kokan v.97 feedback

[Anderson29]

alright, i have been building this feedback for quite a while. it involves some minor work to fix (or make better imo) that i think could be done in a very short amount of time. most of the feedback i have involves terrain attributes and some minor things for balance regarding the dishkas.

kokan 2k map.
far too often i see vehicles of both factions just cruising all through the fields through out this map which is unrealistic in my opinion. and since (im guessing here) the bf2 engine cant simulate loose dirt or mud, what i suggest is making the terrain in the kokan fields similar to the fields in korengal valley, which is very bumpy and if sped through would cause damage to the vehicle.... {view attachment photo to see what i am talking about}


in my opinion roads are created for a reason...a smooth path for vehicles to traverse the land with greater speed and without damage. so when all terrain is flat like kashan then the roads serve little to no purpose other than navigating around impassable terrain and obstacles and with the fields not having any bumps, reduction in speed or any other type of hindrance...then you have people driving through the fields of kokan because its just as fast (if not faster) and smooth as driving on the road which leads to unrealistic driving behavior in-game.

now for the balance aspect of kokan. in this regard i only have a problem with the standard version because the alternate with the canadians is pretty fair & therefore hardly ever played. now im cool with all the techies that spawn by the quad cannon and would rather them spawn at main but there is not 1 gun techi that respawns once destroyed. there should be at least 1 that respawns in main or the ones at the quad need to respawn like the ammo techi does. because with out gun techies the kiowas own, unless you know how to take advantage of the stinger cuz the strella is just about useless. but if you choose not to let the gun techies to respawn then maybe take 1 of the kiowa out. to even things up a bit.

[40mmrain]

Kokan is actually a 1KM map. Which, personally I have distaste for. I dont find kokan to be poorly balanced, but I find it to be... the same all the time. I really think it ought to be a 2x2, that would improve it greatly

though I agree the quad cannon area is a bit of a farce, it's pure chance whether or not you can get there before the kiowa annihilates everything

[KiloJules]

AFAIK Kokan is indeed a 2 km map although the scale on the minimap shows the 75 m instead of the 150 m it should show. Also half of the map is not used but still it I believe it is 2 km.

Regarding the AA area...I agree having the techi spawn in main would be way better, "more realistic" and only fair. Even if there is a rally spawn at the beginning of the round it is kinda stupid that the talibanese had to take care of all these vehicles (8+ men) right at the beginning instead of taking/using them when they are needed. Often enough they just sit there getting destroyed cause people are busy elsewhere.

[spiked_rye]

far too often i see vehicles of both factions just cruising all through the fields through out this map which is unrealistic in my opinion. and since (im guessing here) the bf2 engine cant simulate loose dirt or mud, what i suggest is making the terrain in the kokan fields similar to the fields in korengal valley, which is very bumpy and if sped through would cause damage to the vehicle.}

AFAIK, the BF2 engine can simulate different materials like loose dirt and mud. But I deffinatley think you're right about making the fields more bumpy to encourage players to use the roads more. Good suggestion.

[Microwaife]

I think the idea with the bumpy fields is perfect. It would make the IED/Mines more usefull.

[SShadowFox]

I just want to see the US Layer having Chinook, far as I know in Afghan the US most use the Chinook as main helicopter as the Black Hawk is not good in the Afghan altitude, correct me if i'm wrong.

Edit - Turning the terrain bumpy can turn more harder to the helicopters to land.

[Anderson29]

Project Reality: BF2 v0.96 Map Image Gallery
says there its 2km.

and i know the engine can simulate the sound....but can it physically impact a vehicle's speed?

and yeah it would make landing choppers a little difficult but they could just hover, land on a road, or do a water drop. but in real life a chopper wouldnt land in a field where they could not see the ground to ensure its flat or would be scouted out before hand and designated as an LZ
its not that blackhawk is not good in altitude, its that it cant carry as many troops as the chinook. chinook is used primarily for large troop transport for army and marines and blackhawk is used primarily for small teams and medivac. i could see 1 blackhawk, 1 chinook, and 1 kiowa being on u.s. army in kokan.

[Pronck]

I would say, give the mapper or even a community mapper the chance to use more of the maps size by making a few bigger villages with farmland around it like lashkar. And I would also recommended restructuring the main base so the vehicles have more space to move around since it is still to tight in my opinion. The same thing for the BLUFOR base since it is a little bit to tight to prepare for bigger troop movements.

[speedazz]

I did actually like idea about fields. Yes it would be harder for helis to land, but if you are a good pilot you can easily land helis on the roads and inside the compounds

[SShadowFox]

I did actually like idea about fields. Yes it would be harder for helis to land, but if you are a good pilot you can easily land helis on the roads and inside the compounds

If a Taliban Sapper know that a chopper will land on certain position, he will put IEDs and stuff, if the chopper don't land, it still can be used against enemy armor/light vehicle turning a little bit better for the sapper and harder to the coalition.

[Rudd]

Agreed with the OP, add a tiny bit of noise to the fields in the .raw and it should end up being pretty bumpy.

Not too much though, just enough to make roads nicer.

