Review of Rifle/DMR/Sniper Damage

[Dev1200]

AK and G3 recoil are laughable, it's so easy to just pull down on your mouse, and recoil solved. An increased per-shot deviation (especially with AR's, which have 0) and a decrease of movement deviation, and fixing the issue with 7.62 doing shit damage will be perfect.

[40mmrain]

AK and G3 recoil are laughable, it's so easy to just pull down on your mouse, and recoil solved. An increased per-shot deviation (especially with AR's, which have 0) and a decrease of movement deviation, and fixing the issue with 7.62 doing shit damage will be perfect.

well yes full auto with .308 isnt that unrealistic.

HK 51 full auto (50 round .308 drum) - YouTube

[CAS_117]

AK and G3 recoil are laughable, it's so easy to just pull down on your mouse, and recoil solved. .

What would you call the M-4's recoil considering the G3 has 2x more?

[Jonathan_Archer_nx01]

The AK-47 and G3 do not fire the same bullet and shouldn't do the same damage.

It's about how fast they lose that damage. The 7.62x51mm round will carry more damage over distance. Have you considered that?

[Murphy]

There are a lot of factors to consider when talking about the real damage one of these rounds can do to the human body, but it's all just semantics when we take BF2's engine into account. I'd be willing to bet my bottom dollar the dev's want realistic ballistics with true trajectory and damage that is reflective of the real situation, but they have already pushed BF2 extremely far as it is. I picture this games engine as the musculature on a race horse, fine tuned and pushed as close to the breaking point as possible. Will we see any significant changes to the way weapons handle and the effects they have on players? I hope so, but I wouldn't hold my breath for anything more then small tweaks as there is always a more pressing development to work on.

[CAS_117]

It's about how fast they lose that damage. The 7.62x51mm round will carry more damage over distance. Have you considered that?

(See disclaimer 2)

[Brainlaag]

I'd love to try one round with no deviation a la FH2.

You'd rage quit before the round even ended.

[Tarranauha200]

Why not give every rifle their real specs and really make infantry unbalanced. In muttarah you could give USMC much more assets as they have lots of them IRL but at the same time their guns would suck against MEC inf.

In real wars factions arent balanced. For example faction A could have better navy, but faction B would have superior infantry.
Its called Asymmetrical balance.

[dtacs]

Its called gameplay comes first. Asset imbalance would make the game totallyl unfun for one team, which is just stupid.

Nobody can ever say that the game should be as close as it can to real warfare, otherwise it'd just be a total obliteration for one side the entire game.

[CAS_117]

Its called gameplay comes first. Asset imbalance would make the game totallyl unfun for one team, which is just stupid.

Nobody can ever say that the game should be as close as it can to real warfare, otherwise it'd just be a total obliteration for one side the entire game.

Infantry weapons are realistic but they're selectively realistic. The G3/M-14s etc have a realistic number of rounds, realistic recoil, but unrealistic damage.

If it were going to be your version of "balanced" then the G-3 etc should have 30 rounds instead of 20.

[ComradeHX]

However all the rifles currently have identical deviation values right now. Additional turn deviation on the G3 could be appropriate. I would prefer this be considered (if anyone remembers 0.7 where rifles had different deviation) over arbitrary damage.

I am pretty sure it was official that AK47 has less base accuracy(more base deviation) than other rifles.

[CAS_117]

I am pretty sure it was official that AK47 has less base accuracy(more base deviation) than other rifles.

All rifles have identical deviation.

*Edit: Even if they didn't, the AK is used at close range anyways.

[Nitneuc]

I'm pretty sure, he's right, I can't remember in which version it happened but AK47 and AKS74u got their max accuracy lowered by 30% compared to other assault rifles.

[CAS_117]

I don't really see how this affects the bullet damage. The two are completely unrelated in PR. The M-16, G3, Undeployed DMRs, QBZ, AK-74 (RUS), L85A2, G36 etc all have the same deviation even though they fire 4 different kinds of ammunition.

If rifles were balanced by deviation against their bullet damage then there would be variation between all these rifle deviation and bullets as well. But there isn't. The bullets just generally do the damage they're supposed to. This logic however is not applied to rifles firing the 7.62x51 and 7.62x54 respectively.

The different deviation on the AK-47 is most likely because they're representing old weapons with worn out rifling.

[saXoni]

Why not give every rifle their real specs and really make infantry unbalanced. In muttarah you could give USMC much more assets as they have lots of them IRL but at the same time their guns would suck against MEC inf.

In real wars factions arent balanced. For example faction A could have better navy, but faction B would have superior infantry.
Its called Asymmetrical balance.

Gameplay > Reality

[CAS_117]

The two aren't mutually exclusive. MEC doesn't have choppers on Jabal or Muttrah and those are still balanced right?

[Rudd]

Nice to see you CAS, hope you're well

imo PR needs to decrease max deviation a bit, then modify deviation on a per weapon category basis. Going like "7.62 = +5% per fire deviation" "7.62 = +5% bullet damage" "long rifle = +5% turn deviation" "long rifle = -5% minimum deviation) etc etc etc, taking all the various variables and plugging them in; then if balancing is required it can be done via weapon loadouts and vehicle layouts.

But it would be a right ****** to do all the PR weapons like this imo, unless there is a clever way of plugging this all into a spreadsheet and it automatically going into the .tweaks or something.

[CAS_117]

Hey Rudd! Been awhile eh?

I can tell that it would be a monsterous amount of work to enter all that. Would be something to get excel doing that. I miss sniper; that was his specialty. Of course mosquill probably has done all this already and just hasn't bothered posting it on youtube yet.

[Tarranauha200]

Its called gameplay comes first. Asset imbalance would make the game totallyl unfun for one team, which is just stupid.

I suppose you have tried this many times on quality server that uses mumble, right?
Asymmetrical balance is propably the only way to make this game truly realistic while still keeping teams balanced.

[Walmarx]

Nice to see you CAS, hope you're well

imo PR needs to decrease max deviation a bit, then modify deviation on a per weapon category basis. Going like "7.62 = +5% per fire deviation" "7.62 = +5% bullet damage" "long rifle = +5% turn deviation" "long rifle = -5% minimum deviation) etc etc etc, taking all the various variables and plugging them in; then if balancing is required it can be done via weapon loadouts and vehicle layouts.

But it would be a right ****** to do all the PR weapons like this imo, unless there is a clever way of plugging this all into a spreadsheet and it automatically going into the .tweaks or something.

I would TOTALLY do this, rifle by rifle, file by file, if it would be used. My 7.62x54r needs some love.