PR-Deviation is Backwards

[Mikemonster]

One example would be when firing over a small hill across an open field. Like in Al Basrah village/fields area west of the city.

But doing this you can get just as many benefits (and more accuracy) by moving forward 1m, crouching and having your head at the same level?!

[badmojo420]

But doing this you can get just as many benefits (and more accuracy) by moving forward 1m, crouching and having your head at the same level?!

I disagree, staying back from the hill lets you stay outside the splash area if a tank or APC started hitting the hill with HEAT rounds. It's the same with standing back inside a building away from the window sill. In real life the sniper would probably find a table to rest his rifle on, but in PR we just stand there in an empty room.

[Xander[nl]]

In what situation do you ever fire standing up in PR?

The issue is null and void in my opinion because the only time you actually do it is when there's a wall in front of you ..

It's still less accurate than firing whilst crouched - the issue is already fixed.

Are you sure? I thought a dev once mentioned all stances have the same accuracy - to simulate the ability of mounting/laying the gun on something. Because it can't be portrayed properly (like in BF3), they introduced this.

[Arnoldio]

Xander, that goes for DEPLOYED weapons only. Otherwise stance affects deviation.

[Stoickk]

Sniper rifles are considered deployed at all times. Give me a bit and I will find the source and link it here. Watch this post for an edit.

[Mikemonster]

I disagree, staying back from the hill lets you stay outside the splash area if a tank or APC started hitting the hill with HEAT rounds. It's the same with standing back inside a building away from the window sill. In real life the sniper would probably find a table to rest his rifle on, but in PR we just stand there in an empty room.

Hmm, the splash is like a grenade though, go prone and you're out of the way anyway.

Aside from that, this is the only example I can think of anyway, and agreed it is unrealistic in that scenario but I'd rather have a guy in game standing further down the hill firing over at me than crouched and firing with realistic accuracy.

I tend to find that firing out of the centre of a room is more or less the same, can't see anyone wasting accuracy for the advantage of being another metre back. You can just sidestep near the window so that you're only exposed to view from the area you're aiming at.

Still, agreed if you're using it as in your examples it is unrealistic to have a rock steady aim.

[Dev1200]

With the whole argument about the standing/hill shit, standing up behind a hill allows you to simply go crouch to be out of the line of fire. Then, you can poke back up without losing accuracy.

Whereas if you were crouching, you would have to move backwards, reducing deviation slightly (depending on how long you are moving for), or just going prone, totally dun' goofing your accuracy altogether.

[Wakain]

the OP's interesting, but isn't it so that while perhaps your muscles might weaken after a prolonged active stance, decreasing the hold you have over your weapon, your focus often only increases with prolonged tension.

so you might be able to point your rifle the good way at first, it still takes a good deal of focus before you can say you're really accurate

[Buren06]

The PR deviation system is a necessary evil. IMO - you can either have a realistic aiming system that results in unrealistic firefights, or an unrealistic aiming system that results in realistic (and fun) firefights. I would rather have the latter.

CQB will always be almost entirely dependent on skill. Reflexes and instinct still determine the winner. It took me years to develop a "feel" for whether I should fire from the hip or try to scope in first - there's a fine line between the two. Reflexes are self-explanatory.

[ComradeHX]

Chill out Rambo...

Go pick up a bull barreled Remington 700, with a scope and mount that weigh a few pounds on there own, and 5 rounds of .308 cartridges a tell me how long you can hold the cross hairs on a egg at 100 yards from the offhand position.

Come back on here and tell us how you did.

I do not see this **** in PR.

In case you have not noticed, PR is not full of christmas tree weaponry.

[Tartantyco]

I thought this was Project Reality?

And the aim of the mod is to create a realistic battlefield experience, not an infantry simulator.

[Ambush]

Anything that evens the playing feild and results in a less run-and-gun atmoshpere is a positive for PR. The deviation is fine. The fact is that it really would take you that long to Accurately fire. Ever shoot skeet? Way harder to fire quickly and hit your intended target then it is to "READY- AIM- FIRE"!

Besides, the way that cover fire works you have to make a decision at the time of the battle- Do I start fireing quickly so as to pin my target down and MAYBE get the hit/kill- Do I retreat/re-engage so as not to be killed- or do I crouch , wait, settle, and fire!

Hey dev's - don't change it- job well done.

[Hunt3r]

I do not see this **** in PR.

In case you have not noticed, PR is not full of christmas tree weaponry.

An M16A4 with a TA11 definitely gets heavy. 8-9 pounds is not to be trifled with when loaded.

[ComradeHX]

An M16A4 with a TA11 definitely gets heavy. 8-9 pounds is not to be trifled with when loaded.

I am pretty sure M16 in PR have gripods; pretend it is in deployed mode. XD

How are you going to balance the game when there are rifles that are NOT M16?

Because I have shot the realsteel Type 56(similar in weight to the AK74) with the bayonet on and 30 round mags; it was not heavy enough that my aim goes bad after 8 seconds. M16 should not be that heavy either(not sure about the addition of useless rail system and rail covers, though).

It would be more realistic if the M16 in PR looked like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=An-nMlDeApI
Warning: will look like airsoft or generic amerikan redneck build.

Only time I really had actual aiming problem when standing up was when I played with an airsoft RPK-74 with a Russian NSPU nightvision scope(that thing is massive); but that falls into the squad support weapon role and should be in "deployed" mode with bipods out.

BF2 engine does not support this kind of system(although it would be a nice kick in he rear to camper-strike players), so I would not bother with thinking about it.

[Riflewizard]

it'd be impossible to effectively implement the OP's idea, though i see where he is coming from..
What if i'm ambushing?
What if i'm covering a space for a extended period of time?

There's too many variables for this to be implemented fairly or well.

[AquaticPenguin]

There's too many variables for this to be implemented fairly or well.

Agreed, I'm also not sure it would add a great deal to gameplay in the first place. Unless it was simulated properly I could only imagine it becoming a source of frustration.

Also I don't think the current system is backwards as such, my only gripe is that the max and unscoped deviation seems a bit high to begin which can make suppression difficult. I think it's quite realistic to assume that someone's not going to be pinpoint accurate with a heavy rifle instantly, and it's effect on gameplay is that you have to be more tactical rather than trying to out shoot the opponent.

[SGT.Ice]

I don't think the point is to create a system that is absolutely accurate to real world standards. Rather it's there to create a firefight that plays out in a more realistic manner.

You just contradicted yourself.

However, even at full auto you should be effectively able to hit someone 15-20 feet away. And I should be able to engage targets about 50M away after walking without having to wait about 4 seconds. The soldiers we are meant to be playing as are not sixty years old.

Moreover my gun should not have any problems hitting anything up to 300 feet or more not matter what map size if i've stayed still for 4 seconds. More times than not your gun has a hard time hitting people at 100 feet.

[dtacs]

However, even at full auto you should be effectively able to hit someone 15-20 feet away. And I should be able to engage targets about 50M away after walking without having to wait about 4 seconds. The soldiers we are meant to be playing as are not sixty years old.

Moreover my gun should not have any problems hitting anything up to 300 feet or more not matter what map size if i've stayed still for 4 seconds. More times than not your gun has a hard time hitting people at 100 feet.

How would you do it differently?

[Navo]

I think it works well now.

[Stealthgato]

Decrease maximum deviation.