalance within the gameplay. Personally, I would rather just leave the Militia faction as is, and rather than trying to change the faction around to make them fit an AAS model (pushing a square peg into a round hole, as it were) just keep them on Insurgency maps where they belong. Leave the AAS to conventional factions.

Militia with it's Warsaw-pact weaponry has a nice touch to it and it would be a shame to take them away from AAS maps. When they had scopes there wasn't these balancing issues. But I liked them more when they were tjetjenias and fought russians. It made more sense.

[manligheten]

Who takes scopes on woodland maps anyway? If you do it right the maximum firefight range will be about 50 meters.

No it wont. There are not enough undergrowth to hide in. And the scope equipped enemy will try to engage you on distance. Going on offence is thus very hard.

Dragon fly- fags in urban compounds and dense Forrest plus uneven landscape.

Fools road, flags in compounds and dense Forrest plus uneven landscape.

Kozelsk, flags in compounds and dense Forrest.

Iron ridge, flags in urban compounds and dense Forrest.

If any of these scenarios are not sufficient for the use of your CQB weapon- then you should stop playing infantry altogether and create a CAS squad.

Well the problem isn't that the militia doesn't have CQB-weapons. The problem is that they only have CQB-weapons for ordinary soldiers.