Militia needs scopes

[ComradeHX]

You could also, like, not engage in a firefight with them.

And while you run like little girls; they have a few seconds to take free shots at you and your squad.

[Navo]

And while you run like little girls; they have a few seconds to take free shots at you and your squad.

No, because as you said you are at the top of a hill and you can take a few steps back and be in cover.

[ComradeHX]

No, because as you said you are at the top of a hill and you can take a few steps back and be in cover.

Unless you are used to disengage at first sight of enemy; it is going to take a few seconds.

[Arnoldio]

Unless you are used to disengage at first sight of enemy; it is going to take a few seconds.

Well yes if youre a noob (not you, just generally speaking), you will get shot, if there are decent players next to you, you leave the enemy squad waiting on the hill, while you retreat, flank and rip them apart with your ironsighted AKs.

While there are cases ob bad luck, its the stupidity that get you and me killed in PR.

[Murphy]

Militia doesn't need scope players just need practice with iron sights and how to play up the weapons strengths and minimize any chances the weaknesses are exploited by the enemy. This is normally a whole rethinking of tactics and overall strategy, which isn't easy for anyone at first.

[ComradeHX]

Militia doesn't need scope players just need practice with iron sights and how to play up the weapons strengths and minimize any chances the weaknesses are exploited by the enemy. This is normally a whole rethinking of tactics and overall strategy, which isn't easy for anyone at first.

There is no weapon strength(just weakness) for militia when, with practice, scoped rifles also are used effectively in close range.

----------------------
For realism's sake; it is very plausible for Militia to have long range optics or even PK-A red dots.

I have source IRL for 1pn29 and PK-A/PK-AV, some POSP, and even 1pn58(big a** soviet nightvision scope for extra badassery). Some are around $400, some $200, and 1pn58 is expensive at ~$900 but it is pretty good performance wise despite being gen1.

If I can get those, so can militia(before anyone mentions cost; militia is fictional, they do not have worries about cost, just availability).

[Murphy]

There is a thread about effectiveness of optics vs ironsights with a lot of great insight into it. Most would agree having an IS weapon is better for close encounters, if you play off of that strength and include the lack of peripheral vision people looking into optics have you will find success easier. There are many situations you have to handle different because you will lose a ranged fight, and its more of a play style issue then anything else really.

[ComradeHX]

I am pretty sure this thread is about militia getting undeserved nerfs when it was already very balanced with militia having worse assets.

And again, militia AAS maps are not insurgency maps.

Asymmetrical balance should not go to that extreme.

[Navo]

I give up now.

[Murphy]

Glancing up at the thread title I do believe this is about optics and not concerning the asset layouts. In that case it is clear that Militias lack of optics is not so much a nerf as a exchanging of strategy.

[ComradeHX]

Glancing up at the thread title I do believe this is about optics and not concerning the asset layouts. In that case it is clear that Militias lack of optics is not so much a nerf as a exchanging of strategy.

That is forcing Militia to play INS on AAS maps.

The asset balance is already forcing Militia to change their strategy; lack of optics is both unrealistic and worthless.

You cannot just look at optics and say "this is balanced because people can use some other strategy" because availability of optics is not 100% of this game.

Also, the bad guys have OPTION of having optics, they can do BOTH instead of like Militia who are forced to only use "strategies" for iron sights unless the squad is packed with a sniper and DM... Going into buildings? Bad guys(I mean the british) go up to APC and request ironsight version of their kit...that is all they need to do.

If you want to give militia no choice of optics on regular kits; then you need to force the bad guys to using ALL optics, if you wanted your "different strategy"...

[Rudd]

Rubbish imo, all the militia maps have specific tactics to make ironsights a strength instead of a weakness, and again different tactics for scope users to be effective (but imo its harder to make the scopes as effective)

E.g.
fools road, stick to forest, get close to the enemy before engaging.
dragonfly, the urban setting has loads of places to move unseen to get in close and destroy the enemy in CQB

that people would prefer-
Army X vs army Y (which is really just army X with a couple of guns that have different recoil properties)
is boring

well equipped army X vs defensive posture army Y that has significant gameplay differences is more interesting

Give me a scope, I behave differently to when I use ironsights. I get just as many kills either way, but my tactics change; and that is were the variation comes in - and that helps keep the game fresh.

Its like on insurgency on a map like karbala:

Theres a load of insurgents on a rooftop on the city edge, the enemy have amassed to the north in the desert. The insurgents are looking at them with binocs, occasionally sending long range ironsight shots at the americans to piss em off. The Americans are sitting in the desert sniping the insurgents with 50cals, scopes etc.

The insurgents go "oh man this sucks, attack us already US cowards"

but they've misunderstood. The US would come into the city, they WOULD ATTACK, if there wasn't a fricking line of moronic insurgents on a rooftop.

Result, the insurgents (unless they are lucky, or have good mortars or whatever) then die because they decided to hold a stupid rooftop, and get all frustrated and start going on about how unbalanced insurgency is.

Same for miltia, "militia should have scopes so they can fight enemies far away from a hilltop position"

no, militia should not have scopes, so that we get some different gameplay, want hilltop fights? Play Jabal or Iron Eagle. I love playing Militia as they are. The only thing the militia need imo is a mobile AT gun (since the fixed AT guns are made useless now since all the players know their locations exactly)

[Navo]

You shouldn't have use Karbala as an example, that map is broken beyond belief.

