For the millionth time... (Deviation)

[MrTomRobs]

I'd like to say my piece and say that I think the amount of deviation currently in game is just rediculous! It takes far too long to let deviation settle to anything anywhere near something where you can hit someone 100m away, and the deviation cone is so big you might as well be giving an M249 to a 3 year old who can barely pick it up!

I think the above Pulp Fiction reference is pretty much bang on. 4 metres away, unload a mag in what most people would consider to be their general direction, and you're shooting sheep about a kilometre to your right... MENTAL!

Don't get me wrong, i think the inclusion of deviation is a great concept, i just think there's too much of it, for too long.

/my2cents

[FLAP_BRBGOING2MOON]

go play fh2, then tell me deviation in pr makes the game worse.

[killonsight95]

I do think the cone should be reduced in max size!
however i love the timing, the timing is fine and great etc. It's just the extreme bad end is to big.
reduce it by 25% in the next patch and see how it goes?

[Instinct42]

I thought room clearances were done on full auto? Never heard of the SAS selecting semi for hostage rescue.

I'm not a soldier, but does the current system present real-life results with CQB? I feel that at the moment the defending guy who is not scoped in is at a massive disadvantage compared to the guy who is crouched and aiming at the entry point (i.e. a door). This makes it quite hard to attack, and imho is how it should be.

Mind you, in real life I doubt combatants would run casually with their guns at their hips in a combat zone!

GRAPHIC Special Forces Combat Up Close and Personal (Afghanistan) - YouTube

Here is a video *irl* according to the video descrip. of a special ops with ANA clearing a hut on semi-auto fire.

PS. its veryyyy graphic...not really

[pr|Zer0]

FINE !?!?!?! it's shity, i love the game but shooting is absurd

lol.....try playing 0.8 or 0.87( one of this 2 had the worst deviation in PR, keep forgetting which one) and come back after that.

you either can't handle a .22(witch is impossible) even a 3 years old can fire it or your the worst shooter on the planet ....

-it's impossible to miss a target at 25 meter even without aiming , 50 meter yeah depend on the shooter(we're taking about trained soldier not Somalian) , a 100 meter + then yes but 3 second you should hit pin point where your aiming at not a foot off ....
-time between shot yes , the bigger the caliber the biggest kick you take the longer you have to wait

At the core, PR is a FPS game, not a ballistic/military simulator

[Stealthgato]

I still say maximum deviation should be lowered.

[SGT.Ice]

I've never had issues with deviation in short range. Only times I've missed in short range was on full auto, spriting towards someone and just trying to no-scope that crawling little dude.

In fact, I think you might be overdoing it a little bit, but I don't know if that's what you want to say. I mean, 5ft? Okay, but seriously, 30 yards? It's not that bad.

If you walk for 5 seconds or even move for 1, bring sights up and try and hit a guy that just turned the corner 5-10 feet in front of you. Your shots will hit 3-6 feet on either side 80% of the time. It's a serious problem.

I still say maximum deviation should be lowered.

Get this man a beer.

[Mikemonster]

GRAPHIC Special Forces Combat Up Close and Personal (Afghanistan) - YouTube

Here is a video *irl* according to the video descrip. of a special ops with ANA clearing a hut on semi-auto fire.

PS. its veryyyy graphic...not really

Thanks for that, like I said, i'm no soldier! Paradigm shift for me

[tankninja1]

The deviation on the CTAR-21 seems to be off, it take 2 secs for it to put a first round on target, and has almost no recoil on full-auto, IRL it has preformance capabilites similar to the M16 and M4 which ingame it takes 4 secs to put a first round on target, and its recoil is fairly high for a 5.56, the third round in a 3 round burst mode is always off target too.

[TheAmazingYant]

The deviation on the CTAR-21 seems to be off, it take 2 secs for it to put a first round on target, and has almost no recoil on full-auto, IRL it has preformance capabilites similar to the M16 and M4 which ingame it takes 4 secs to put a first round on target, and its recoil is fairly high for a 5.56, the third round in a 3 round burst mode is always off target too.

To my knowledge all the assault rifles have the same deviation settings, and the 5.56mm ones treat recoil the same way as well, so any differences for you are likely an aberration.

I don't have a problem with the deviation system - it favors teamwork and smart play over more reckless tactics. I like to think of the deviation as a representation of the things that PR and the BF2 engine _can't_ really simulate. It takes time to shoulder a rifle coming off a full sprint, and more time to focus over sights and prepare a good firing stance.

Regardless, I think the system helps to generate the style of play that makes PR so much better than other games.

[Mj Pain]

I don't have a problem with the deviation system - it favors teamwork and smart play over more reckless tactics. I like to think of the deviation as a representation of the things that PR and the BF2 engine _can't_ really simulate. It takes time to shoulder a rifle coming off a full sprint, and more time to focus over sights and prepare a good firing stance.

