Insurgents can't win

[JustJason]

Let's just be simple about it.

There are GREAT cache spawns and horrible ones. But that doesn't make the game bad at all? I've seen some of the WORST caches ever be held off for a long LONG time. The only fact of when it fails is when there is no hideout to spawn on and people ALWAYS give up in half a second, and only due to there being no civis, or civi never healing. Then they all just spawn at a unknown and give it away and it happen over and over again.

But the more important thing is that people just get bored at times... There might be this epic cache spot and the Insurgents have it covered, and the bufor team doesn't come for awhile then people just start trolling around, keeping them self busy and not to the point of boredom of alt f4. Then bufor comes when no one expects it and the cache gets killed... We've all been there.

OH! A little off the main topic but C4 is massively OP! YES! On stupid freaking cave caches where the bufor are forced to climb up a ladder into 200000000 Insurgents, yes! Be my guest! But when there is a good cashe spawn and there some what more of a fair battle, and ONE! Guy comes in with C4 and blows it up. It pretty much ruins it for the Insurgent side.

Oh, and plus some of the rules some servers are enforcing for Insurgent games are massively stupid just saying.

[badmojo420]

May I ask those who think servers should enforce the team coordination, what stance should the server admins take if a squad leader is doing amazing with his own squad, and helps others around him, but he refuses to follow a command from the commander. For example, if he was ordered to defend a position that wasn't seeing any action. Should the player be punished for wanting to do his own thing?

It's examples like this that I feel make it very difficult to pull off team strategies on public servers. Nobody wants to do the shit jobs, and there are some who don't want to be told what to do ever, they usually just ignore you.


Anyway, I have to agree that PFunks wall of text was of little value. Everybody here knows how to play properly, we don't need a tactics lesson in a thread about changing a game mode.

[=LK= A.H.]

What's wrong with you? The man's telling the truth, and you're like: "Shut up."

I have a problem with him basically stating the same thing over and over again at length, constantly more than hinting at his own perceived superiority. Pub servers aren't even those abysms of (teenaged?) lone wolves running about with sniper kits he describes.

Nothing against teamwork but please do not talk about enforcing Mumble on every server or anything like that. You can reserve some servers for that if that's what you're into, but I myself am very much capable of teamwork without it and sometimes I just want to play without a 'tactiboner'.

[Brainlaag]

I have a problem with him basically stating the same thing over and over again at length, constantly more than hinting at his own perceived superiority. Pub servers aren't even those abysms of (teenaged?) lone wolves running about with sniper kits he describes.

Nothing against teamwork but please do not talk about enforcing Mumble on every server or anything like that. You can reserve some servers for that if that's what you're into, but I myself am very much capable of teamwork without it and sometimes I just want to play without a 'tactiboner'.

That is were vanilla kicks in, nothing to find on PR servers with that attitude.

[Who Dares Wins]

In my experience when people get stuck on the Insurgents they just run about like idiots. Rarely do you ever see a squad together in a single place, more often those green dots will be littered all over the place. I don't know if Dat Red just warps peoples minds and turns them into idiots the second they're forced on the Insurgent team or something. When many members of your team are doing this - even if there are a few coordinated squads - it becomes extremely difficult to win seeing as how the underdogs now lost half their team to random rambos.

[Warfighter]

I think what a good amount of people fail to realize, is that playing as an insurgent isn't an excuse or golden ticket to act like an idiot. What Dare Who Wins statement is right. Too many games you see the insurgent team littered around the map. I think its the influx of the PR "Kiddies" that watch too many insurgent videos or play COD too much and think that when you see one insurgent by himself that he is fighting solo. Many times in Iraq of A-Stan, you will see civilians with phones or radios, and many of them are confirmed to be talking with combatants feeding them intel on troop movements. Many people use "civi" kits as a "do not shoot me or you lose points" kit, but a small fraction use them to a higher tactical advantage and follow the enemy reporting what they see.

Any time my unit plays PR with me, we specifically ask and try to get team-switched to insurgency, no matter the map. Playing as insurgents is more complex, and is tougher, that is the whole point. Would it be any fun if you knew you were going to win with little to no trouble at all? Its challenge that makes it fun. And people really about this, its not taking out enemies that will reduce their tickets, taking out their LITV's, LOG trucks, helo's, and other such vehicles will drastically cut their tickets.

So all in all, insurgents need to destroy enemy vehicles and equipment, need to stop using "insurgency" as an excuse to act like a dumbass, and pull up defenses around caches.

[Steeps]

I would like to add that I just played an Insurgency match on Operation Marlin yesterday, and my team (insurgents) absolutely dominated the Canadian team. They only got one cache in a time frame of 3 hours and 30 minutes. It took them three hours for ONE cache.