[ComradeHX]

Its like on insurgency on a map like karbala:

Militia =/= Insurgents and AAS =/= INS.

It is not like anything.

Also, Militia is already underequipped in everything else(worse UAV, even though nobody uses them; worse assets...etc.)
Now with the lack of scope; they cannot even defend properly because the other factions can just snipe them from far away.
Keepheads down? Mortars and grenades(because other side has everyone in Militia suppressed and their infantry can get in close range with THEIR IRONSIGHTS and grenades).
Flank the attackers? That is assuming Attackers do not have anyone watching their back and the ones moving towards the attackers(who are probably sitting there sniping away at Militia defending flags while laughing as mortar rounds land on top of Militia) will have more deviation and is still not at advantage. Not to mention there are vehicles(Militia does not even get scope on RPG, that is like a $70 piece...). Flanking(not going to work well if Militia are the ones getting suppressed from long range) and Ambush is not going to work 100% of time(especially ambush, as proven by real world statistics).

Militia is not always attacking; and even when they do, they can and will encounter enemy squad with people who have Ironsights, AND they have less support because they tend to have worse assets.

Insurgents can get away with not having magnifying optics because they are usually in Cities or mountains with lots of rock as cover, AND they can spawn with IEDs plus no ticket limit. Again, this is not about Militia playing INS maps.

Saying map make ironsights advantageous also does not work. It is not that they MUST use ironsights; it is just that the other side has a CHOICE. If the situation requires optics on everyone; they CAN just go REQUEST for optics-included rifleman kit and change back when moving into close range.
Militia having no optics on rifleman/SL kits means that the other side can choose ALL the available tactics and Militia is FORCED into choosing one tactic that will put them in disadvantage(in addition to asset disadvantage).

[Murphy]

I wonder how I get the idea that you are one of those players who stack blufor because they have all the " cool toys".

[ComradeHX]

I wonder how I get the idea that you are one of those players who stack blufor because they have all the " cool toys".

No, I always switch to anything but Blufor unless server autobalance puts me on Bluefor again.
Scope at range = easy mode. I am not playing PR for easy mode.

[ytman]

Here is Rudd's point

.

Saying map make ironsights advantageous also does not work. It is not that they MUST use ironsights; it is just that the other side has a CHOICE. If the situation requires optics on everyone; they CAN just go REQUEST for optics-included rifleman kit and change back when moving into close range.

Militia having no optics on rifleman/SL kits means that the other side can choose ALL the available tactics and Militia is FORCED into choosing one tactic that will put them in disadvantage(in addition to asset disadvantage).

It went completely over your head.


Okay so I'll give on pass at this.

#1) The Militia is an asymmetrical warfare team. You say worse assets I say less tickets lost (and the best vehicle in game the technical). You say worse weapons I say better weapons considering the maps (better HAT, PPSH, Arty IED, Dragnov).

#2) The militia, and the maps they are featured on, are set to be scenarios of an uneven battlefield where each team has an area they excel in that is opposite the other. The obvious example is Fools Road, the mountains and hills support the Militia and negate any Scoped advantage... those hills also allow for devastating choke points against the Brit Armor. In fact I'd wager a bet that Fools Road is slightly weighted towards the Militia team.

[ShockUnitBlack]

AK-47 > FAL = ironsight L85A2 = AK-74 = AKS-74U > SKS = scoped L85A2 > PPsH > Skorpion (The AK-47 is win, the PPsH is overrated, and a medic can revive people faster than the scoped L85A2 can kill them. The Militia, however, suffer from having to use nigh-useless weapons like the Skorpion and SKS)

SVD > L86A2 (neither are particularly good weapons)

Scoped Minimi > PKM = M60 = Ironsight Minimi (all three are lethal at close ranges but I won't deny the effectiveness of a scoped SAW in comparison to an unscoped one)

RPG-7 Tandem > SRAW (on paper the SRAW is better, but the RPG-7 is more effective on the maps it's used on - Fool's Road being the possible exception)

Notes: These ratings reflect the maps these weapons are used on, which are condusive to CQB. If the Militia were facing off against the British on Kashan, then the SRAW and scoped L85A2 would become significantly more effective).

[ExNusquam]

If the Militia need scopes so badly, why is Fools Road one of the most balanced maps?

However... maybe it's just my experience... but this is one map that most closely meets the 50/50 balance we strive for. Meaning that I've seen the Brits win about half of the time and I've seen Militia win half of the time, so I'm not sure it really needs more DEV time and energy whereas other maps still do.

No one complains about Assad Khal, where Hamas has no scopes, and faces off against the IDF, who also has arguably better weapons in the form of the CTAR. Time after time, I've seen Hamas win on that map by using their techies well and just being better at tactics overall.

It's because if the Militia use unconventional tactics (ambushes and stuff) they can absolutely devastate the any BLUFOR they face. The PPSH and AK have a significant advantage in CQB, so it's up to the Militia to use that advantage to win. Coupled with the fact that they get the Arty IED and the Spandrel, both of which are devastating in an ambush, and if used effectively, can rid the BLUFOR of any armor advantage rather quickly.

[ytman]

Ambushes aren't unconventional ^^.


Thats my nitpick of the day.