Insurgency needs a quick fix ASAP!

[Pronck]

if you ask me you only need to remove Iraqi Insurgents and make them all , Taliban, Hamas, Militia instead of Iraqi insurgents with no kits to request...

then you guys gonna say the Insurgents are gonna be 2 powerfull.... well you can give the Bluefor some extra or better vehicles...

it could fix the boring insurgency rounds...

for a sample.. Fallujah is a nice map... but would it not be better with bigger firefights and bigger guns... for both sides ? especialy for the Iraqi insurgents..

So to make it clear, the problem in your eyes is that the BLUFOR is afraid that the INS has too much firepower? It sound familiar to me, since some of the BLUFOR fans already started to whine when a SPG shot at them from 10ft away.....no hate on the BLUFOR fans, but it seems a lot of dev's and players only want to give the BLUFOR lots of toys and nothing to the INS for compensation.

[Bringerof_D]

You can't properly defense 2 caches with teams of 32 people, while the BLUFOR has so much firepower and the opportunity to attack. And with 16 people at each cache or less it is even easier to start C4 Bitching for the BLUFOR. Maybe it is something to make the server having a standard of 50vs50? Or what about giving the INS a bigger diversity of weapons to compensate the fact that we have to defend 2 caches with each having numerous holes in the defensive lines.

oh yeah there are things to fix. i was simply pointing out that the fact that blufor now do more searching rather than bum rushing the known is a good thing

[MertSahin]

So to make it clear, the problem in your eyes is that the BLUFOR is afraid that the INS has too much firepower? It sound familiar to me, since some of the BLUFOR fans already started to whine when a SPG shot at them from 10ft away.....no hate on the BLUFOR fans, but it seems a lot of dev's and players only want to give the BLUFOR lots of toys and nothing to the INS for compensation.

nahh my real problem is, Iraqi insurgent being is so f*cking boring.. oke sometimes you can have fun.... and i know you can make a lot of kills... but there is not that much Squadplay as on the bluefor side... and i think thats all because of you can not request a medic kit with an ak47/aks or some different kits...

people in a squad on Iraqi insurgent side mostly pickup a random rifleman kit if not they are waiting at main for some special kits...

if those guys could join a squad with a medic and REQUEST the same kits instead of waiting at main untill it spawns... i think we would see more action then...

and i am not afraid that the Insurgency is gonna be to strong... i just know that people are gonna whine about it when Insurgency gets more special kits...

i am pretty sure the DEV's can give Iraqi insurgenst some real requestable weapons and If needed the bluefor some extra sh*t and i dont know what kind... just a suggestion

[Pronck]

So the Iraqi Insurgents should be able to have some kind of medic kit? Like an SKS or Uzi with 5 epipens and medicbag with 3 patches like they have stolen it. Sounds interesting to me. But I think that if they also make some kind of AR kit that it will be too much for the INS. So the small weapon balance should be ajusted?

By the way are the Dev's even reading this?

[MertSahin]

i am not talking about the medic kit only just saying Iraqi insurgents regular with all kits like grenadier/lat/lmg/marksman whatever each faction has one from...

think about fallujah with 2 Iraqi Insurgents squad defending a cache on a rooftop and each squad has his own marksman/grenadier to fire back to that m249 and al scoped shizzle and like every squad has his own light anti tank personel... would be better for Insurgency team and the teamplay of Iraqi Insurgent faction i think.. atleast it would be more fun

and the Insurgents gonna be a bit stronger thats right but you always can equalize that

[SGT.Ice]

I think that the changes dbzao made are in the good direction

Minus not being able to use ANY enemy kits yes it's a pretty interesting way of going about thing's.

i am not talking about the medic kit only just saying Iraqi insurgents regular with all kits like grenadier/lat/lmg/marksman whatever each faction has one from...

think about fallujah with 2 Iraqi Insurgents squad defending a cache on a rooftop and each squad has his own marksman/grenadier to fire back to that m249 and al scoped shizzle and like every squad has his own light anti tank personel... would be better for Insurgency team and the teamplay of Iraqi Insurgent faction i think.. atleast it would be more fun

and the Insurgents gonna be a bit stronger thats right but you always can equalize that

So... break balance.... !?!?!?!? profit?

