Player decline?

[Michael_Denmark]

I wonder if ARMA III becomes a hit game graphicly and with gameplay what will happen to PR? I guess it will unfortunately die out.

Even if ARMA III does become a hit, I hope it will not make PR die out, or just as bad, affect the design-direction PR is already locked onto.

To me, both ARMA and PR are ONE. Not two.

[Joker86]

I got an idea last night while taking a dump, and I hope the result of the idea differs from the other result I produced last night:

It's not the ultimative solution to the player decline, but it adresses at least a part of it. It's the relatively high percentage of people on the server who are NOT willing to contribute something to the team, use mumble, obey squad leaders or take any kit they are told to, instead of only the kit they want, which in most cases is the sniper kit.

To be able to distinguish the "decent" PR players on the server you could introduce the usage of an "indipendant" name tag, similar to the clan tag. Something like "+TP+" at the end of the name, standing for "team player". The advantage of such a thing is, that you don't need to be in a clan to use it, and yet you can signalise you are willing to play PR properly.

That way you can even create "TP INF" squads. Per definition you already know it's an improved version of the "MUMBLE INF" squad.

Now what stops those CoD kids of using the tag, too?

First of all, you need a few rules of conduct if you want to put on the TP tag. One of them is similar to the Fight Club rules #1 and #2: You do not talk about TP tag. Do not tell people what it stands for. Instead of this, the community of TP players outfits you with a universal answer you can give whenever you are asked: look into the forum!

This is the first barrier, I would say. That way you can already sort out people who are unwilling to read some text or to sign into the forum.

The next thing to sort out players is the TP topic. That's the topic where people are recruited. The text needs to be written carefully, to on one hand attract the right people, but on the other hand to deter the wrong people. So you need sentences like "do not put on the TP tag if you are not willing to always play in a team with the others. If you put it on, you will be expected to participate as a squad member, listen to the squad leader, and other TP players will have certain expectations towards you. If you don't fulfill them, you can very well be removed from the squad or even the server, when using the TP tag unjustifiedly."

I guess this should pretty much stop those "I play the game how I want to, why should I listen to someone I don't know? I am intelligent myself, I don't need someone to tell me what to do"-people from putting the tag on.

Even for clans the tag is useful, because it can be used to tell if a clan wants to stick with one's kind or is willing to accept "foreign" members in the squad.

It's just a really basic idea, and I don't know if you guys approve it, as we surely agree it won't be a 100% safe method to recognize the proper people, but sure as hell it will help. Especially when the TP squads get their reputation of being "boring", which will definitely happen among the CoD kids.

[SGT.Ice]

The whole "Team player" tags do little to nothing/make no difference. Not everyone reads the forums all the time either. I didn't start getting on the forums till 3-4 years into PR.

If there is a problem with someone in a squad it is the squad leaders obligation to remove them/continue on with the game.

The members are there to fulfill the overall plan, the squad leaders to implement & commander to design. Team player tags solve nothing.

There is a lack of one person directing the team/people wanting to follow.

PR has shifted from being entrenched in team play/cohesive culture to a watered down every man for himself culture.

Rarely do you get communication or even acknowledged by other SL's/Team members when you try to pass/gather information. The problem in itself is the PR community, not the game, not the kits.

[Michael_Denmark]

There is a lack of one person directing the team/people wanting to follow.

PR has shifted from being entrenched in team play/cohesive culture to a watered down every man for himself culture.

That is why a tournament could once again help the community, cause the tourney simply produce the type of player the public community need. Produced in a useful quantity on all levels of play; private, nco, sl and co. Not to mention the developer material a tournament also create.

Then again. It is as minimum necessary to have someone who likes the responsibility managing the tournament in a mature way. Its also a huge amount of work every week.

I haven't played the game for quite a while, but I have tried to follow the game through the different patches, by watching the increasing amount of battle videos on tube. From that perspective-only, it at least looks like big games are in fact quite well organised and that people like to play them.

[KiloJules]

there was a tournament for which I personally had very high hopes.

What should I say...it failed?!...I mean not only that it stopped, I mean the reasons or that.

People not prepared properly, missing ability to not teamkill that much while you wait for the game to start so that a full squad looses interest and leaves shortly before the match begins, people not showing up on time, you name it.

I can not really offer any solutions other than:

Keep up the spirit while you play, in your squad, between the SLs and try to reach out to as many people as possible.

And on a side note: A player decline is nothing bad per se imo...depends on who is leaving, staying, new-coming, etc.

[Beav]

Why not make it a decision for the server admin? Give them the choice whether to enable it or not. Just a thought.

[SGT.Ice]

That is why a tournament could once again help the community, cause the tourney simply produce the type of player the public community need. Produced in a useful quantity on all levels of play; private, nco, sl and co. Not to mention the developer material a tournament also create.

Then again. It is as minimum necessary to have someone who likes the responsibility managing the tournament in a mature way. Its also a huge amount of work every week.

I haven't played the game for quite a while, but I have tried to follow the game through the different patches, by watching the increasing amount of battle videos on tube. From that perspective-only, it at least looks like big games are in fact quite well organised and that people like to play them.

