[2D Texture] More realistic mini-maps?

[splatters]

The maps (overview / minimap, not the level) are one of my biggest pet peeves in PR, because of their gamey and unrealistic look. They don't look much like real photographs and could use some color correction to make them look cooler
Also, having the maps less saturated with bright colours would bring up the icons more.

This is suggestion-ish but more of an overall question: Do you guys think that the current maps look good or should they be tweaked a little to represent real photographs?

Below is an example of what I'm talking about; in-game map, edited version of that and a real satellite image of Muttrah. Let me know what you think, if people like it, it wouldn't be a big task to do it on every map.

[AFsoccer]

So you mean more realistic mini-maps?

Can you post higher resolution versions of your examples? I'd be interested to see what the color tweaking does to the quality when zoomed in. After all, the most important function of these mini-maps is for navigation.

[splatters]

AFsoccer;1709222']So you mean more realistic mini-maps?

Can you post higher resolution versions of your examples? I'd be interested to see what the color tweaking does to the quality when zoomed in. After all, the most important function of these mini-maps is for navigation.

Yeah, sorry meant mini-maps of course. Feel free to change the thread title

The color toning has a marginal effect on the quality and resolution of the map, if any. All it does is change the color values a little bit, very lossles editing.

Hi-res versions of muttrah:

http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/6527/muttraht.jpg

Dat looks pretty awesome I might say

http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/3449/muttrahv.jpg

Are there 'clean' mini-maps in the PR files without the grid? Could use those...

[Zrix]

I like it. Since we can't(easily) have maps that look like maps, they might as well look more like a real satellite image.

[splatters]

I like it. Since we can't have maps that look like maps, they might as well look more like a real satellite image.

My thoughts exactly

[Rhino]

Hi-res versions of muttrah:

http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/6527/muttraht.jpg

Dat looks pretty awesome I might say

Not IMO, the washed out colour looks really awful. I know what your saying but thous filters are terrible.

If we wanted to go down the more realistic mini-map approach then Topographical maps are the best way, but IMO, too much work to make them really worth while and don't give the player enough detail, although this is a pretty good one of Qwai: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v307/kevptim/qwai.png

Best thing about them is you can see how the terrain actually is, where as some maps its hard to tell where the slopes really are.

[splatters]

Yes yes the topographical maps are one thing, but IIRC that idea was shot down long ago. We can't have that, but as Zrix said we should at least try to make the satellite images look more realistic. I think it's fair to say that the current ones do NOT look realistic

There are no 'filters' per se, and the colors aren't washed out that much, just different. If that kind of color theme doesn't please the eye, anyone can edit their own (and better?) versions of it. Black & white maybe? And to my eye they look a hundred times more realistic and better than those straight from the level editor.

[Rhino]

just look at the containers on your minimap and you can't even tell what colour they are meant to be

[Tim270]

Not IMO, the washed out colour looks really awful. I know what your saying but thous filters are terrible.

On the flipside, the 'toned' mini-maps with a contrasting grid color overlay could look pretty good and make it way easier to see the grids, that is the only 'benefit' I can see from this.

[splatters]

Tim, you're right. The grids and icons on the map would be easier to distinguish that's the only functional benefit, but the main benefits would be aesthetics and realism.

And Rhino, I did that edit in one minute. There is plenty of room for improvement, this is more of a general concept. I noticed the container colors too and that could be easily fixed.

btw, here's the current minimap of my WIP map There are some (very small) inaccuracies, but so are there in real maps too! It looks very good, especially in the vehicle mini-map

[sylent/shooter]

ugh so confusing lol. I dunno I'm torn on this one. To be honest with you I would love to have just topo maps for every minimap lol. Just look at the EoD mod. IIRC they had some topo maps for their ingame minimaps as well. But I do like Splatters idea as well.

P.S Splatters. Please tell me that the coffee stain will not be in the final minimap of you map. It'll drive me nuts xD.

[ShockUnitBlack]

I like it. Since we can't have maps that look like maps, they might as well look more like a real satellite image.

I forget why that is...

[splatters]

ugh so confusing lol. I dunno I'm torn on this one. To be honest with you I would love to have just topo maps for every minimap lol. Just look at the EoD mod. IIRC they had some topo maps for their ingame minimaps as well. But I do like Splatters idea as well.

P.S Splatters. Please tell me that the coffee stain will not be in the final minimap of you map. It'll drive me nuts xD.

BTW, I don't feel that every mini-map has to be the same: some could be satellite images, some topographical maps etc.
Why should we limit it to one certain type of mini-map? Does the map really have to be 100% crystal clear and accurate in every corner? I think the variation would bring a lot of depth and feeling to the maps

And Rhino, I must disagree with you: I don't think that the colors look awful, just more realistic. Same way as I don't think the scratches and worn out paint on the vehicle models look awful, but some look more realistic than others!

[Zrix]

I forget why that is...