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[SGT.Ice]

May I ask those who think servers should enforce the team coordination, what stance should the server admins take if a squad leader is doing amazing with his own squad, and helps others around him, but he refuses to follow a command from the commander. For example, if he was ordered to defend a position that wasn't seeing any action. Should the player be punished for wanting to do his own thing?

It's examples like this that I feel make it very difficult to pull off team strategies on public servers. Nobody wants to do the shit jobs, and there are some who don't want to be told what to do ever, they usually just ignore you.


Anyway, I have to agree that PFunks wall of text was of little value. Everybody here knows how to play properly, we don't need a tactics lesson in a thread about changing a game mode.

Wrong. Most people don't know how to play properly. Most of the time they walk around like chickens with their heads cut off. ESPECIALLY on insurgency.

People do give up too fast now a days due to the lack of backlash on tickets & lack of civis. 99% of the time I just play civi for the lulz.

In my experience when people get stuck on the Insurgents they just run about like idiots. Rarely do you ever see a squad together in a single place, more often those green dots will be littered all over the place. I don't know if Dat Red just warps peoples minds and turns them into idiots the second they're forced on the Insurgent team or something. When many members of your team are doing this - even if there are a few coordinated squads - it becomes extremely difficult to win seeing as how the underdogs now lost half their team to random rambos.

For me and many other's that's because we have our people doing odd jobs or doing seperate tasks. Ever think some of them are just covering more ground? Some people cover more ground to get the tactical advantage or heads up to the team quicker. Some just run around.

War I take it you meant IFV's & Logis

I personally love marlin because the geography is best suited for insurgency, the whole thing's not flat the height varies/terrain, giving insurgents the tactical advantages they need to win.

[badmojo420]

Wrong. Most people don't know how to play properly. Most of the time they walk around like chickens with their heads cut off. ESPECIALLY on insurgency.

I said most people here know how to play. I tend to find that the people who frequent the PR forums are some of the best members of the PR community and are rarely the problem players you speak of.

[illidur]

sgt ice isn't wrong per say, but its not the problem. it has less to do with the player base's skill and strategy, but more the ones who have it. the average insurgency player doesn't stage a "phantom cache" or "fake cache". or would even think about defending a random cache spawn (as if they know them) for the sole purpose of distracting experienced cache killers.

but the difficulty in doing it is far more than blufor walking up to a building with insurgents pouring out of it. here is where the 200+ meter cache spawn mechanic adds more salt to the wound. so the blufor are keeping track of where the next cache could be, and those are the only places you can FOR SURE make a fake cache. so basically who knows this? experience players. if i am blufor driving my squad across the desert and see a bunch of nerf herders around an area i know isn't a possible cache (200m+) i'll just avoid them and look for the real unknown. easy to spot unknown, hard to defend it = problem.

[SGT.Ice]

sgt ice isn't wrong per say, but its not the problem. it has less to do with the player base's skill and strategy, but more the ones who have it. the average insurgency player doesn't stage a "phantom cache" or "fake cache". or would even think about defending a random cache spawn (as if they know them) for the sole purpose of distracting experienced cache killers.

but the difficulty in doing it is far more than blufor walking up to a building with insurgents pouring out of it. here is where the 200+ meter cache spawn mechanic adds more salt to the wound. so the blufor are keeping track of where the next cache could be, and those are the only places you can FOR SURE make a fake cache. so basically who knows this? experience players. if i am blufor driving my squad across the desert and see a bunch of nerf herders around an area i know isn't a possible cache (200m+) i'll just avoid them and look for the real unknown. easy to spot unknown, hard to defend it = problem.

While I see fake caches 1/5 games I think the overall problem is the nerf on the cache marker, to such a small radius, before when it could be within 160 or so of the marker the insurgents seemed to have a greater chance. 40M, ok it can be in one of these 5 buildings.

[Arnoldio]

I have a problem with him basically stating the same thing over and over again at length, constantly more than hinting at his own perceived superiority. Pub servers aren't even those abysms of (teenaged?) lone wolves running about with sniper kits he describes.

Nothing against teamwork but please do not talk about enforcing Mumble on every server or anything like that. You can reserve some servers for that if that's what you're into, but I myself am very much capable of teamwork without it and sometimes I just want to play without a 'tactiboner'.

Nothing against you, but please do not talk about not enforcing Mumble on on every server or anything like that. You can reserve some of that nonsense for later if that's what you're in to, but I myself am very much capable on kicking your *** with it and sometimes I just want to punch people in the 'face'.

[=LK= A.H.]

Nothing against you, but please do not talk about not enforcing Mumble on on every server or anything like that. You can reserve some of that nonsense for later if that's what you're in to, but I myself am very much capable on kicking your *** with it and sometimes I just want to punch people in the 'face'.

