[R-DEV]dbzao's Public Gameplay Test #3

[Phoenix4894]

i dont really like it, that we can't use enemy kits AT ALL. not kind of "reality"...rest is good tho

[RedAlertSF]

If anything they should probably really redesign the caves in themselves to be bigger.

That is a good option as well but I don't know if that would be too big a job. But if we want to continue having cave caches, in my opinion the caves need to have more entrances than 2 and moving in the caves should not be dependent on ladders.

[JTFARockz]

I miss TG

[40mmrain]

i dont really like it, that we can't use enemy kits AT ALL. not kind of "reality"...rest is good tho

it gets around the geometry issue. No conventional soldier would wear the uniform of his enemy unless he intends to be shot by his own friendlies. Plus I dont know about you, but as untrained talib probably would not find operating an AT4 or something effectively quite easy.

[Pronck]

Google man they are smarter than you think they are. That is the main issue the most guys have, they see the OPFOR as a bunch of dumbasses.

[Mats391]

Google man they are smarter than you think they are. That is the main issue the most guys have, they see the OPFOR as a bunch of dumbasses.

yes you can find everything on google. time to give insurgents some nuclear weapons

[Pronck]

No that is kind of too much. But they do know how to handle M16 rifles and other light weapons. The only they cant is reloading because they probably dont have the resources to buy it.

[SGT.Ice]

it gets around the geometry issue. No conventional soldier would wear the uniform of his enemy unless he intends to be shot by his own friendlies. Plus I dont know about you, but as untrained talib probably would not find operating an AT4 or something effectively quite easy.

I'd honestly argue that point. Seeing as all the instructions are on the AT4. It tells you to slide the handle, press a button & fire.

The insurgents are smart yes, but most people would prefer the notion they are really stupid.

However though even on the geometry issue I think it's still feasible. The only part of your enemies kit you usually take is their headgear/sometimes minor parts of their vest & such. Dosen't seem like a huge problem, identifying enemies/friendlies even without using those components is quite easy with experience.

well yesterday the canadians won on kokan...suprised me to be honest...we only got 1 that was unknown and it was the last one...and the LAV got it i think (h6k9 is the grid that the lav destroyed the cache)....only had about 90 tickets left after destroying the 3rd cache. and we had mortars. and we also used the jdam on the third one as well....but the jdam didnt destroy it, infantry had to go in and finish the job. it was a fun and challenging round

DB's changes don't have unknowns though...?

[Anderson29]

so after u destroy a cache....the new cache becomes instantly known or is it unknown till enough intel is gathered?

{insert image of chris berman "c'mon man"}


(the second statement is correct btw)

[40mmrain]

I'd honestly argue that point. Seeing as all the instructions are on the AT4. It tells you to slide the handle, press a button & fire.

I wouldnt. Personally I know less than 5 iraqis who can read english. I think it's worth mentioning any soldier firing said weapon requires quite a few hours training with the weapon before firing it too, and more until he's accurate.

Perhaps allow taliban and insurgents to use these weapons but with ludicrous deviation. As for the AR platforms, G36s, and such these weapons are certainly more simple, but still not without their intricacies, like a forward assist, fire selection, sight zeroing, mag release location, and such.

If you can show me some reports of talib, insurgents, and militia capturing american AT, and rifles, and using them, i'd be inclined to change my mind

so after u destroy a cache....the new cache becomes instantly known or is it unknown till enough intel is gathered?

second one

[ShockUnitBlack]

If you can show me some reports of talib, insurgents, and militia capturing american AT, and rifles, and using them, i'd be inclined to change my mind

The terrorist dudes in Iron Man had G36s lol. Must be true.

My belief is that if I'm playing as the US Army, I should be using US weapons, not a dead dude's AK-47. Games are better when everybody has different weapons - if everybody had AK-47s, it would get boring fast. Is variety not the spice of life?


Also, the annoying kit-geo problem is fixed.

[badmojo420]

If you can show me some reports of talib, insurgents, and militia capturing american AT, and rifles, and using them, i'd be inclined to change my mind

Although it doesn't show usage, I doubt they returned them to ISAF.

Just google "insurgents using us weapons" or "taliban using us weapons" and you'll see lots of reports.

[Pronck]

Thank you badmojo, but if these guys above don't change their mindset it won't have any effects to come with evidence because they will probably refuse to agree. It smells like BLUFOR whores over here.

[Mats391]

yep, everyone that is in favor of this change hates insurgents. there are no other possibilities to like the change except hating insurgents.
this is a gameplay change, so pretty much any "but but its realistic" arguments arent suited here. you should try to explain what positive gameplay effects result from picking up and using enemy kits. i only see negative ones.

[Pronck]

yep, everyone that is in favor of this change hates insurgents. there are no other possibilities to like the change except hating insurgents.
this is a gameplay change, so pretty much any "but but its realistic" arguments arent suited here. you should try to explain what positive gameplay effects result from picking up and using enemy kits. i only see negative ones.

Well if you get killed why should we protect you? You get killed because of tactical mistakes or other elements that the enemy is better in. Nonetheless, if the kit geometry issue with the helmets etc. is fixed this change has less of a foundation to relie on. I mean the insurgents can handle an M16 or M4, it takes not so much time to learn how to handle the gun. The positive effects of picking up the kit of the enemy, especially for the insurgents is that you will feel more like an insurgent faction which numerous of different weapons, that are stolen, picked of the ground or bought from the corrupt government. It allows the insurgents to have more snipers, because the sniper treath isn't really represented in the game since they haven't made a modified AK yet to replace the SVD or Lee-Enfield sniper. The other positive effect of whatever you wan't to call it, is that you can finally use the equipment that is avaible to you in your favour. If the insurgents find C4 in real life, do you think that they leave it on the ground? No!

