Hardcore Clan Letter to the BF2:PR Community

[Calhoun]

The TG kicking is different.

It isn't. Maybe only when you ignore a certain part of the Supporting Members, who are Supporting Members for special privileges on the Tactical Gamer server alone, is it different.

On Tactical Gamer, you're allowed to play whether you're a Supporting Member or not. The only way you can play as long as you wish, however, is by paying Tactical Gamer, otherwise you will be inevitably removed for a Supporting Member.

Profiting privately from BF2 is illegal and against EA EULA

From what I can see, =]H[= doesn't engage in making profits off their server by practice or policy. It was a single admin acting of his own will, who I assume was punished in some way or will be. Tactical Gamer, on the other hand, actively engages in making a profit off their server, though I doubt they do so on purpose.

To be fair, the Supporting Membership doesn't exist to make a profit. Providing Supporting Members special privileges on your server, however, is wrong, because some people who desire those special privileges will become a Supporting Member simply to obtain those privileges. In this way, Tactical Gamer is making a profit off their server from people who would have withheld their money if there were no special privileges offered on their server to Supporting Members.

Pay money = receive server privileges

When people pay money (become a Supporting Member) simply to receive these, how isn't Tactical Gamer making a profit off their Project Reality: Battlefield 2 server?

[chrisweb89]

Because supporting members no matter why they bought the benefits, recieve benefits like joining when you want on all TG servers, and web space, and other benefits unrelated to BF2. Those fees are used to support the community and pay for servers, not for a profit. Supporting members are also treated identical by admins.

[Jeepo]

Admin hat off........

Sigh....... The TG Supporting member kick is 100% voluntary. As in you don't have to pay it. The money is used to keep that server, TS and all the associated things running. There is a whole host of benefits including yes a reserved slot on all the games we host that support it. That includes PR, BF3, BC2 and others. YES you will occasionally get kicked if you are not a SM and the system is simple. It automatically kicks the non-SM who has been playing the longest. That is the fairest way, so everyone gets game time. As for TG "profiting" that is simple not the case. Over on the TG forums there is transparency as to what the money is used for, people have asked in the past and always got the answer. It is not some crazy money grab conspiracy. Servers, backups, and all the other things that goes into a large website with many games cost money. I see it like this. TG plays the game the way I want to play it, and I never want to see TG disappear, so I give them a few $ to keep them running. That's it. If it disappeared tomorrow I would never play PR again and I don't want that to happen as I happen to love this mod. So I pay a few $$$ to keep the website and servers running, the fact that I get a reserved spot is merely a bonus to me, it would not matter if I didn't get the spot I would still give the $8 a month. For the hours I play all the games and use the forums, it works out as a huge investment in time. It is a VERY different thing to have people volunteer money as opposed to demanding money in return for a released ban. That is bribery.

Regards my feelings on the ]H[ server............I refuse to play there after their conduct in a scrim where a lot of their members were failing MD5 checks on our server which was readied with 10 minutes notice because their own broke before the scrim. They got well beaten and instead of taking it graciously they decided TG must have cheated. I guess if you are used to stacking pubbies you don't lose much until you came up against a well organised force. Just my own opinion of course, I do not speak for TG or the MODs.

Finally I find the people claiming the old mumble was too difficult to use effectively laughable, as it was fine and the new mumble is outstanding. I recently joined a random server and was really disheartened to find only me and another TG player who joined with me on mumble, getting no orders from the SL, and instead we used mumble to coordinate. Again just my opinions.

Admin hat on.

It irks me to see other servers dragged into this. This is about the dodgy conduct of the ]H[ server and admins so lets keep this on track guys.

[ShockUnitBlack]

It isn't. Maybe only when you ignore a certain part of the Supporting Members, who are Supporting Members for special privileges on the Tactical Gamer server alone, is it different.

That is blatantly untrue.

The only way you can play as long as you wish, however, is by paying Tactical Gamer

It's perfectly fine to rejoin the game, just like everyone else does - contrary to what you're saying, there is no time limit on how long you can play on the TG server.

[notmyingamename]

Jeepo;1717971']

Admin hat on.

It irks me to see other servers dragged into this. This is about the dodgy conduct of the ]H[ server and admins so lets keep this on track guys.

well, it's perfectly natural to contrast servers, considering that there's very few real life examples to draw from... just saying, you don't know how to describe red if you've never seen blue

[Jeepo]

well, it's perfectly natural to contrast servers, considering that there's very few real life examples to draw from... just saying, you don't know how to describe red if you've never seen blue

Agreed, but keep in mind you are not comparing apples to apples, the circumstances of both are very very different.