The tournament makes 0 difference. Nor did it ever really. It's not going to change till people decide they want the old PR culture back.

No server admin is going to tell people to put on team player tags. That's the whole point of clans, which most are run by. That idea was tried atleast twice on a large scale before and failed every time. There is no need for a tag just a need for people to bring the culture of PR back that was once so strong in the community that when I started to play actively in 0.7 I thought I was dreaming.

[Orford]

Any one want to say "I told you so" since servers started to enforce mumble. I did say it is elitest and shuts out alot of players who either dont want another VOIP or just dont like having to install more stuff just to play a game.

The more hurdles you put up in front of players the fewer of them you have at the end.

I dont want another Mumble is great thread, I know that, im just saying stop putting things in the way of people wanting to play the game. Let them come on your servers play and find out what mumble is, rather than being kicked for not having it and them leaving thinking "what a bunch of dicks im not coming back to this game."

Other things I have noticed, game publishers are spreading out the titles these days. Given the price and how players get hooked on a game. You Had COD SF, BF3, Diablo 3 and other all coming out one after each other. Players are now caucght in that cycle. Games sales start to drop and players decline so the publisher knocks out the next title to cacth the most consumers. On top of all that you have the DayZ phnomenon.
PR needs to keep evolving its hard to put all that effort in and have a new addon not do so well, look at PR:V. PR:ArmA2. Maps that arnt as populare as they were hoped to be. I guess it can be a real kick in the balls to put all that effort in, then have some keyboard punk call it shite on a forum.
I would say for PR maps, vehicals, sounds should be the area to improve. 128 players isnt for me and do think its long term sustanable for the server providers.

[Brainlaag]

The more hurdles you put up in front of players the fewer of them you have at the end.

I dont want another Mumble is great thread, I know that, im just saying stop putting things in the way of people wanting to play the game. Let them come on your servers play and find out what mumble is, rather than being kicked for not having it and them leaving thinking "what a bunch of dicks im not coming back to this game."

Do you really want that kind of players in your community? Do you want to have people around you refusing certain rules and guidelines just for the sake of it, paying no attention to anybody but themselves?

I'm not into forcing rules upon players that can't follow them for whatever reasons (take Mumble as example), someone can't run it because of a weird configuration on his PC, fine I won't enforce it and push him out of the line just because hes unlucky in his current situation. However if somebody tells me clearly in my face this rule sucks/Mumble sucks/ etc. just because he personally dislikes it, although it has proven to improve gameplay, than it is a pleasure for me to throw him out of the server and the whole community if necessary.

Stubborn behavior was never good and it ever will be, being open to new alternatives it's what it is all about. Not only in terms of the game itself but also for new communities, try something else, see if anything changed, if you can change it. I understand the sorrow of many TG regulars for the loss of their server but instead of quitting PR, they should just find a new server. I know, there is no 2nd TG and probably no other will reach it's quality but as said, the playerbase made TG TG, not the rules, not the admins, not the server hardware.

This constant isolation and x vs y comparisons are getting on my balls.

[LK1]

Do you really want that kind of players in your community? Do you want to have people around you refusing certain rules and guidelines just for the sake of it, paying no attention to anybody but themselves?

I'm not into forcing rules upon players that can't follow them for whatever reasons (take Mumble as example), someone can't run it because of a weird configuration on his PC, fine I won't enforce it and push him out of the line just because hes unlucky in his current situation. However if somebody tells me clearly in my face this rule sucks/Mumble sucks/ etc. just because he personally dislikes it, although it has proven to improve gameplay, than it is a pleasure for me to throw him out of the server and the whole community if necessary.

unfortunately is what happens today. for example its more than 1 week that my mumble doesnt work properly because it wont links to PR when i launch the game. and 30/40% of the times i get kicked from squads (especially when i jump inside tanks) because i cant communicate through mumble. even if the VOIP inside the game is pretty much enough for what i have to do. if im not a SL and im inside tanks VOIP is perfect to communicate. in case im just a crewman i really dont feel the exigence of mumble...people sometimes simply dont give a **** about that and they kick you anyway.

[Arnoldio]

Tags dont mean shit. I removed them from my nick just because of that reason. I see people with clan tags, you knwo, you would expect them to be playing this game properly... nope, worse than most pubbies...

[Brainlaag]

unfortunately is what happens today. for example its more than 1 week that my mumble doesnt work properly because it wont links to PR when i launch the game. and 30/40% of the times i get kicked from squads (especially when i jump inside tanks) because i cant communicate through mumble. even if the VOIP inside the game is pretty much enough for what i have to do. if im not a SL and im inside tanks VOIP is perfect to communicate. in case im just a crewman i really dont feel the exigence of mumble...people sometimes simply dont give a **** about that and they kick you anyway.

An armor squad entirely through VOIP is a mess, people constantly talking back and forth, just chaos. Here Mumble/TS or whatever is more needed than as regular infantry grunt.

