Muttrah gameplay feedback

[Xander[nl]]

The map as it is currently is getting very repetitive and boring.
What it comes down to almost every match is a stalemate between West City and North City. Eventually the MEC will push the USMC back because of their superior infantry (G3 just overpowers the M4s mostly) and capture North City and possibly even Docks.

What might be one of the problems here is that the MEC have 3/4rds of the map to build and hide FOBs in. They can build them way back if they have to, so it's fairly impossible for the USMC to effectively find and overrun them. The trucks are, compared to the Hueys, very quiet and can go anywhere on the map unnoticed. The USMC however are almost always directly compromised because the Hueys give them away. Also, the North City and Docks areas have very limited FOB building possibilities. Only a few places are suitable and all of them are well known.

- Slow down the MEC so the main fight will be between West City and East City (Mosque)
One major fix could be to give the MEC an extra flag, or do something else to slow them down significantly early on. This will result in the USMC being able to capture and secure West City which brings the main fight further into the city. This gives the USMC room for more FOBs and will give them a much greater chance.

It further improves because East City is much harder to defend than West City. The latter is kind of cut off, and only accessible by choke points which favor the defending team. East city can be flanking by at least twice as many approaches and it even leaves the USMC with the possibilities to build FOBs down to the south, as East City is much closer and the walk from a FOB down south to the flag is shorter and less dangerous.

- (Perhaps) Give the USMC one less Huey and one more logistics truck
This will give the USMC more opportunity for proper logistics and will make building FOBs easier as the trucks are harder to track. One truck means it's only used in emergencies right now, and almost never will someone make a logistics squad or even use it. This leaves the team without proper FOBs (yes, they have Hueys but using these for all logistics takes too much time; they also can't hide the crates properly which makes the FOBs very easy to spot) and leaves the AAVPs without field repairs.

- Remove acces to the hills
This is a major flaw in the map IMO. Snipers are annoying but not too much of an issue, but a HAT up in the hills means end of game for all USMC vehicle support. Landing choppers are easy pray as well and can almost always be seen from on top of the hills. It also gives manpads a big advantage.
I'm not sure if it's fair to still give the USMC acces to the hills but it does make more sense for them to position there given the fact that they have choppers. Still, this would only mean access to the northern hills. The western ones should be a no-go for both teams.

- AAVP-7s
These things bother me. They are more dead weight than actually worth something in urban combat. The MEC has two HATs, two TOWs and twice as much APCs of which any can bring down an AAVP fairly easy. They are slow, clumbersome (not to mention they're very tall and the bloody turret sticks out above everything but a skyscraper - which is an easy shot for a HAT) and can't give any proper infantry support or even transport without a taking significant risk of getting a rocket in the face.

This might be because currently the MEC will dig in south of the main road that seperates North and West city which limits the AAVPs significantly because all roads in North City lead straight down to the South. There is no safe approach whatsoever. West City has a lot more bends and less straight roads so resolving the main fight issue might also resolve this.

However, I'm still unsure whether the AAVPs should stay. Personally getting the LAV-25 (at least one) back could give the USMC more of a chance. The LAV-25 can at least properly engage the MEC's APCs and will do much, much better in the transportation role. Not to mention it has way more survivability due to its speed.

The USMC can really use proper asset support, as the Cobra often cannot do much. Getting rid of the APCs and possibly a FOB or two is all, but it cannot hold ground of properly clear it. This is where armor comes in normally, but the AAVPs kind of suck at it.

- A ramp at the repair station
Nothing major, but when the MEC are attacking Docks, and the AAVPs could make a difference, they can't get into the docks properly. They either have to swim around the water dike and risk getting shot while flaoting in between the docks, or land on the beach and drive all the way around the fence which leaves them in North City which is most likely overrun by the MEC. A ramp at the repair station (like one part of the fence fallen down to 70-80 degrees so it can drive over into docks but no one can get out this way) could resolve this.

[SuperHornet]

I agree with adding the LAV-25 and removing the AAV. It's a let down when you drive for 5 minutes to get to docks and end up getting HAT sniped a minute later.

[Mikemonster]

I disagree.. USMC have ninja Hueys and can build roflFOBs behind hills for eager HAT teams.

And MEC have a chronic shortage of logi trucks meaning they only ever seem to have one FOB (USMC Huey Ninjas take out the preceding ones in short time).

The Huey's are invulnerable to AA missiles so can risk flying anywhere on the map. Attacking US squads have free reign behind MEC lines, although can't do much apart from destroying FOB's.

Agreed that it ends in a stalemate though, near that roundabout.

[jerkzilla]

The Huey's are invulnerable to AA missiles so can risk flying anywhere on the map. Attacking US squads have free reign behind MEC lines, although can't do much apart from destroying FOB's.

Agreed that it ends in a stalemate though, near that roundabout.

Not that I actually have anything to say about the current layout, but as I understand, the Hueys will get fixed sometime in the future, so they won't be invulnerable to AA anymore. The idea that Hueys are the USMCs harmony bringing advantage may not be a valid one for long.

[ShockUnitBlack]

The AAVP7s are better than every MEC vehicle except the 30mm MT-LB - I actually ended up driving up behind an AAVP7 the other day with the BTR-60, catching it by total surprise. My gunner shot something like a half a clip of 14.5mm into the back of the thing before it turned around and promptly killed us. I'm pretty sure it managed to make it back to the repair station too.

