Militia needs scopes

[niho]

Dragon fly- fags in urban compounds and dense Forrest plus uneven landscape.

Fools road, flags in compounds and dense Forrest plus uneven landscape.

Kozelsk, flags in compounds and dense Forrest.

Iron ridge, flags in urban compounds and dense Forrest.

If any of these scenarios are not sufficient for the use of your CQB weapon- then you should stop playing infantry altogether and create a CAS squad.

You're right!
There might be some situations where Scopes give an advantage, but in most of this woody or urban areas you don't rlly need them or they can even give you a disadvantage (limited field of view).

Regarding the heavy BlUEFOR armor: I often see this as an advantage for the Militia, since APC's and Tanks are mostly just "ticket gifts" for the Militia due to their high destruction rate and bad K/D ratio in many games.
They are to inefficient and vulnerable in woodlands, what forces them to operate on the main roads where they are an easy target and often to far away from the action where they are needed.
Not to mention the BRDM with ATGM, which is serious Tank- and APC killer!

[MaSSive]

Militia with it's Warsaw-pact weaponry has a nice touch to it and it would be a shame to take them away from AAS maps. When they had scopes there wasn't these balancing issues. But I liked them more when they were tjetjenias and fought russians. It made more sense.

If you look it that way ( "Warsaw pact weaponry" ) then I might say your argument of adding more assets - not just scopes - is fine with me. If Militia is Warsaw pact faction then we can add more than just T55s and BRDMs. Those countries had a quite respectable armed forces and were not insurgents or some fictional faction. True, they do not exist anymore.

Not a reason to go off topic - sorry

[40mmrain]

Not on Fools road or Iron ridge.

They actually DO start with more flags on iron ridge.

Any terrain but dense jungle is a disadvantage to militia.

Fools road and iron ridge both have lots of very dense forest, and close quarter buildings. Perfect for irons

On the other hand it's very difficult for them to take train or to take back lost flags.

Yes, youre right, it really should never be easy to take back a flag.

Yes but so does the opposite team.

so? Merely outlining the fact that militia are equipped with the tools to use infantry rifles at as long a range as the enemy team

Would be better to balance with tickets and assets and make the game fair. It not fun to get your but kicked as militia and it's not fun to get too easy kills as opfor either in my opinion. For example on Fools Road 64 layers the UK got armor and better kits. Milita got BRDM-TOWs. It just unfair and unfun.

Jesus christ not this shit again.jpg. The armour is balanced for the reasons youre blatantly ignoring. The militia have such a terrain advantage its not even funny. The british have to get tanks and apcs through narrow roads, and over many bridges on dragon fly and fools road. This makes them REASONABLE TO COUNTER. This is fact. You cant refute that. Put some freaking ieds or AT pointed at these roads or bridges. In fact you dont even need special kits! just use the prebuilt cannons that insta kill anything and point to all major chokepointes on these maps. You know the enemy is going down them. this isnt hard. The other map, iron ridge is not imbalanced either. The russians get 2 30mm btr which dont get thermals, die to spandrel, spg, mines, ied, hat, and lats really easily, and suffer the same fate the british do. They have to go up very specific hills and bridges leaving them wide open to ambushes.

Seriously, im tired of people complaining about how they think the militia/insurgent factions are so inferior for not having less assets. They have the terrain. They have the advantage of defense in most cases.

[Gotrol]

Well the problem isn't that the militia doesn't have CQB-weapons. The problem is that they only have CQB-weapons for ordinary soldiers.

My point is that they don't need anything else.

[manligheten]

They actually DO start with more flags on iron ridge.

No. Look again.

Yes, youre right, it really should never be easy to take back a flag.

The problem is that it's easier for militias opponents to take a flag than for militia. A so called balancing issue.

so? Merely outlining the fact that militia are equipped with the tools to use infantry rifles at as long a range as the enemy team

There are only five of them and they are not spawnable. They also are bad at close range. Scoped AKs are not.

Seriously, im tired of people complaining about how they think the militia/insurgent factions are so inferior for not having less assets. They have the terrain. They have the advantage of defense in most cases.

