Too much ammo?

[Archosaurus]

What really scares me is a MG shooting at me - rifles are fine.

I don't have problems with MG's unless I'm in a completely open area with no cover of any kind.

Fire and forget weapons on the other hand.........

[Tarranauha200]

Please no offtopic anymore. This has gone to discussion about what is best way to use ammo and is supressions effect good enough.

Is there too much ammo or not?

[Mikemonster]

I disagree, the way to not die is to use that ammunition realistically. which is to dump it on the enemy positions to keep their heads down. IRL in a combat environment we can be carrying up to 18 mags and be carry several boxes of additional ammunition in our day packs. Conservation of ammo is only a concern when logistics might be hard to acquire. other wise it is usually in your best interest to dump rounds on target.



...

Realism: Serving soldier^ says there is not enough ammo.

Gameplay: Relative to individuals, I think there is too much, but don't really care tbh.

My only gripe (problem) with the current ammo levels is that it encourages people to shoot badly. Not the end of the world though.

[declan54321]

I just played around 4 hours of PR, involving 3 rounds (2 skirmish). I ran out of ammo precisely 7 times. I think we should leave it as it is, instead of reducing it!

[SmoothIsFast6]

I'm always looking for ammo after I've wasted 10+ enemy who made the mistake of getting too close

[=HCM= Shwedor]

I always run out of ammo using the Lee-Enfield sniper rifle and the makarov... Sometimes with MG's. Almost never with assault rifles though, their current load is about right.

[Mikemonster]

I always run out of ammo using the Lee-Enfield sniper rifle and the makarov... Sometimes with MG's. Almost never with assault rifles though, their current load is about right.

Known problem to be fixed in the next release, they accidentally put the number of mags as the number of rounds!

[splatters]

If you never run out of ammo it means that you die too often or that your team has amazing supply lines.

I've had many games where my squad is holding an objective but lose it eventually because no re-supply is available and we run out of ammo and can't sustain the fire that's needed to fend off the enemy.

Also, suppressing fire is very effective if employed right in any shooter. Suppressing fire doesn't mean spray and pray, it has to be accurate or it's just a waste of ammo.

[pr|Zer0]

Always out of ammo on AR and unscoped assault kits...somewhow, having a ACOG makes me aim more than i really have to

[Tarranauha200]

The problem aint too much ammo. The problem is that you die really fast and respawn with full ammo.

[Rigan]

You just die before you use your ammo in most cases, live long enough in intense fire and you soon run out of ammo.


Saying that though, I wouldn't mind if the average kit was dropped down a few mags just to add more logistic needs (which usually premotes more teamplay).

[pr|Zer0]

RESOURCE POOL: put all the ammo/vehicles/weapond/kits in one single pool, and when it depletes , you loose(aka no resources to fight the war)
ON topic: Now, my only reason to whine/troll/flame/***** is the AR kit only...

[Xander[nl]]

The problem aint too much ammo. The problem is that you die really fast and respawn with full ammo.

Not to mention that suppressing fire (at least with assault rifles) is next to useless in PR, which saves you a lot of ammo.

[illidur]

i think the biggest reason to have alot of ammo is that you dont keep half full or mags with 1 bullet missing by reloading like you do in RL... happens alot to me. never know when im going to have to gun down a whole squad or my last bullet might make the difference between me and him dead. im always full mag.

[PFunk]

;1737099']Not to mention that suppressing fire (at least with assault rifles) is next to useless in PR, which saves you a lot of ammo.

I wouldn't go that far. Its definitely not as effective, but then thats why in real life you're supposed to be firing in concert with at least a couple other riflemen basically creating a kind of volley fire that is at least half way effective. The issue is twofold in my opinion however:

Number 1 is that people are far too concerned with sniping aimed shots EVERY TIME they see an enemy. On top of that many people really suck at shooting cause they don't understand deviation so they get killed really easily.

Number 2 is that people who are doing Number 1 basically freeze when being told to suppress. They get a market or a bearing or a target but if they don't SEE an enemy they con't contemplate why they should be shooting. If I could get the average pubbie squad of riflemen to just shoot at something that I tell them to all at once then I'd be far more effective when I can't get my friends online.

People in this game don't USE their bloody ammunition. Thats why people always feel like they have too much. They suck at shooting so even the few shots they fire often land them dead. A proper squad pouring down ridiculous amounts of ammunition is scary. Go watch an SRF video on youtube and listen to the symphony of full auto AK. Those guys know how to react to contact and usually it means an empty mag and a wholepile of dead bad guys.

If people used their ammo properly you'd hear people wishing they had MORE!

[CAS_117]

90% of the kills in PR atm are from close range (<25m) on full auto.

[40mmrain]

90% of the kills in PR (WITH STANDARD RIFLES) atm are from close range (<25m) on full auto.

so, like real life.

[Bob of Mage]

I rarely run low on ammo, not because there's too much, or that I don't know how to play, but because I alway start thinking about getting more when I have 4-5 mags left. I plan ahead so I never have issues unless I'm getting routed.

Suppressing fire will make you keep your head down when it never stops. Try playing Helmend Fields (0.95 Co-op mappack) with bots on high settings. You have a hard time not being suppress when 6+ bots fireing on full auto are attacking. It really makes you put your head down when you can be hit by the sheer mass of rounds fired (the bots walk while fireing from the hip, yet they still kill at range when they have AKs).

[CAS_117]

so, like real life.

Well that includes LMGs and pistols as well if we're being so particular. And I as far as real life fighting goes, someone who's been there could better answer that.

Maybe its just the maps I've played on but the fighting is very dispersed at the moment. I figured it would be something like this when rally points were removed (or spawning on them); its more or less 1 v 1 lone wolf battles over and over. A contest of marksmanship isn't what the deviation is based on, rather a volume of fire approach. And its not because people aren't trying to play as a team or anything, its just that there are so many objectives assigned to a platoon (32 soldiers) that in reality would take a battalion to secure that to cover it all people just have to spread out a lot. Because its so spread out most of the time, people never really get 'fixed' via suppression as there's always a way to retreat. So most people wisely choose to get close so they can be sure their target is dead. Full auto just happens to be the fastest option when within 20m or so.

If/when the 200 player count is more widely adopted, I think suppression will be a more practical tactic. Right now there's just too many places to cover and too few people to cover them.

The other problem is that in urban terrain, the force density is supposed to be 1 platoon/building. To reach the kind of volume of fire that the game's going for, if a map has a city, it needs to be the only objective. Right now there is usually a squad or 2 in a city that has to cover the WHOLE city. Right now we have very linear war ww2 type gameplay dynamics with non-linear Somalia, Iraq type situations.

With no (continuous) rally point spawning, its a platoon fight rather than company fight. Maps however have increased to company/battalion size objectives. For the volume of fire that people seem to want, map sizes need to be about skirmish size and not much bigger. Otherwise suppression isn't viable.