[R-DEV]dbzao's Public Gameplay Test #3

[Kain888]

Why is everyone complaining about the rally, I remember when it would stay there until it was knifed.

That's the main reason people complain, they remember gameplay with RP. ;]

[Kevokpo]

dbzao;1759451']

Overall gameplay changes

• Rally Points expire after 15 min or when overrun by the enemy (radius of 100m around it).

Maybe the radius should be increased a little more maybe 150 or 200m, just for me, maybe its too much, don't know really

the rest of your ideas, in my opinion are excellent, and it would change today's gameplay and become a little more difficult and fun

keep it up!

[Arnoldio]

Maybe the radius should be increased a little more maybe 150 or 200m, just for me, maybe its too much, don't know really

the rest of your ideas, in my opinion are excellent, and it would change today's gameplay and become a little more difficult and fun

keep it up!

No, radius shouldnt be increased, because wif you use rally as its supposed to, not a portable FOB, you cant set it if enemies are in that radius.

[Kevokpo]

No, radius shouldnt be increased, because wif you use rally as its supposed to, not a portable FOB, you cant set it if enemies are in that radius.

then you have to fall back, I have doubts too thats why I put: "Maybe the radius should be increased a little more maybe 150 or 200m, just for me, maybe its too much, don't know really"

[SGT.Ice]

I'm not really a fan of the current radius as is. It seems too many times there is no one even close by but you still can't place it. I can be on Fallujah in practically the open and sha-bam!

[Mats391]

I'm not really a fan of the current radius as is. It seems too many times there is no one even close by but you still can't place it. I can be on Fallujah in practically the open and sha-bam!

this is why i dont like the current system, you can use RPs as small radar. imo RP should always go on cooldown even if you werent able to place it

[Arnoldio]

then you have to fall back, I have doubts too thats why I put: "Maybe the radius should be increased a little more maybe 150 or 200m, just for me, maybe its too much, don't know really"

I know, but falling back 200m is the nearest fob, for most of the maps, wich are 2km. So, very little point in rallies if it would be so big.

[Sold.Lagares]

Hi mates! A question from SPNF TEAM (spanish forces group)

we would like to know if this changes will be applied again on any server and when exaclty.

Thanks in advance mate, great job! we are looking foward to play insurgency so.

[sr.bambino]

I am under the impression that in DB's mod we can't use any enemy kits. I haven't tried while playing on a DB-enabled server, but I have been hearing other players ask why they can't pick up enemy rifleman kits.

If this is true... I think you are really going in the wrong direction w/ this.
It's more realistic for a soldier to pick up an enemy kit if he is out of ammo, kinda ridiculous to prohibit that no? I can understand the prohibition of picking up enemy HATs, Engineer, & AA kits, but everything else is simple enough for a soldier unfamiliar w/ the equipment to be able to use it.

Perhaps an accuracy penalty should be enforced when using an enemy kit, but why prohibit the use of all enemy kits?

[Mineral]

https://www.realitymod.com/forum/f10-pr ... t-3-a.html

[sr.bambino]

Thanks Mineral.

Yeah I don't see the realism in prohibiting the use of all enemy kits. I feel as if I, an untrained civilian, could pickup an AT-4 and fire it. It's a tube w/ an arrow that says "point this way" and a red button that just happens to fire a rocket...

[Apo]

I think the point of it is, that your own team team has to run logistics to provide your squad with ammo with emphasis on AT&Grenades. To be honest i am not playing that much atm, i haven't tested that out and how it works ingame so i won't comment on how it is good or not, but please keep in mind this is only testing out different concepts so please give it a chance atleast.

[Binary]

I completely disagree with this idea.

I understand why you prevent players from picking up enemy Limited Kits. But do not expand this to all kits! If you do, you'll severely limit the survive ability of players.

If I'm a Brit on Basrah and my SA80 is down to Zero in a firefight, then why should I be penalized for taking an enemy AK to defend myself?

No, No, No. Bad Idea. Let me take my enemies gun and use it against him!

[Jolly]

I think rifleman can be picked and used by each side.
But Insurgents use AT4 or others limited kits and resupply it still makes nosense.

db, I suggest rifleman kit pickable again for test and then see what else can be used by each side.
sometimes, when you out of ammo, the only way you can defend yourself is to use enemy's weapons.

[Pronck]

BLUFOR Whores stop whining that the AT4 shouldn't be used by the insurgents, but it is your fault if they get one so don't punish them! Everything is google-able so don't say that they don't know how to use it, they know how to! Since the beginning of insurgency the BLUFOR got constant updates in their favour, yes we got an SPG techies and mortars now, but the BLUFOR got more APCs, thougher choppers, 1337 weapons, kits that can't be used by the insurgents, intel that is way too accurate and not to forget a massive amount of tickets. What do we have? Some garbage trucks, clown cars and an AK47. And NOW when we need changes that make it more fun for the insurgents and more balanced the odds are HUGE that it will turn out in a BLUFOR ONLY FEST.