"Have the terrain"? They have the terrain in the same sense the opposing force "have the terrain". The difference is that militia has to hide and can quite easily be cornered in in their terrain.

Defence is to no advantage if you can't shoot back either.

My point is that they don't need anything else.

What? You do know that scopes are a great advantage any range over like 50m? Still, you can't use worse weapons to your advantage.

[badmojo420]

There are no tactics that work better with militia than with armies.

Well no shit, it's not that militia is a superior faction while using some tactics, it's that if you don't want to get your asses handed to you, you gotta improvise some unconventional tactics.

You are always at disadvantage as the enemy can engage you over longer distances, and you can't shoot back. No "unconventional tactics" fixes that.

LOL Here's a tactic for that, don't expose yourself to long range fire. Let the enemy get closer so their scopes are a disadvantage.

Why even bother having two types of Americans? It's neat, that's why. Militia will still be militia even though they don't suck. They had scopes in the past. No one complained.

Okay, but nobody is suggesting we give the USMC the Apache because the Cobra just isn't as good. Militia doesn't have scopes because reality dictates it.

[manligheten]

Well no shit, it's not that militia is a superior faction while using some tactics, it's that if you don't want to get your asses handed to you, you gotta improvise some unconventional tactics.

"Unconventional tactics" in AAS? No can do.

LOL Here's a tactic for that, don't expose yourself to long range fire. Let the enemy get closer so their scopes are a disadvantage.

Doesn't work when you attack.
Doesn't work when the enemy know where you are.
Doesn't work when the enemy has scoped lmgs covering their advance.

Okay, but nobody is suggesting we give the USMC the Apache because the Cobra just isn't as good.

Isn't game breaking. Militia maps on the other hand is seldom played.

Militia doesn't have scopes because reality dictates it.

Reality has nothing to do with it. In reality you got real guns and can actually hit stuff with iron sight at distance since you aren't held back by eye resolution and rendering distance.

Lets say a soldier is 5 pixels wide. In PR when you move the mouse 1 mm to the left the sight moves maybe 5 pixels to the left. If you zoom in the resolution gets higher and it's easier to adjust the sight because the enemy soldier is like 20 pixels wide not 5. That's not a "realistic" effect. You don't shoot better with scope you see better.

It's a game and the ironsights aren't realistic. It's a balancing issue. If the weapons in PR was so good IRL as in game all soldiers would carry around a SVD or a SAW.

[Mikemonster]

Only thing about the Militia maps i've got annoyed at is that they needa Logi to make a FOB. That disadvantages them in my book as you can see and hear it coming, and obviously kill it if you tell an APC.

They should be like wookies.. Comming outta nowhere [man]..

[badmojo420]

"Unconventional tactics" in AAS? No can do.

Well there's your problem. No faith in a rag tag militia. Switch to the other team, you'll be happier.

[ComradeHX]

Well there's your problem. No faith in a rag tag militia. Switch to the other team, you'll be happier.

How much faith can you have in a faction that usually only differs from the other team only in that it lacks the ability to spawn with anything that has magnifying optics?

Then you put that faction into AAS maps in which BOTH sides have ticket counts.

...not Insurgency.

[chris_stoiva_ganjais]

I dont disagree with Manligheten. There is NONE scopes at all in militia side, at least there could be some.

But i would rather put it the other way, why dont limit scopes on regular army sides.

Its not normal nor any way realistic to see a 6 man squad with 5 scopes. Normally there is 2, 3 or 4 scopes in a platoon (12 soldiers), officer, a couple of riflemens and the AR. All the rest stick to theire old conventional iron sight (or red dot).

The question is how many would complain about such a limitation.

In normal enviroment with threes and buildings most squads would be better off with iron scopes. The 4x seems to make coverfire less efficient, where people want to make every shot count when the real point about laying a wall of fire is to supress. Situational awareness is much better without 4x scope, it could be a nice adminissue to teach people the need for for instance good covering fire, a good flanking manouvre (anyone love to flank a building with scope?) and not to forget the most forgotten battletactic - the withdrawal. Again, 5 soldiers trying to headshot with theire fancy squads on withdrawal will not gain momentum, they will easily be outflanked and overrun due to theire fancy of a scope.

