Karbala and Basrah

[Conman51]

I think these maps are getting a little old, and have the odds really stacked against the insurgents. I think they should be removed or, should be changed a little.

Karbala- This map is a Blufor vehicle whoring rape map. Many areas are just a few buildings with a wire fence around the perimeter. All i see blufor do on this map now is sit back far in the open with their armor and CROWS humvee and rape anything that comes near them and call in airstrikes till they destroy the cache. I suggest making routes between complexes have some buildings along the roads so insurgents can hide and move more freely. It should be insurgents that block the movement of the Blufor, not the other way around. Also Making a stone wall around the refinery would help too. These wire fences are really lame in areas like the refinery ware house area. It just blocks movement and the tank just shoots shells into the warehouse killing every thing inside.

It also doesnt help that Insurgents dont have an SPG technical. They just get bomb cars and trucks that can be easily picked off by the armor sitting in the Open.

I think either the tank should be removed, along with the CROWS and maybe one of the Kiowa attack helicopters.


Basrah- Pretty much has the same problems, except it DOES have the SPG Technical. But again, its just too wide open for insurgents, and mosy of the caches can easily be seen by Vehicles with thermals. Against i suggest adding more brick walls in places like the oil refinery, instead of the shitty wire fences.

In my opinion these fixes will help balance the maps a little more. I would honestly like to see less armor on maps like these and just keep it to transport helicopters and light vehicles. I think they are more suited to that, but as soon as armor with thermals get involved, insurgents cant do much but camp in a corner waiting for mortars to kill them.

[TomDackery]

Disagree completely.

[Conman51]

Disagree completely.

Troll.

Want to be more precise?

[TomDackery]

Karbala shouldn't be removed, the tank should be removed. Otherwise, use teamwork, and hit the tank when its moving, not when its set in position and constantly scanning like most armor crews will do. Once the tank is down, it doesn't respawn, nullifying your claim. Kiowas can be shot down with AA easily.
Basrah: Just no. Theres no vehicle that can't be killed by a well aimed RPG on this map. I don't see that being overpowered when theres so many RPGs it could possibly be ridiculous.

So in the way I disagree, I would say either not editing them at all, or making one tiny change, not a complete overhaul or removal.

Is that elaborated enough for you?

[jerkzilla]

On Karbala, the insurgents can't afford nearly as much asset loss as the US can. All they need are maybe 2 Strykers but they get a whole lot more than that. They practically depend on the US making mistakes and that's hardly good gameplay. Essentially, the ammount of teamwork you need win as US isn't nearly as big as what you need to win as insurgents. Also, most caches spawns are in areas that are very easy to cut off for the US, like the NW suburbs, the SE suburbs, the industrial complexes, the mosque area or that mansion thing the SE of the map, and what's worse is that caches ALWAYS spawn there, so there's a massive risk of losing a few unknown caches that way.

Basrah is a lot less lopsided because the routes the British need to take to get around the map are a whole lot more predictable and the outskirts of the city offer much more cover than the practically flat terrain of Karbala. Basrah is pretty much fine, despite the fact that the cache locations are getting very predictable but Karbala has serious balancing issues.

[Conman51]

Maybe Basrah isnt really that much of a problem, but i think some of the suggestions i made about Karbala will help improve it.

[ShockUnitBlack]

Karbala, I think, is dated. There's a lot of street and not much else.

[Navo]

Karbala, I think, is dated. There's a lot of street and not much else.

It was introduced in 0.8.

[Mikemonster]

Karbala is a bit frustrating because it's a camp and kill map for Opfor. With Kiowas it's a bit too much roflpwnage to take at times.

Adding lots of trenches would be very nice to see, presumably some were dug prior to the invasion and it'd give the insurgents some more cover.

Actually on that point it'd be cool to see more trenches used on Insurgency maps. I'm talking out of my arse again aren't I?

[jerkzilla]

Adding lots of trenches would be very nice to see, presumably some were dug prior to the invasion and it'd give the insurgents some more cover.

Actually on that point it'd be cool to see more trenches used on Insurgency maps. I'm talking out of my arse again aren't I?