Internet tough guy, huh? (Try and punch me over the internet)
If it were actually really good, you wouldn't have to enforce it. Right now people get by without using it, so why force people to use something they don't feel they need? Are you going to be the arbiter for what's good and right for everyone?. In addition, my post might have been poorly worded for it was nearly 4 am.

[Arnoldio]

Cant punch you, but i can capslock you to death!

Anyway, there is still plenty of servers not enforcing.

[=LK= A.H.]

Cant punch you, but i can capslock you to death!
Anyway, there is still plenty of servers not enforcing.

I think it would be best for the players on those servers to move to Mumble of their own volition (if at all).

[reozm]

Wait, what's so bad about making people use Mumble? It certainly does let people communicate with other squads better, something essential for defending caches. And Mumble is free, easy to install, easy to log in to, and doesn't take up much memory. I don't see any problem with forcing people to use Mumble.

[SGT.Ice]

Internet tough guy, huh? (Try and punch me over the internet)
If it were actually really good, you wouldn't have to enforce it. Right now people get by without using it, so why force people to use something they don't feel they need? Are you going to be the arbiter for what's good and right for everyone?. In addition, my post might have been poorly worded for it was nearly 4 am.

People seem to get a hell of a lot more done with it. I can now directly communicate with squads and people in my presence which was not possible before and now I can coordinate or give people target info/intel in real time.

Wait, what's so bad about making people use Mumble? It certainly does let people communicate with other squads better, something essential for defending caches. And Mumble is free, easy to install, easy to log in to, and doesn't take up much memory. I don't see any problem with forcing people to use Mumble.

Need more be said?

[manligheten]

Internet tough guy, huh? (Try and punch me over the internet)
If it were actually really good, you wouldn't have to enforce it. Right now people get by without using it, so why force people to use something they don't feel they need? Are you going to be the arbiter for what's good and right for everyone?. In addition, my post might have been poorly worded for it was nearly 4 am.

Have you tested the new Mumble? I though as you, with the old version of mumble, but the new one is so much better.

[=-=kittykiller]

insurgents cant win eh! now is the problem the player base?
thats stoopid the player base is the mod
is the problem the game mechanics, both active and passive mechanics

i.e. 2 manning a tank is active control, encouraging squad play via cell leaders is passive

now this is the dam problem insurgency is to damned complicated no ONE and i meen NO ONE has any idea what level of intel is being generated, its just to much for the average player meaning that intel just becomes useless especially as intel is gained far faster than its lost.

we need AN intel meter (call it anything) and we need a massive simplification of the rules so that they make sense and players can keep within them and have a good sense of what they are doing. FACT

being pinned in by blufor on small maps sucks. This leads to the entire ins team being corraled and smashed to bits as blufor finds hidden caches.

we need simpler rules, less penalty for civilians, visible goals for ins team, with great teamplay ins can win but it mostly depends ON THE MAP!!

The map is the CORE most valuable asset in PR they take years to build and good ones dont come along often ! FURTHER all maps are subjected to fiddling with the game mechanics which they were often built around. So we end up with these ins maps feeling sometimes like relics playing badly. That is why i feel the only way to make ins play properly is to simplify their game mode give clear objectives (much like many table top wargames are simplified)

insurgents can win but its dam hard no one knows why they are playing often rather than a few extravegant revenge kills.

[Brainlaag]

insurgents cant win eh! now is the problem the player base?
thats stoopid the player base is the mod
is the problem the game mechanics, both active and passive mechanics

i.e. 2 manning a tank is active control, encouraging squad play via cell leaders is passive

now this is the dam problem insurgency is to damned complicated no ONE and i meen NO ONE has any idea what level of intel is being generated, its just to much for the average player meaning that intel just becomes useless especially as intel is gained far faster than its lost.

we need AN intel meter (call it anything) and we need a massive simplification of the rules so that they make sense and players can keep within them and have a good sense of what they are doing. FACT

being pinned in by blufor on small maps sucks. This leads to the entire ins team being corraled and smashed to bits as blufor finds hidden caches.

we need simpler rules, less penalty for civilians, visible goals for ins team, with great teamplay ins can win but it mostly depends ON THE MAP!!

The map is the CORE most valuable asset in PR they take years to build and good ones dont come along often ! FURTHER all maps are subjected to fiddling with the game mechanics which they were often built around. So we end up with these ins maps feeling sometimes like relics playing badly. That is why i feel the only way to make ins play properly is to simplify their game mode give clear objectives (much like many table top wargames are simplified)

insurgents can win but its dam hard no one knows why they are playing often rather than a few extravegant revenge kills.

And could you tell me why didn't we face such massive problems in the past? As said many many times before, those major changes to the Insurgency gamemode were made prior to 0.9, yet people started complaining in the past 6 months (more or less, as rant threads always existed but never in this magnitude).

What else could be the reason but the playerbase when no gamechanges were adapted and included recently.