[Anderson29]

picking up enemy kits shouldn't be allowed simply because of the in-game glitch of taking the rifle, chest rig/kit and headdress/helmet. if it was just the weapon and the mag in the weapon...then cool, im down with that. but in real life if a soldier were out of ammo and all alone, yes he would pick up a enemy rifle but he would return to friendly lines rearm and live to fight another day....not continue fighting to get an awesome k/d ratio before he goes and meets his maker/spaghetti dragon.

anyways there is a way around the above scenario if no picking up enemy kits is allowed. find enemy rifle man kit, throw ammo bag down, get your kit back, stand on or near enemy ammo back, win

[IrnBrutality]

picking up enemy kits shouldn't be allowed simply because of the in-game glitch of taking the rifle, chest rig/kit and headdress/helmet.

This has always been the thing that annoys me. It's fine to be able to pick up the kit but wearing the headdress complicates things in a bad way especially in games where the 2 teams have such similar uniforms already and on servers that allow more than 64 players it becomes far too easy to team kill when you've just been killed because you took so long to i.d an enemy wearing friendly kit (which can be a matter of milliseconds) then you re-spawn and come across a friendly with no name marker and start trying to blow him away leading to a few moments of feeling stupid. I've been killed and team killed so many times this way because I hesitated or even went into my map to check nearby friendly troop locations. I know it's realistically possible and adds to the battle confusion that can make for some interesting moments but irl what bluefor soldier would swap a ballistics helmet for a turban?

I also have a slight problem with the accuracy penalty, I have lost so many fire fights where I've come across a player and stopped and dropped to a crouch and started firing but my first round landed about a foot away in front of me then god knows where the rest went but the enemy player has kept moving towards me without stopping and has managed to fire one shot and kill me instantly. This is a small annoyance though that I can grudgingly accept because it has saved me once or twice too but not often enough to make things balanced.

Also I think 15 mins is a bit too long for RP's it could be maybe just a few mins longer but to be honest I've never considered the way it already is to be a problem.

[40mmrain]

Alright I'm going to make a bit of a post here, to try and give some intensive feedback on the DB mod that has been running on CIA for over a week now non-stop. The mod's object, quite clearly is to re-balance certain aspects of the game. Each point addresses a problem in PR, and does it's best to fix it. I'll give my opinion, and justify it on why this change has failed to fix a problem, has, or has created a new one.

Rally point time extended to fifteen minutes

This is a repurpose of the rally point. Back in the days of battlefield 2, or rather, early PR spawning on points, and squad leaders was possible. The rally point is essentially, the pseudo squad lead spawn. The point is, if you die on attack, there's a bit of a plan b, and also, it helps squads consolidate. I think the longer rally accomplishes this. Uh, it seems to make assaulting the enemy easier, but it causes heavier ticket loss, so it doesnt seem to be too imbalanced. Though, it does feel too long some times. 10 minutes I suggest

Heavy AT kits per team decreased from 2 to 1.
Light AT kits per team increased from 3 to 5.
TOW emplacements per team increased from 2 to 3.

uh, so, this is basically noticing that heavy anti tank weapons are simply, OP. This change is astounding to me. I have found armour pieces to be much more effective now. It was speculated that 5 light anti tank weapons would make APC driving impossible, but this is not the case by any means, LAT kits are pure defense last resort, unlike the HAT kit. This has given all armoured vehicles a much stronger, more important role in the battle, like it ought to. With this change armour has become INCREDIBLY important, on most maps now.
Formerly, armour had a way smaller effect on the game's outcome. Even if your armour vehicles failed miserably, infantry could totally handle their own with two HAT, not with one this is not the case. I like this change, very, very much, I support it for official release.

Insurgents can request the Officer kit at caches and hideouts.

this is a very good change, and it use it often. Insurgents need all the help they can get, really, just a logical change, should be implemented officially.

UAV doesn't need to refuel and takes 15 seconds to relocate.

The UAV was basically worthless before this change, this has fixed that. Uh, as far as I can tell the numbers are arbitrary, and further testing may need to take place, sometimes the UAV is a little too useful, especially on INS. I plan to make a big *** post about ins in the future, so ill leave it at that.

Players cannot use any enemy kit.