[Wicca]

I think it is safe to say, that hardcore. Although a very populated server, is an exception to the rule with PR games.

I cant lie to anyone, too many times people have spoken so bad about the server. It is quite sad to see it like that, but i would like to understand it that once people have found a server in PR. They stick to it, and as I dont have any figuers on who joins Hardcore (regular players/ new players). I will simply guess it is regular players joining.

The fact is, they are giving the gameplay that they enjoy. This is not something "we" can change. This mod, this forum does not have the founding rules of democracy behind them allowing anyone to make a change. The power lies with who owns.

So, they play for their own fun, people play on the TG server for fun aswell. But i can tell you, the gameplay is quite different. And thats not a problem. If we all were the same, then we might aswell just call our servers "Project Reality server 1, 2 3 4 5 etc".

I wish to mean no disrespect to the Hardcore clan, but you have in so many ways acted as an entity. And that entity have wrongly done so many of my friends and mates that i play with, that i wont ever play on your server. That doesnt change the fact, you are popular.

But if it would not be to much to ask, please show the people on your server some respect and love. Try communication instead of action. It really suits you better.

Other then that, game on.

// Wicca out

[Sidewinder Zulu]

Generally I enjoy the Hardcore server, back in the day I had some awesome games there (and still do, usually) but there have been a few incidents I've seen that were concerning.

To provide an anecdote; I recently joined a round on the Hardcore server playing Vadso City as the Brits.
The squad I joined (think it was called "Pirates" or some such) was taking the rubber boats that spawn at the British main and driving them up and down the coast looking for Russians. As far as I could tell they were legitimately playing the game, not goofing around.
The SL moved one of the boats up in front of a friendly Firebase, stopping in front of a TOW that was manned by an =]H[= admin. I can't remember his name, and even if I did I wouldn't put it here.
Anyway, my SL asked if the =]H[= guys wanted a ride in our boat to the front lines. They didn't respond, but instead moments later issued a warning that he had to move the boat or be kicked because apparently he was blocking the TOW or something.
For whatever reason he didn't move, and they kicked him. Another guy in our squad, who wasn't involved in this whole situation, jumped into the driver's seat to move the boat out of the way of the TOW, and he was kicked too.
One by one, everyone who was in the boat was kicked, whether or not they were doing anything wrong, and I was the only one in the six-man squad who didn't get booted, mainly because I jumped out of the boat and ran ashore.

Perhaps there was more going on in that situation than I'm aware, and if so I apologize, but from what I saw it was a particularly juvenile and undisciplined use of admin rights.
As I said before, I have respect for a great number of Hardcore admins and nothing against the server in general, but take it from my unbiased perspective that there have been some real abuses of power recently which have tainted the reputation of one of the core PR servers.

On the "if you don't like it, don't play here" concept; I think it's perfectly legitimate, the Hardcore Clan pays for the server and their admins put their own time into making the games run.
That being said, anyone providing a service to a group of people should always try and get their business through choice and favor, rather than necessity. Considering the low number of populated servers at any given time, the "our server, our rules" method usually does (and could continue) to work, but it's an awfully poor show of professionalism and effort if that's the blanket response to any criticism.
The creation of this thread shows that hopefully we won't see more of that attitude, and I commend the Hardcore guys for that.

Just my 2 cents.
Hope everything gets straightened out.

[stealth420]

THERE SERVER IS THE GREATEST ON EARTH


NON STOP COMBAT AND UNCAPS CAN BE ATACKED!!!



WHAT MORE COULD YOU WANT!!!!!!!!


ALL THEY NEED TO DO IS LET SOLIDUS AV8R FLY THERE AGAIN AND ITS WIN AFTER WIN!!!!!!!!

[Dev1200]

THERE SERVER IS THE GREATEST ON EARTH


NON STOP COMBAT AND UNCAPS CAN BE ATACKED!!!



WHAT MORE COULD YOU WANT!!!!!!!!


ALL THEY NEED TO DO IS LET SOLIDUS AV8R FLY THERE AGAIN AND ITS WIN AFTER WIN!!!!!!!!

I whole heartedly agree with this well thought out post.


But srs, normally hardcore is fine. But there are many times where you see stuff you don't see on other servers.

I think it would be best to remove admin powers for all current admins, cycle through your members on the feedback and then have them reapply or give admin to very close members of hardcore hierarchy, and branch out when needed.

[Ratface]

^
^
(not ur post dev, but stealth's )
This does not help at all whatsoever...

How many ban appeals has solidus had now?