If they all 9 squads got an RPG that would be stupidity on it's own. The other day I was on a cache outside US main in A6 on Fallujah where my team had atleast 9+ RPG's in 1 building. US forces were not able to get within 150M+. 9 squads, 9 RPG's + cache RPGs = whole team of RPGs. In the 128 or 256 layers maybe.

[Trooper909]

So to make it clear, the problem in your eyes is that the BLUFOR is afraid that the INS has too much firepower? It sound familiar to me, since some of the BLUFOR fans already started to whine when a SPG shot at them from 10ft away.....no hate on the BLUFOR fans, but it seems a lot of dev's and players only want to give the BLUFOR lots of toys and nothing to the INS for compensation.

Been the same from day one.
If insurgents have anything effective it either gets nerfed to uselessness or deleted due to major forum whinage.

Dem insurgents and der fire powa.

[English_infidel]

Should remove cache markers altogether. Intel should come from team comms, like enemy movements or spotted cache weapons
agreed! this should be tested.

excellent idea jamaican.

this would cause blufor to do patrols or what we use to call when i was in iraq..."ied finding missions" then report a tic (troops in contact) and bring the reinforcements. it could work.

I think you pair just hit the nail on the head.

[BloodyDeed]

By the way are the Dev's even reading this?

We are reading each suggestion thoroughly. If we do not answer that doesnt mean we are not interested or have not seen it.

But I don't think no markers will work.
While it might be fine on a public server it would make it unplayable for an organized event (or similar).
As Insurgent you could just stay away from the caches giving no information to the bluefor about the location.

[Joker86]

I am really a new member, so please don't beat me too hard if my suggestion doesn't help at all.

After what I understood, people have a problem with the BLUEFOR looking for the unknown stash, instead of attacking the known, which usually is much better protected and thus lowering the amount of actual firefights, right?

But on the other hand it's a central element of the gamemode to have "variable" objectives.

Having only one known stash would be very plain, as it would lead to a simple camp'n'rush fest, which isn't that interesting.

On the other hand two known stashes would be undefendable for the insurgents, due to the higher firepower of the BLUEFOR and being bound to divide their forces between the stashes, whereas the BLUEFOR can attack a single location with all players. Plus they have the higher firepower.

So we actually need to stick to one known and one unknown stash, because it is the best compromise.

I think the core of the problem lies in the fact that unknown cashes usually are not protected by insurgents, which in the first place makes looking for the unkown tempting. If you knew that unknown would be defended, too, you wouldn't search it that likely, because you would need a bigger force to destroy it, reducing the chance of "stealth"-stash-destructions.

My idea would be:

- Implement a lot more possible stash locations. The amount needs to get raised significantly. This already lowers the motivation to search the unknown.

- Replace the unknown stash with a "roughly located" stash, which lies randomly in an area of 9 map squares (the "big" ones, like A1 and G4), marked on the map. This is meant to motivate insurgents to defend the second stash as well, because they know the enemy knows roughly where it is. (Every stash gets a random number from 1 to 9, which represents its location within the marked squares according to the keypad. A stash with number 3 would be in the south eastern corner of the square, while a stash with number 5 would be in the center)


In theory this should lead to the main fight being around the located stash, while there should be a second, smaller fight around the roughly located one. The motivation to run around other places on the map is lowered. BLUEFOR could decide to shift the main focus to the roughly located stash, but the fact that you can't find it that easily should give the insurgents enough time to shift their defense accordingly, which would lead to a tactical gameplay that should actually be desired.