SO previously enemies could operate your Light AT weapons, use your garb, and rifles. This is unrealistic, and creates some silly conundrums. PEople discouraging using LAT weapons in fear of the enemy taking them is stupid. Fearing the enemy will recover your C4, run it to their main and somehow have unlimited C4 there is silly. The faster blackening, and zero kit usage is a good change. Talib wearing american body armour, helmets, and using an AT4 is fucking stupid.

Number of caches decreased from 7 to 4.

This coincides with no unknown to keep games from reaching 10 hours long, the number itself works on some maps, and doesnt on some. However, this itself is the fault of the map, and the map only. There is no solution without bad maps being fixed, so this number is fine. I fear, it MAY be too low, and here is why. On INS there are easy caches, good caches and hard caches. EAsy caches are close to main, in the open, APC bait, or whatever. Good caches are the ones in fair, defensible, but still destroyable spots. These are the inner city ramiel, the compounds in kokan, the village in lashkar. Hard caches are the impossible ones, the caches deep underground in complex caves of lashkar, and korengal. Ideally a map has only good caches, however a balance of good, hard, and easy can work. If the number count is too low, however, what can happen is that if one or two of the caches fall on a hard, or two fall on an easy, it completely ruins the round. I feel as if the number 4 doesnt cause this problem, however anything lower would certainly. In this case it is the fault of the maps MOSTLY, however, 5 may help balance out some of the worse maps.

Only one cache available at a time.

I liked the idea of the unknown. It's cool, clearing room to room, finding that cache, it's kinda like real counter insurgency, but it really didnt work that well. Spawning on the unknowns caused problems sometimes, ghosting was an issue, there were lots of issues about the unknown cache ill just say that. REmoving it does make the game mode less unique, certainly, but I think it's necessary. It makes the exercise of the intelligence somewhat less pointful, and devalues civis, but it's necessary.

decreased coalition forces tickets

ok, so this one needs little comment. Less caches, less tickets, makes sense. Numbers seem to be ok. I'll summarize the effects of the insurgency chances. What DB has done in an attempt to fix problems has done so, but has created new ones. I'm going to try and help fix these new problems, by trying to create the least amount of problems as possible.

1) Fixing unknowns issues
Problems solved: Ghosting, people not respecting the unknown-ness of the unknown, luck for blufor
Problems created: Almost none, but just one. The lack of an unknown has simply devalued intelligence. Teams will defend unknowns like knowns because they know it will be known soon, they dont wish to risk losing the cache, setting up defense early is smart. Also with UAV changes unknowns are way easier to find. With no unknowns, and knowns, then the intel system is worthless. This makes the civi worthless, and lets opfor not care about deaths in any regard. Here is what I suggest. If the current cache is known, and it is defended until 100 intel is gained by blufor (this does happen sometimes), then a new known spawns. IT's at least something.

2) Fixing imbalances in ticket numbers vs. caches. This one is big.
Problems solved: Some, but not all maps favoured blufor, these maps have been balanced
Caused problems: This does a good job at helping maps like Basrah, karbala, and fallujah. Maps that blufor totally dominate, without question and 400-0 scores were very common. However, where it fixes some, it ruins others. Korengal, lashkar, dragon fly, and some others that were either balanced, or favoured insurgents now, are imbalanced, or made to be even worse.

The thing is, we can tweak cache settings are we want, it will always fix some, and break others. Give americans 1000 tickets? Great, not some of those impossible lashkar caches may not break the game, but 800-0 on karbala would be common. Give the americans 300 tickets? Great now karbala matches are close, but americans are lucky to get two against taliban on korengal. The solution lies in mapping. Yes, mapping. Mapping comes in two flavours of balance. Terrain, and assets. Maps that favour ins too much, the blufor should simply get more assets, or the map needs a redesign. Maps that favour blufor too much should have assets removed, or they need a redesign. The bottoms line is: balance in insurgency lies almost solely in the hands of the mapper, if, inherently the number of tickets, and caches are fair, and THEY WILL BE ONCE WE HAVE ALL MAPS TO A SAME STANDARD OF BALANCE, they need no change, only the maps do. With good maps insurgency is perfect with these changes, or at least as close to it as it can get. Any fix we make will not fix anything at this point, and maps are the key.

[Anderson29]

i have to say that you hit the nail right on the head man. very good feedback and very constructive.

[Elvin]

Players cannot use any enemy kit.

When I first started playing PR in insurgency maps I thought to myself: Hmm these insurgents are having a pretty hard time against fully armed army with armour and whatnot, at least they can pickup superior equip to even the odds. I always thought of insurgents picking up enemy kits as a good gameplay element. Who cares that they can pickup a LAT kit? HE DESERVES that kit anyways. And it's not like he's gonna run with it for a whole game.