I should have put it differently in my original post. It's technically possible, like shown in this thread, but it's an insane amount of work. You'd need to find someone willing to draw them for something like 30-40 maps(plus additional layers), and also for consistencies sake be willing to keep making them for future maps for years to come.
Unless someone could make a script that automagically created a proper topological map from the editor, I don't see it happening.
Splatter's suggestion though is far quicker to apply and can be done by anyone with a semi-advanced image editor in a few minutes once an optimal setting has been decided upon.

[spiked_rye]

Couldn't you do it in 3ds max, like the reverse of this tut:

https://www.realitymod.com/forum/f189-m ... f2hmt.html

to generate the contours, deselect everything from the render in the editor except water / roads / ojects to get overhead screen caps for the various other layers of the map?

(Spot the guy who knows almost nothing about computers )

[Rhino]

And Rhino, I did that edit in one minute. There is plenty of room for improvement, this is more of a general concept. I noticed the container colors too and that could be easily fixed.

Do one where you think its good enough for use and then we can consider it but the one you have right now is far worse than the standard ones, also note how long it takes.

And having a standard for every map is a must, we can't have one map with one and another map using a totally different type of mini-map, you would just confuse the players to hell and make PR look and feel less polished.

Also don't even try and compare 3D vehicle/weapon textures to 2D HUD textures (which minimaps come into), they are totally different.

Couldn't you do it in 3ds max, like the reverse of this tut:

https://www.realitymod.com/forum/f189-m ... f2hmt.html

to generate the contours, deselect everything from the render in the editor except water / roads / ojects to get overhead screen caps for the various other layers of the map?

(Spot the guy who knows almost nothing about computers )

Contours are the easy part, you can do them via the height map. The hard bit is manually painting the roads, buildings etc onto the maps, although there are quicker ways of doing them if you know what your doing than manually drawing them and requires a lot of tweaking but still, not a simple task.

[Zrix]

Where do you find those 2048px maps? I can only find the lower res ingame maps in the files.

[splatters]

[quote=""'[R-DEV"]Rhino;1709425']Do one where you think its good enough for use and then we can consider it but the one you have right now is far worse than the standard ones, also note how long it takes.

And having a standard for every map is a must, we can't have one map with one and another map using a totally different type of mini-map, you would just confuse the players to hell and make PR look and feel less polished.


Also don't even try and compare 3D vehicle/weapon textures to 2D HUD textures (which minimaps come into), they are totally different.[/quote]

These are all opinions and I don't share yours in this case

What comes to different types of mini-maps confusing players, one would have to be really simple to be confused by different looking maps. The mini-maps straight from the editor are far from being 'polished' and I don't see a problem with having variation in them. Not everything has to be the same and standardized as long as it works and adds value to the game.

Look at it this way: if the mini-map weren't a part of the hud but a 'weapon' (like shovel or radio) and someone had to model and texture it, I don't think anyone would use the image that editor gives out as the texture: it doesn't look real, instead they would at least try to make it look like a real aerial photograph or create an authentic looking map for the textures, just like anyone would try to texture a tank as realistic as possible, not just shiny brand new from the factory. (This is an analogy, not a direct comparison, of course vehicle and weapon textures are totally different from mini-maps!)

The map happens to be a part of the HUD, but so what? It still uses a bitmap for textures and that gives us a lot of room to play, why not make it look good and realistic?

I'll do some examples maybe later, now off to work.

edit:

[quote="Zrix""]Where do you find those 2048px maps? I can only find the lower res ingame maps in the files.[/quote]

Found them off the map threads in the forums / google. That is the only way to get original mini-maps (= without the grid) unless we get them directly from the source I would love to see how you would edit them for comparison, maybe start with muttrah?

Here's Muttrah 4096, it has some ugly jpeg artifacts so I resized to 2048 which is still larger than needed.

[Rhino]

These are all opinions and I don't share yours in this case

The thing you need to understand is our opinion is the one that matters and you need to convince us (the devs) that your idea is worth taking forward. I've given you the optionality to prove yourself, now take it and don't tell me that I have a different option to you over and over when I'm open to new ideas, otherwise I wouldn't even bother replying to you.

And you can try to lecture me on game mechanics once you've had a large part in crating a very successful mod/game that has won multiple awards. Until then, don't even try as your just going to embarrass yourself and make your case for this new kind of mini-map even less appealing than you already have.

[splatters]

The thing you need to understand is our opinion is the one that matters and you need to convince us (the devs) that your idea is worth taking forward. I've given you the optionality to prove yourself, now take it and don't tell me that I have a different option to you over and over when I'm open to new ideas, otherwise I wouldn't even bother replying to you.

And you can try to lecture me on game mechanics once you've had a large part in crating a very successful mod/game that has won multiple awards. Until then, don't even try as your just going to embarrass yourself and make your case for this new kind of mini-map even less appealing than you already have.

I listed a load of things and arguments for my idea in the post above, you completely ignored and left them unanswered and instead took this conversation personally and played the DEV-card, taking the thread way out of context. I don't think I am the one embarrasing myself now.

What I'm trying to achieve with this thread is improving the quality of the mod to my l and other peoples liking, and finding out whether people support this idea. Would be nice to hear other people's takes on this, AFSoccer and Zrix started off with a constructive attitude, you should learn from them Rhino