[nozzzle]

The idea of unknowns is silly, it promotes an incredibly boring style of gameplay for both sides (spending half a round searching the map whilst the other team sits bored on the known). It is also incredibly frustrating for insurgents as there is very little they can do to stop unknowns dieing, especially when they spawn in obvious places. Yes insurgents can defend the unknown, however this hardly ever happens and isn't that effective. They have a choice between hiding on the unknown for god knows how long not doing anything vs actually playing the game doing other things on the map.

For me the simplest solution already mentioned in this thread would be the best, just remove unknown caches. When enough intel points have been collected and there is currently only one known, simply just spawn a second known. This basically removes ghosting, idiots spawning on unknowns and I feel would make insurgency much more fun and balanced for both sides.

[Joker86]

Wouldn't two knowns be practically undefendable for the insurgents?

[Pronck]

Wouldn't two knowns be practically undefendable for the insurgents?

Yes, that is why I suggested instead of 32 vs 32 matches of 50 vs 50. Because you get less overwhelmed when you have more people near a cache even though the numbers could be 2:1 for the BLUFOR, you should be able to get a more solid line with 25 people at each cache.

So to line up my suggestions or the ones I mostly agreed with. Maybe they should also be implemented at the Taliban maps and other Insurgent like factions.

-Give the Insurgents a more varierity of weapons, look at the community modellers for possible models

-Make the server standards 50vs50 and adjust the assets of the map to it.

-Remove the unkown and instead make a cache area containing multiple caches in larger areas.

- Give the BLUFOR no tickets bonus if you keep the unknowns, when they destroy the unknowns and decrease the INS ticket loss from 10 to 5.

- When there are 2 known caches make a priority cache and a secondary cache, where the priority cache gives a higher tickets bonus.

- Decrease the amount of starting tickets on several maps.

- On maps like Karbala and Al Basrah give the compounds outside of the city basements or even small tunnels to make it more difficult to destroy caches.

- Decrease C4 blast damage against caches, although it should still be realistic.

- Allow Insurgent to request the basic kits, and change their request menu with other names.

- Give the insurgents the possibility to make some kind of roadblocks like suggested many times before

[SnipeHunt]

Dbzao ran some tests with one cache only... Was proper stuff.

Quick fix is simple - Make caches spawn when they are known and not when unknown, but the spawnpoint is there as now.

I like this idea. seems like a good solution!

[badmojo420]

I say go back to where both teams had an overwhelming number of objectives(caches) to deal with, that way it doesn't get bogged down at one or two caches but rather splits up the combat into many smaller firefights.

Screw the insurgents who can't defend unknowns.

[Pronck]

I say go back to where both teams had an overwhelming number of objectives(caches) to deal with, that way it doesn't get bogged down at one or two caches but rather splits up the combat into many smaller firefights.

Screw the insurgents who can't defend unknowns.

What about screwing the BLUFOR for once? I think to many BLUFOR whores are having their heads up the Dev's ***.

[badmojo420]

Funny, because I've always favored opfor in insurgency.

My comment was.. screw the insurgents who can't defend unknowns. Meaning we shouldn't be changing the game to accommodate players who can't defend one unknown.

When I started playing PR around 0.7 we had what? maybe 10 caches spawned at the start of the round, a few were known, the action was usually map wide, pushing back the enemy at all times, front lines, etc. As insurgent there was a feeling that you owned the city, and as blufor you felt like the city was crawling with hajis.

Then due to the networkable object numbers being too high(which caused crashing), they lowered the spawned caches and added insurgent fobs. It seemed like an innocent bug fix along with new stuff for the insurgents. Shovels for everyone!

But, we're still suffering the consequences to this day. INS lost the majority of their pre-built spawns so players were usually left spawning at the few unknown caches or main. You can't blame the blufor for seeing these buildings of RPG wielding insurgents and going in to remove the cache. It's a smart move for them to attack the less defended objective.

The community tried to remedy this problem itself, "DON'T SPAWN ON UNKNOWN CACHE YOU IDIOTS!!" was spammed constantly. And for a while it worked. People would avoid the unknowns or maintain a low profile when there. The action was centered around the known cache for the most part, hideouts were built to give nobody an excuse for not defending the known.