When I started PR about a year or two ago, I started a bit on coop and then HOG, tried some TG but the first few games i played disliked because they were disorganized (not saying that is how it is now, but the few games i played starting out i didn't like )

Then I tried =H= and ive been playing on this server since. It's true there have been A LOT of things happening recently, and we've seen some trolls and flammers make some of these things go way to far.

I'm just a regular there when im in the PR mood and usually play against the stack, and while it's true that it is hard to beat, it is very possible when you have pubbers in mumble for communication (which I always join before joining the server).

I like many of the admins i've played with, but I won't go into that because i think we can all agree that plenty has been said about this for the last 7 pages

So i guess the point im trying to make is that when I am in a PR kinda mood, I like to play on this because i have friends, and I also find it a challenge to fight the stack, or even just to have fun and play the game. I am VERY against the idea that the server should be taken down because of the gameplay going on (GAMEPLAY, not admining ), because i think many of us would either switch to different servers or give up on PR for a while because there would be 1 less U.S. server available.

I hope all the =H= admins who have been keeping up with this are reading many of the suggestions and working through the many rages going on, because i'd like to see the server back up soon, it is my and many other player's PR home

(And btw stealth420, uncaps cannot be attacked unless ur on insurgency, probably one reason why solidus was banned)

Thanks for reading

[saXoni]

Ratface, you look like a very typical regular player on Hardcore's server. One that tried a couple of servers but failed and then found Hardcore. Even though a lot of things have happened, you're still playing there. Why is beyond me.

Do you enjoy playing against a totally stacked team? Do you think this is the way to do it? Are you enjoying the Insurgency rounds when you're forced to be on the opposing force, knowing that there's no reason for you to defend, as they're all going for unknowns anyways?

Seriously, instead of playing on a server you know have issues, try finding yourself a new server - I promise you you'll get a completely different view on Project Reality as a modification.

[cyprezz]

OK, help me understand what's going on. Is =H= under investigation in regards to the 5 dollar bribe licensing breach or are they being investigating for unfair teamplay practices and admin abuse as a whole? Just how long will this take until PR makes an announcement regarding their decision?

[Ratface]

1. Yes, i do, i find it as a challenge, especially when i lead good pubbers against the stack and win. Victory is sweeter when this happens

2. While I find the stack fun to play against at times, I do wish for it to become more even, but I play it as a game, which is what this is in the end...a very kickass game.

3. There is reason to defend, because i find to defend knowns all you need is to have scouts reporting enemy positions. Track they're movement, spawn on unknown, fight off ninjas, any way it works to fight a challenge.

4. I have tried other servers, but I play to have some fun, and I can join in with some friends. I spoke as I had before in that I like the server, and just because some people dislike it still after some bad admins doesnt mean I will stop liking it. I've said what I've said, but thanks for your insight, while I may try some others out =H= will be my go-to server

[FLAP_BRBGOING2MOON]

Ratface, you look like a very typical regular player on Hardcore's server. One that tried a couple of servers but failed and then found Hardcore. Even though a lot of things have happened, you're still playing there. Why is beyond me.

Do you enjoy playing against a totally stacked team? Do you think this is the way to do it? Are you enjoying the Insurgency rounds when you're forced to be on the opposing force, knowing that there's no reason for you to defend, as they're all going for unknowns anyways?

Seriously, instead of playing on a server you know have issues, try finding yourself a new server - I promise you you'll get a completely different view on Project Reality as a modification.

just because you cant fathom the idea of defending an unk, doesnt mean others cant. just because you cant imagine how great it feels to succeed when failure is almost guaranteed does not mean others cannot have fun doing it.

or you can act pretentious and bash others for liking different challenges than you do on internet forums all day, hey its all up to you buddy.

[ubernuka]

To the Project Reality Community,

This is Michael w Mace aka mace1141. I have been Apart of Hardcore from the

beginning. What we strive for here at hardcore is to simply play the game/Love the game.

We love it so that we find our self's calling each other brother's rather then clan mat's.

The resign I am telling you this is that it is hard to get to this level of camaraderie ship.

Hardcore strife?s to teach new people on how to play the game in so many level?s. Squad

leading, Flying, Mortars and exc. This is time and time again. Hardcore is a small good

part of the pr community. Some people think other wise but I am here to state a small

part of What I have seen and done.


As Hardcore we Take pride in our forums to where most of this drama is taken care of.

We have grate admen?s that are prompted in there decision and if a public player don't

like that decision They can report them to the admin abuse section. We are a well policed

admen machine. With respect I ask all that have a problem with hardcore to go there and

voice your opinion's so we as a clan can grow and learn to be better.


If this is to out of the way come to are ventrilo channel and We can talk over Voip.