Just my thought after reading this thread.

[DieVoorJe91]

@chris_stoiva_ganjais: If I look to my own experience; In my platoon everyone used to have a 3x elcan sight. And since we have new primary weapons everyone including IFV personnel has a aimpoint with a 3x magnifier. And so its not that unrealistic that every one in a squad has a magnified optic. But it divers from army's.

[Gotrol]

Its not normal nor any way realistic to see a 6 man squad with 5 scopes. Normally there is 2, 3 or 4 scopes in a platoon (12 soldiers), officer, a couple of riflemens and the AR. All the rest stick to theire old conventional iron sight (or red dot).

The "all-optics" squad is extremely limited in their flexibility to change the battlefield.

There is always an option to take an iron-sight kit- and thats how it should be. Leave people the options, and the ability to do what they want. In the past squads I've been this week it was a 50/50 spread between irons and optics, and I think that's how it generally is.

Except maybe on Kashan.

[Walmarx]

It's more like some players don't like to abandon their conventional tactics when playing AAS as an unconventional faction.

This^

I almost always opt for Iron sights/Aimpoints in my kit selection, although I recognize that I am in the minority in that regard. With a Scope, you are very effective at medium range, static combat. However this over-specializes your role, and as such you can easily be caught off-guard by a contact at close range, especially considering the rubber-banding that occurs when scoping in. When you decide on close-range optics, you can almost always engage on your terms; if the enemy is close, you can easily acquire and sight him. If he is too far, you can choose to flank and close the gap. I find personally that single headshots seem much easier with iron sights, but that is merely my opinion.

With regards to the Milita- they have some of the most reliable rifles in the mod. All the Kalashnikov variants are very effective in both semi and fully automatic fire. The SKS, which has been called 'poor' here, is absurdly capable at medium-long range; I could swear its settle time is at least 30 percent faster than its automatic successor.

[Dev1200]

Optics are shit anyway. AK47 is best gun in game, so win.

Also, do you think some derp militia would be able to afford optics on their guns, which cost a bit less then the weapon itself?

[jerkzilla]

Meh, I think the potential difference in skill can more than make up for the lack of scopes, except maybe on Ochamchira. Still I can't say I agree with the school of thought that you can just make one side inferior, say "deal with it" and call it balanced. I can't really cough up any statistics but it feels like every time the conventional faction has their shit together, the Militia will lose even though they may get as much teamwork going as the other guys.

It seems that when the players get better, the scale tips towards the British/Russians, otherwise the assets act like ticket sinks and scopes get used when they shouldn't be and things even out.

[ComradeHX]

Also, do you think some derp militia would be able to afford optics on their guns, which cost a bit less then the weapon itself?

They can afford everything from AK74 to M60s.

Last time I checked, a REAL AK-74 is not exactly cheap.

[Apocalypse89]

I recall reading somewhere that Militia are supposed to be weapons smugglers? In which case it would make sense for them to possess at least a few scopes. Considering that they also wear uniforms, use old tanks, and operate primitive UAVs, I've always gotten the impression that they're meant to be a step above the rest of the unconventional forces, hardly a 'derp' faction.

That said, I just played a round as them on Fools Road where we came out victorious, so while they may be at a disadvantage it's not insurmountable.

[mangeface]

MaSSive;1706495']Militia is a faction similar to talibans or insurgents. Its a paramilitary formation and I don't see those guys wearing AK's with scopes. Its not really possible to have not-so-well funded group with advanced weapons and assets. Even a tank is too much for militia. Even some armies today don't have scoped weapons for every soldier.
Gameplay wise it would be fine if maybe officers and maybe some of special kits would have it.

AK with scope? Rocks

That used to be the background on my computer. Damn, that thing is sexy. But, I'd rather have a Kobra. I'm trying to buy one for my AK-74M, also known as an Arsenal SGL31.

[Navo]

If they can get their hands on a 9P148 Konkurs I am pretty sure they can get their hands on some scopes. I think an AK74 with a scope would be fitting for the squadleader, replacing the AK74u.