And then some blufor players decided to use the undefended unknowns to their advantage. The started searching places they've seen caches in past games, knowing INS put too much faith in the purple marker. People complained constantly about this in-game and on the forums. Either the blufor were ghosting, or the unknowns shouldn't be spawnable/visible/destroyable, or the caches shouldn't spawn close together for multiple reasons. Or even the BF2 MOTD banner noobs were giving away all the unknowns. Did I forget any?

So more changes were made, they created a system to prevent caches spawning together, which led to people exploiting the system to locate unknowns. Also, they reduced the number of caches to win and shuffled around some tickets. Which ultimately favored the blufor, giving them more tickets per cache than previously. And, finally we've now gone down to a two cache system, and with db's tests looks like we might be going to one.

I have no doubts removing all but one cache will mean easier defense for the insurgents. And it will put an end to unknown defensive failures.... aka ghosting/hunting/exploting.

But, it's so far away from the feeling I got when playing the original insurgency game mode. That feeling of owning the city just doesn't happen when you have to fight for every inch of it first. And on the flip side, that feeling of a city alive with danger isn't really there when 90% of the danger is confined to a fraction of the map at a time.

TLDR? Everyone is looking to fix insurgency, when we should be looking back at what broke it and revert some of those specific changes.

[Pronck]

Maybe is some kind of AAS possible? Called uprising, you have for example 15 objectives, and one will be spawnable for the INS, the BLUFOR will get intel on the uprising in 5 minutes and then they should recap the flag. And since this can only be done by having a numerous advantage, they must clear the area. And after 10 flags for example the uprising is stopped. And at each district you have caches, they can be destroyed but they won't give a ticket bonus, they are only there to rearm and for weapon spawns. This could give the original INS feeling back? With spawnpoints at each flag you can make sure you own the whole city, but the objective is to hold the flag as long as possible. And another option is that after a certain amount of tickets loss for the BLUFOR, the insurgents get another district, so the BLUFOR has 2 districts to capture.

I will explain it later in a better way.

[Sgt. Mahi]

What about screwing the BLUFOR for once? I think to many BLUFOR whores are having their heads up the Dev's ***.

Amen! The man preaches the truth... Nah but really, it's sad to see the insurgency mode falling to pieces because so many only play BLUFOR. I would love to see insurgents get some of their "power" back. Back in the days where we had proper IED's and molotovs... Now that was fun for both sides. Admitted the IED's back then where a bit overpowered but the amount of nerfing it went through is just ridiculous.

Before you say anything against that, I will remind you that BLUFOR were perfectly capable of winning the rounds back then. BLUFOR players cries to much. ... "Oh the molotovs are bugged because they can burn through vehicles, you say?"... "Well don't park your damn CROW humwee 5 ft. from a building if you know the area is hostile, fool!"

Seriously if BLUFOR actually worked together in insurgency, it wouldn't had been necessary to nerf insurgents that much. But EVERYONE wants to be able to steam roll insurgents apparently.

[Web_cole]

Funny, because I've always favored opfor in insurgency.

My comment was.. screw the insurgents who can't defend unknowns. Meaning we shouldn't be changing the game to accommodate players who can't defend one unknown.

Its patently dishonest to suggest that Insurgents "can't defend unknown caches", up until now a large part of the meta game for Insurgency has been "don't defend unknown caches because it gives them away" to the extent that there are server rules about not spawning on unknowns and people will ***** at you for doing so. That is not the same thing as being unable or unwilling.

Wouldn't two knowns be practically undefendable for the insurgents?

Its unrealistic to expect an (32 man) Insurgent team to defend two caches at all times like it is now, but if the 2nd cache only spawns on the map after a certain point that might not be so bad. Ins should expect to lose caches tbh, but that needn't mean they can't win. It just depends how the gameplay systems operate.