[Xander[nl]]

Any well experienced BTR crew will never stop to have a slugfest with an AAVP. If the BTR uses it speeds to apply hit and run tactics the AAVP doesn't stand a chance.

But this was not my main point about them. They're simply too slow, too big and too clumpsy for close quarters urban combat. Due to their guns they can't effectively shoot while moving, and stopping means getting killed instantly most of the time. AAVPs normally would advance bit by bit (suppress, move up, suppress, etc), but on Muttrah there is no cover for this type of combat tactic. There are no hills to hide behind, and it sticks out above every wall. Not to mention most streets (at least in NC) are very straight.
The MEC simply has too many AT assets for the AAVPs to be effective in such a closed map.

The only downside of an LAV-25 is that it could be used to rush around the city at full speed killing stuff here and there along the way like they used to do 'back then'. However.. AT has since improved and the MEC often does the same. It would be less effective anyway with only one LAV-25; it would have to be treated like a tank on INS.
I think it would be fair to give the USMC a more powerfull ground asset.

[BadMad]

Absolutely disagree with TS.
Muttrah has pretty nice balance atm.
4 trans choppers + logi truck against only 2(!) logi trucks on MEC side.CAS Huey from the very start of the round.+ 2 AAVP7s.
Whats your problem?-This amount of vehicles is more then enough to rush the city even with West city in 10 minutes.
I'm not even talking about Viper, which can make MEC suffer hardly if USMC will have Commander with UAV and some teamwork to the CAS squad.

If you can't use all that amount of good and effective vehicles to win the enemy, maybe that's just question of skill (and maybe some luck).But not the problem of balance or vehicles possibilities.
No offense.

[Xander[nl]]

I play on *NwA*, which generally has a high level of (public) teamplay. And yet, most of the times I play Muttrah I see the USMC get pushed back to docks.

All the MEC team needs to win is a logistics squad who keep the logis in use instead of squads building one FOB and abandoning it, and the MEC will win (at least terrain wise).

Even stacked USMC teams with lots of clans, against lesser MEC teams get pushed back to docks all the time.


I believe this is simply caused by the FOB system. The USMC only have 1/4th of the map to build FOBs, and there are very few hiding spaces (all are known anyway) in there. The MEC however can easily build the max number of FOB in their part (West and East City flags) of the city. The MEC has an overabundance of good FOB locations and the trucks are hard if not impossible for the USMC to track: the Hueys on the other hand can't land anywhere without attracting a lot of attention (aka ninja FOBs for USMC are quite impossible).

This is why I mainly suggested to take action to shift the main fight from West City, to East City. This gives the USMC more initial terrain, and gives them more FOB locations. Which in turn gives them more of a fighting chance.

[ExeTick]

AAVP destroy that beast in close range easy. but the beast kill the AAVP in long range easy. and I cant say Mec apcs have it easy against USMC hats and tows, they even have to face a cobra.

[PricelineNegotiator]

I feel that Muttrah is one of the most balanced maps on PR at the moment. The only gameplay feedback I would suggest would possibly make the cap zones smaller on all the flags and implement AASv4 so they aren't the same darned flags each time. Wouldn't it be different to have construction, the chokepoint, or the palm trees in a8 as cap zones?

[=]H[= EasyAlpha]

I love muttrah and have only one issue with this map, NOT ENOUGH COVER. every fire fight turn into whos at the best street corner, theres just no cover in the city streets or by buildings, nothing.

wicked idea would be to do like a "Return to Muttrah" perhaps after the city has been bomb to oblivion and players fight in rubble filled streets and the shadow of collapsed buildings. Intense fire fights, heck yes.

[dtacs]

H[= EasyAlpha;1725094']I love muttrah and have only one issue with this map, NOT ENOUGH COVER. every fire fight turn into whos at the best street corner, theres just no cover in the city streets or by buildings, nothing.

How would you go about adding cover to it?

[Mikemonster]

There's loads of cover, it's a city. It's pretty much made of cover.

Use smoke nubs

[dutch]

Yes I disagree also, the choppers and therefor the chance to land infantry behind the Mecc lines are a huge weapon.

Lack ofTeamwork loses the map for USA but not balance.

I have won so many times as USA on Mutrah and vice versa, I see no inbalance, only the poor teamplay will hurt the USA side more cuase they have to fly or use a boat but that is it. One good clan squad that is willing to defend can hold North City and then it is up to the huey's to drop a squad or 2 behind or inbetween west and east city.

[imjustthatguy]

totally agree, i also think we should make aasv4 for that map too.

[imjustthatguy]

this would be perfect, but hueys would be pointless as they can't see at all... maybe make it boat layout and after cap of docks make it spawnable? add lav-25's for marines, and its perfect.

[godfather_596]

access to the hills is so annoying us build fobs and hats up there and start sniping the shit out of everyone

[Murphy]

I miss the lav on this map, it fits quite nicely into the combat style and is a great counter balance for btrs.

[chrisweb89]

Full speed down the streets shooting left and right, the good old LAV.

[[KOR]Frag_Out]

2AAPVs + 1 CAS HUEY + 1 COBRA + Using trans hueys to insert Ninjas behind the frontline??