Regardless, I think the system helps to generate the style of play that makes PR so much better than other games.

My thoughts exactly, give this man a beer..

[SGT.Ice]

My thoughts exactly, give this man a beer..

So what you're really saying is you guys prefer not being able to hit people 50 feet away with a couple quick shots as any normal human being with even minimal training would when we're playing as people that have months/years of training. Even though they train to hit targets at 300 feet with ease, yet if you try you shoot 6 feet to the right and 2 feet in front of you.

Shouldering your weapon does not take 4-5 seconds. Nor should it take that long to hit someone point blank accurately.

I guess teamwork is a squad of 6 having to all fire a mag at the guy down the street to get one shot on target.

[Psyrus]

So what you're really saying is you guys prefer not being able to hit people 50 feet away with a couple quick shots as any normal human being with even minimal training would when we're playing as people that have months/years of training. Even though they train to hit targets at 300 feet with ease, yet if you try you shoot 6 feet to the right and 2 feet in front of you.

Shouldering your weapon does not take 4-5 seconds. Nor should it take that long to hit someone point blank accurately.

I guess teamwork is a squad of 6 having to all fire a mag at the guy down the street to get one shot on target.

In short - Yes. Clearly, you don't like it.

Edit: Just noticed a pattern over the last 4 posts
...
*interesting*

[Mj Pain]

So what you're really saying is you guys prefer not being able to hit people 50 feet away with a couple quick shots as any normal human being with even minimal training would when we're playing as people that have months/years of training. Even though they train to hit targets at 300 feet with ease, yet if you try you shoot 6 feet to the right and 2 feet in front of you.

Shouldering your weapon does not take 4-5 seconds. Nor should it take that long to hit someone point blank accurately.

I guess teamwork is a squad of 6 having to all fire a mag at the guy down the street to get one shot on target.

You really need to stop exaggerating..
If you cant hit a mansized target from 50 feet(15m) within 1 second you got other issues than the games deviation.

About hitting stuff at 300 feet (91m)..Thats like a footballfield. Do you really think that real soldiers can run around like we do ingame, spot a target across that field and get a bodyhit within 1 sec? Hell no!
Just ask any of our dear military advisors.
Going from sprint and see target, to stop and take a knee, bring sights up, control breath (remember, u been running) and get a good hit on target should take 4-5 sec.

Deviation is good and better than it has ever been. Back in 0.8 you really needed the hole squad to take down one enemy

[Psyrus]

You really need to stop exaggerating.

Deviation is good and better than it has ever been. Back in 0.8 you really needed the hole squad to take down one enemy

Yeah man, these young'uns have no idea how sweet they have it

[SGT.Ice]

Above comments retracted seeing as they do me no good and i'm not in the mood to take the bait.

If you go into game and fire a few rounds in succession with even just under 1 second sometimes more or go crouched after walking for a while you'll see what i'm talking about.

[Wicca]

Above comments retracted seeing as they do me no good and i'm not in the mood to take the bait.

If you go into game and fire a few rounds in succession with even just under 1 second sometimes more or go crouched after walking for a while you'll see what i'm talking about.

Get a real gun, start running around and crawling and shooting things. Tell me how much shit you hit. The current system is good. I know, i get alot of kills.

[PoisonBill]

I find the annoying part being you never know how accurate you will fire, there should be SOMETHING telling you the difference of hitting a coin and a cow from five meters.

I have 'never' fired a firearm, rifle or cannon. But I do expect that you would know when you can fire and hit your target, right now deviation is a guessing game only to be tamed by camping in a corner.

Something like the HAT indicator on the side/middle, as you scope/ironsight? with your rifle should be tested.

[Murphy]

Or you could practice and get the timings down on your own so you don't need a cross-hair (crutch) telling you when to shoot. Everyone has problems with deviation from time to time, but with practice and patience you will begin to instinctively judge the cone of fire.

[SGT.Ice]

[quote=""'[R-CON"]Wicca;1740997']Get a real gun, start running around and crawling and shooting things. Tell me how much shit you hit. The current system is good. I know, i get alot of kills.[/quote]

I get a lot of kills to when i'm not busy gathering intel for my team that seems to never get used. However, if you can't turn a corner and hit a guy in front of you due to game mechanics. That's a problem.


[quote="PoisonBill""]I find the annoying part being you never know how accurate you will fire, there should be SOMETHING telling you the difference of hitting a coin and a cow from five meters.

I have 'never' fired a firearm, rifle or cannon. But I do expect that you would know when you can fire and hit your target, right now deviation is a guessing game only to be tamed by camping in a corner.

Something like the HAT indicator on the side/middle, as you scope/ironsight? with your rifle should be tested.[/quote]

Wait 1-5 seconds after moving depending on how long you've been moving and then about 1-2 seconds more between shots. That's how PR works.