[paul161616]

very good idea with the fields being bumpy, because making it just bumpy enough to deter vehicles probably wont effect chopper landings a whole lot. also realistically the taliban probably wouldnt/couldnt be driving over their own poppy fields

[40mmrain]

kokan is in fact 2k?

makes sense.

though the half of the map being unused is what causes what I mentioned.

[tankninja1]

fields aren't that bumpy, the biggest bumps are the 3inx2in plow marks and or 4in rocks

[Anderson29]

Originally Posted by Sshadowfox >
If a Taliban Sapper know that a chopper will land on certain position, he will put IEDs and stuff, if the chopper don't land, it still can be used against enemy armor/light vehicle turning a little bit better for the sapper and harder to the coalition.

that is a tactic that was used in iraq at one point in time.

and tankninja if you can drive though a field that has waist high vegetation growing on it just as fast as you can drive on a road....then i take back my original post.

[Deer]

The vehicle setup (kiowas and no respawning technicals), compounds and terrain are all designed to modify players behavior so that taliban would really defend instead of attack and blufor would really attack instead of sit.
Blufor has very few "raping" vehicles.. by that i mean vehicles what are very effective killing machines.. instead they have "terror" assets.. by that i mean assets which shoot a lot and bombard the enemy positions like hell but doesnt kill that many enemies. Sound of these "terror" vehicles also makes friendly bluefor players attack more for some odd reason and bombardment of these vehicles makes taliban remain within compounds and indoors more.

So in nutshell vehicles role in gameplay is to put taliban indoors to defend and make attacking easy for blufor. Rounds where opffor loses on insurgency gamemode, are the best rounds (and im playing opfor 70% of the time), there is plenty epic firefights and teamwork involved in those rounds, so im basicly trying to make them lose. Rounds where blufor sits, and therefore loses, are the worst ones.

About no respawning techincals, thats because it makes kiowas stronger. Kiowas are almost useless against taliban that are indoors, but punishes taliban very hardly if they start attacking instead of defending.. this modifys taliban players behavior so that they do what they are supposed to do more, defend instead of attack. I think gameplay would be even more fun if taliban wouldnt have AA kit.

Isnt it just fun when your squad's compound is being bombarded simultaneously by 2 kiowas, APC, humwees, infantry, blackhawk and mortars.. yet you stay alive and face the overpowered enemy in close combat after the bombardment, and eventually youll get overran and lose the cache? =)

[40mmrain]

I agree that techis ought not respawn, the stinger is more than enough of a counter, however, I just dont agree with the fact that the quad gun, and techis are completely undefended at the start of nearly every round, and end up just being worthless and instantly destroyed.

Also, the JDAM needs to be removed in DB's mod, destroying 25% of the caches for free, compared to 14% is a little too much. Change it to arty.

[Pronck]

Deer are you crazy? You can never safe those techies before they destroy it, so give us one respawning techy. And no aa kits makes them win all the time but those fields really need to adjusted like in de OP.

[Dude_Nukem]

Good point for making the fields more rough. It will be no problem for choppers, they can just hover, like said. Even I can hover the chopper and I am not an active pilot.

I agree with Deer about behaviour and so. But what happens, when your inside defending the cache, BluFor takes mister C4 along them or Jdam. Making the fields rougher will make the usage of C4 less, I guess.

Keep the same amount techies, imo. But how about spreading these techies around the map instead of that these are spawning in one place?

If the fields are going to be rougher. You also have to think about that the bombcars (Gary) and techies (powerfull/vitale assets for Taliban) are more vulnerable now for such like easy spotting/lazing for KIOWA('s), AT-mines (either friendly or enemy) etc.

I reckon to leave the area to the east as flat as it is. Where the armoured vehicles go alot.
This will probably cause IED spam on the NE corner (chokepoint) for the armoured vehicles.

Afterall I am fine with it as the way it is, except for the bunched up techies. But you got a point about the unrealistic fields.

[badmojo420]

I don't think the Kiowas get used in a good way on Kokan. 90% of the time they just strafe the cache marker with rockets and fly back to base. It makes rooftop/exposed caches extremely vulnerable to them. It's horribly easy to take down a Kiowa with the stinger. Most of the time you don't even need to lock them.

It does suck that Taliban have anti-air kits, otherwise I would suggest switching the Kiowas to the ones without rockets. That way they might actually do some recon and assist the ground troops. But, with stingers they'd be flying coffins.

I think the current helicopters should be scrapped and one Chinook should be added instead. I feel like putting more emphasis on ground warfare would really help focus the combat. It would take 4+ blufor out of aircraft and onto the ground assaulting caches.

I've never really seen a round of Kokan where the Kiowas were an integral part of the blufor assault, they're just too damn easy to take down. They might get one or two caches sometimes, because sitting on a rooftop holding a stinger for hours does get boring. But, as soon as they get one, everyone on the taliban team tries to request the AA kit or brings up a 50cal techy. Not to mention, having 30 guys defending a cache only for a helicopter to fire some missiles out of visual range and blow it up, isn't really that fun for anyone except that 1 kiowa pilot.

Agreed on the fields needing some roughness. It would help with the lower graphics settings also, you can basically see people crawling through the crops on the lowest settings. It feels like cheating.

As for the technicals at the quad cannon, why can't we have a temporary spawn point there at the start of the round?