[Souls Of Mischief]

Tags dont mean shit. I removed them from my nick just because of that reason. I see people with clan tags, you knwo, you would expect them to be playing this game properly... nope, worse than most pubbies...

[Tim270]

LOL good catch.

[Orford]

If they join your squad and there not in mumble, fine kick them out of the squad. If there not on mumble kicking them out of the server wtf does that fix how does that help the PR population, you need to get your head out your arse mate if you think thats gonna help this MOD.

Oh hang on, ive found the "IT AINT MY PROBLEM, MATE" section of the forum.

Better being part of the solution than the problem. Inclusion makes it easier to change perception and habbits than banning every one and kicking them cos you want to hang out with the same people every day, in your own little world. Playing the way you play cos thats how you want to play it and fuk every one else.

As soon as some one leaves you have one less and no one wants to come or if they do they arnt made to feel welcome, in the cosy little clique.

Im not saying thats what happen at TG, im just saying thats whats happening to PR. Just look how many players have gone on to be great players playing on the more elite servers after starting there PR on the *NwA* servers. Look how many players now run or admin clans on other servers who started to play PR at *NwA*.

Unless you have an open community where players can play and get help and guidence, you end up with lets face it some where no one want to play............

See what i did there.

I see plenty of US server full every night after the Euro servers slow down for the evening, why is that, why does TG have to close. TG closing isnt the end of PR. There is more to PR than this forum and that server. Stop being part of the problem poking fun at every one else and start to look a little more inward and more self critical instead of taking gibes at every one else. You wonder why not many of *NwA* lads come on here.

[Arc_Shielder]

If you have a stack of players gladly filling up NwA servers and other non-mandatory ones then that means people have a choice. This Mumble talk is quite old and redundant.

You know I'm fond of NwA Orford, but this time I have to disagree with you.

We all know what are the reasons that population is declining. DEVs confirmed some of those things openly to the public as well and there are other variables to consider such as other games, studies and what not.

The fact that some people (including me) are working on a way to bring the kind of serious PR gameplay that some vets miss, it's just a desire on the side. It might draw more players in, but I hardly believe it will define the future of this mod.

Just relax. Do your thing. We all have a part to play in this mod. Just try to contribute what you think it's best. For me that's the most important thing.

[Orford]

We dont have a stack of players who seed our server, thats my point. Pubbers do the seeding 80% of the time. Thats because they know when its fills they will get good teamwork and a fun game. The old phrase if you build it they will come. The more hurdles you have the more people will fall.

Id love to have a full on tactical 100% team work game, but its not realistic to think that can happen in todays PR.

Any time you want a 64man server for a vets night just ask, we have plenty of server resources to help you out.

Im just tierd of the knock NwA sarcasum and wonder how people think its useful in the forum, to me it just shows the attitude to players who dont see every thing there way and to that end the player base will continue to decline. The mumble talk may be old but it still forms the attitude shown all the time to pubbers new players and any one who wants to support them in getting better at PR.

[Souls Of Mischief]

If they join your squad and there not in mumble, fine kick them out of the squad. If there not on mumble kicking them out of the server wtf does that fix how does that help the PR population, you need to get your head out your arse mate if you think thats gonna help this MOD.

Oh hang on, ive found the "IT AINT MY PROBLEM, MATE" section of the forum.

Better being part of the solution than the problem. Inclusion makes it easier to change perception and habbits than banning every one and kicking them cos you want to hang out with the same people every day, in your own little world. Playing the way you play cos thats how you want to play it and fuk every one else.

As soon as some one leaves you have one less and no one wants to come or if they do they arnt made to feel welcome, in the cosy little clique.

Im not saying thats what happen at TG, im just saying thats whats happening to PR. Just look how many players have gone on to be great players playing on the more elite servers after starting there PR on the *NwA* servers. Look how many players now run or admin clans on other servers who started to play PR at *NwA*.

Unless you have an open community where players can play and get help and guidence, you end up with lets face it some where no one want to play............

See what i did there.

I see plenty of US server full every night after the Euro servers slow down for the evening, why is that, why does TG have to close. TG closing isnt the end of PR. There is more to PR than this forum and that server. Stop being part of the problem poking fun at every one else and start to look a little more inward and more self critical instead of taking gibes at every one else. You wonder why not many of *NwA* lads come on here.

I guess this was aimed at Arnoldio. Just want to clarify.

[LK1]

An armor squad entirely through VOIP is a mess, people constantly talking back and forth, just chaos. Here Mumble/TS or whatever is more needed than as regular infantry grunt.

ye but even when we are in 4 somenoe has to complains.
p.s. i would like to see a new channel for mumble, vehicle channel instead of the local speech, because when a tank is closed to the outside you wouldnt be able to hear what the crew is speaking from inside the tank. but when you press H anyone inside is able to hear you.

[saXoni]

i would like to see a new channel for mumble, vehicle channel instead of the local speech, because when a tank is closed to the outside you wouldnt be able to hear what the crew is speaking from inside the tank. but when you press H anyone inside is able to hear you.

Just fix your Mumble and PR volume. I've done that and I can hear everyone perfectly fine, even the ones in helicopters/vehicles.