Canals, embankments, just about anything like that would help insurgents get around. It'd be great if they were deep enough to conceal technicals too.
But if changes like this were made, mind as well add some more city for some extra cache locations.

[Hitman.2.5]

I dont like how you have to walk every where as insurgent can we have a ratio of 5 bikes to one insurgent?

[Rudd]

More vehicles for the insurgents just increases the rate of wastage imo, insurgents need a teleport system much more - between their hideouts.


Re Karbala, I definately agree blufor gets too much juice. Remove Tank, remove Kiowas, add a trans helo and another APC

[Navo]

To be honest, Insurgents should have a number of fixed spawnpoints all over the map. They're insurgents: They live in that city, so it doesn't make sense they only operate out of one place (main) and a series of hideouts.

[spiked_rye]

To be honest, Insurgents should have a number of fixed spawnpoints all over the map. They're insurgents: They live in that city, so it doesn't make sense they only operate out of one place (main) and a series of hideouts.

Nail, head, right on the. . . Can't the ASSv4 system be used to randomise these spawns as well?

[tankninja1]

I don't want Karbala to end up like Basrah were nobody ever plays the tank version of the map, if there is a tank version. The tank isn't that overpowered on this map, usually because bad tank crews get the asset first, about 50% of the time the tank is lost within 20 minutes. It also helps on this map if someone on the insurgent team knowns where the arty ied kit is hidden, but if you know where it is don't go telling all the players in PR because some people will go out into the desert without killing all the bridges first.

[FLAP_BRBGOING2MOON]

I don't want Karbala to end up like Basrah were nobody ever plays the tank version of the map, if there is a tank version. The tank isn't that overpowered on this map, usually because bad tank crews get the asset first, about 50% of the time the tank is lost within 20 minutes. It also helps on this map if someone on the insurgent team knowns where the arty ied kit is hidden, but if you know where it is don't go telling all the players in PR because some people will go out into the desert without killing all the bridges first.

yeah, i don't get it i have personally killed the tank so many times on this map. its so easy.

you string up the area north of old main with arty ieds, and mine off the south area, blow the bridges, and then stalk the tank with the bombcar. he either passes blind corners and gets bombcar'd or gets arty'd up north. it just takes a little bit of teamwork, people seem to think one insurgent should be able to kill anything he wants to completely alone.

there, i have totally shot myself in the foot because i love to tank on this map. countering it is a simple as identifying chokepoints and setting ambushes on them.

[Mikemonster]

Wouldn't worry about it, assets on Ins side are a free for all, usually the players with no situational awareness get them and drive straight towards the tank over open ground.


I suggested trenches rather than abandoned cars etc because I find it strange to think that NO preperation was done for an assault by Saddam before the U.S. forces arrived.

This goes for almost all maps to be honest. A few networks of trenches and some destroyed military hardware (like the Saxon wreck on Basrah) would spice things up a bit and give the Insurgents a little bit of variation on the flat bits.

Although the flat bits do serve a purpose - they allow the armour to actually be as powerful as it is 'IRL'.

[Mad-Mike]

Al Basrah should never be removed from PR Its alot of players fravourite map and it helps fill servers.
Karbala is a great map aswell but people have different opinions on different maps.

[pr|Zer0]

Karbala needs overhaul..some more buildings and some terrain modification...basrah is fine the way it is

[Bradley364]

Here is a concept I came up with while reading everyone's comments on Karbala.

Why not take it in a more radical direction, and design the map like some kind of insurgent fortress/city. Using the trenches, while also making the entire place more weathered, more entrenched. Think junkyard metal scraped together to make walls. Also think of creating an environment where the insurgents could have a networks of trenches and walls to effectively pull back when over-run, only to ambush and destroy the American forces.

Obviously I think the assets for the US would then stay the same. Karbala could be an insurgent map that can be known for its intensity and viciousness, as the US needs strong tactics and a hard, coordinated attack if they want to get any foothold in the cities or other fortified areas the mappers could come up with.

Do you know what I mean or am I just crazy?