Thank you
Web site hardcoregamingclan.com
VIOP : IP 216.6.224.114 Port number: 3904

Thank you, Have a nice day

Except for me as i am obviously not welcome anymore huh????Inspite of not doing anything wrong in the first place........................................................................and I'm having a very nice day thanks.

[saXoni]

I'm not bashing anyone. I am perfectly aware of that people are different, but I would still like regular Hardcore-players to try out other servers. I believe you misunderstood me.

just because you cant imagine how great it feels to succeed when failure is almost guaranteed does not mean others cannot have fun doing it.

I know how it feels, but this is rare on Hardcore. As Ratface said himself, it is hard to beat a completely stacked team.

[ubernuka]

I 100% agree with notmyingamename. The issues occuring on =]H[= are entirely gameplay flaws, and to me, they don't matter at all. When I first started playing PR on =]H[=, it was the same way it was now. The gameplay was competitive, the community was great. At no point did i rage quit, complain, or even look on the team menu and notice any form of stacking.

The majority of you are talking about the teamstacking issue on Hardcore, more of a gameplay issue than anything else.
On the =]H[= forums, there is a feedback section. About the only thing I see in this section is that of map rotation changes. Rarely, a thread concerning teamstacking will come up, and this is always treated the same. Admins do what they can to ensure fairness on both sides.

Teamstacking does not even necessarily mean all the present =]H[= members on one side. A good player of PR does not need a =]H[= tag, and i find that most don't. Individual clans that frequent our server can often lead to imbalance, but the admins aren't going to split them up: why would you want to play PR specifically with your clanmates if you can't even be on the same team? And the claims of "40 minute rounds" are a rarity, but when they occur, it is because of TEAMWORK/SKILLED players. As I recall, this is the playerbase =]H[= advertises in their server name. All types of players are welcome, but if a player uses teamwork and is skilled (or develops skill), they will find themselves caught up in the entertaining, competitive atmosphere of =]H[=. I honestly see no resolve to the semi-existant teamstacking problem, because it is a gameplay flaw that is inherent to every game of this kind.
As Coeman mentioned the server is the most populous in PR, full at peak times every day. Obviously, they are doing something right.

May i also point out, that this entire issue stemmed from an incredibly obvious troll, who went from ingame, to the hardcore forums, and finally to here.

Listen mate I was not trolling and never do.I had genuine concerns over gameplay which were ignored by the admins who eventually permanent banned me for swearing(not directly at them).From the start YOU have tied to turn me into a troll with false accusations of duplicate accounts and constant attempts to flame me. I would like to say that when i was posting a ban appeal on hardcores forum they were complete arseholes about it. I did all they wanted format wise and even apologised for my alleged infraction. Their respomse was that I was a troll and the implication was that i should be tortured to death on the rack for it.Unless I gave them five dollars of course.
I would like to add that I have played Pr for a good few years now and;
I CAN COUNT MY BANS ON ONE BLOODY HAND.
I DO NOT .(usually )
I PLAY WITHIN THE SPIRIT OF THE RULES.

ALL I EVER WANTED WAS FOR THEM TO STOP BASERAPING US (ON AAS) SO WE COULD GET A GAME TOO..............................................................................................

[wizzard_uk]

good morning ladies an getlemen i have stayed quiet on this issue for now as i am a close freind of Ubernuka and have known him in real life for over 20 years. I was playing on said server when he got the ban an those in our squad where like WTF why did you get banned after which we all left the server and went an played somewhere else not giving it another thought.
in the original letter coeman says that the payment of $5 for an unban was an isolated incidet this next paragraph is copie an pasted from their own forum an i appologise to the person involved for using it but to say it was an isolated incident is wrong for if they can do it once what is stopping them from demanding monies (more commonly known as extortion or blackmail) from others
i gave u a chance to make it up but u blew it but we could fix this , u have 2 options :
1 : buy a nother cd key , change your name and hope we wont catch u , living the life of a fugitive
2 : the new cd key costs about 5 bucks so to get unbanned u could donate 5 bucks ( to know how go to the home page ) your record will be erased , u will come out clean , show us how much u appreciate our server
note : you have 48 hours to response and if u decide to donate your ban will b in the pending state until we recieve your money
start counting as of 01/05/2012 11:40 am , by the time u read this message you have less than 48 hours act fast , offer time limitted

[ Edited Thu Jan 05 2012, 05:39PM ]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


this is on their forum site taken directly from an unban appeal and after reading some of the other forum letters on thier home page i have discovered that it is in fact common practice for them to "charge" ppl to get unbanned dont belive me then i have screen shots if required

[Jafar Ironclad]

Your credibility, wizzard, is almost as puerile as your spelling.