It also offers the diversity of weapons that isn't really represented in the current insurgent faction, picking up kits offers this and also offers the ability to loot the equipment left behind by your enemy. And not to forget the fact that you have the right in this game to defend yourself at all cost, this also means that you should be able to pick up the AK of the dead Hadji next to you to cover your mates while they are calling in air support or healing their mates.

That leads to my next point, I understand that we not allow the enemy/especially insurgents to use Stingers stolen from the BLUFOR or HAT. But the medic kit, should be avaible all time for every faction, since every soldiers has the right to have medical aid at all times, of course the insurgents aren't really soldiers, but we have human rights.

So my conclusion is: Keep it as it is now in the normal mod, and allow all factions to use the medic kit from the enemy. And don't act like you are an angel we know that people are often hating on the underrated factions because they can't stand that they get lose from them.

[Moonlight]

I think certain users are forgetting that a scenario in which an entire insurgent battalion is equipped with m4s after 20 US soldiers die assaulting a weapon cash is highly unlikely. Furthermore, had it really happened - would you expect every single one of those insurgents to be able to use the gear they just acquired with exactly same professionalism as the soldiers?
Because that's what happens in PR.
I recall a time(like a week ago) when I blew up about two squads on fallujah with an arty ied - 3 minutes later almost all the cash defenders had US kit - some even carried the SAW kits to the roofs. Sure it was fun. But just unhealthy for the gameplay.
I have little-to-no care about how is it in real - frankly it does not matter that much. If it did insurgency mode would be non-existent - unless US troops really rush for weapon cashes with thermites in their hands.

All in all - I do like the dbzao's change concerning enemy kits.

[Pronck]

Didn't you read what I said above, I said that if they keep it as it is, it woulde be the best, and if you have experienced INS rounds lately, most of the people still carry AKs and PKMs and only a few guys walk around with a M16. And M249s etc. cannot really be used at this moment, yes for a few seconds, but 9/10 people keep it to their AK which they can shoot with for unlimited time. And when 20 soldiers die, let's count what we can use. 20/6= 3.2 Squads

Every squad has an Sl times 3= 3 SL kits
Every squad a medic times 3= 3 Medic Kits
Every squad an AR times 3= 3 ARs
1 or 2 squads with a grenadier= 1/2 Grenadiers let's use 1
1 Engineer= 1 Engineer
1 Sniper 1 Sniper

The rest are rifleman or specialist. That means that 20-3-3-3-1-1-1= 8 Kits useable for the Insurgents, not to forget that one humvee with 3 or 4 guys in it is blown up by IEDs.

So the point you made is in my opinion made bigger than it really is.

But since I feel that 80% of the people here is in favour of this change, and I do not mention the percentage of BLUFOR W***** it will happen and it will spoil insurgency and it will result in even easier rounds for the BLUFOR and it will result in a 1337 team vs. Sticks and Stones team. If we or let's say it like this: If YOU guys want this change to be made, give the insurgents some love, give us the modified AK-47 with a scope, give us a bigger diversity of weapons/IEDs and vehicles, so give us a techy with an 20MM on it or a huge slightly inaccurate rocket pod. And not to forget update the maps so we stand a chance. Because in the end it will lead into insurgency dieing for the insurgent fans and you guys will become your own victim because you won't have any opponent to play against when we reach 1.2.......

[Anderson29]

Didn't you read what I said above, I said that if they keep it as it is, it woulde be the best, and if you have experienced INS rounds lately, most of the people still carry AKs and PKMs and only a few guys walk around with a M16. And M249s etc. cannot really be used at this moment, yes for a few seconds, but 9/10 people keep it to their AK which they can shoot with for unlimited time. And when 20 soldiers die, let's count what we can use. 20/6= 3.2 Squads

Every squad has an Sl times 3= 3 SL kits
Every squad a medic times 3= 3 Medic Kits
Every squad an AR times 3= 3 ARs
1 or 2 squads with a grenadier= 1/2 Grenadiers let's use 1
1 Engineer= 1 Engineer
1 Sniper 1 Sniper

The rest are rifleman or specialist. That means that 20-3-3-3-1-1-1= 8 Kits useable for the Insurgents, not to forget that one humvee with 3 or 4 guys in it is blown up by IEDs.

So the point you made is in my opinion made bigger than it really is.

But since I feel that 80% of the people here is in favour of this change, and I do not mention the percentage of BLUFOR W***** it will happen and it will spoil insurgency and it will result in even easier rounds for the BLUFOR and it will result in a 1337 team vs. Sticks and Stones team. If we or let's say it like this: If YOU guys want this change to be made, give the insurgents some love, give us the modified AK-47 with a scope, give us a bigger diversity of weapons/IEDs and vehicles, so give us a techy with an 20MM on it or a huge slightly inaccurate rocket pod. And not to forget update the maps so we stand a chance. Because in the end it will lead into insurgency dieing for the insurgent fans and you guys will become your own victim because you won't have any opponent to play against when we reach 1.2.......

all i hear (read) is

i love playing as insurgent or tailiban...and the thing i hate most(besides ropes in the specialist kit) is seeing blufor running around with ak's and insurgent head garb. db mod fixes this and i hope this is the way the game is heading, i dont needz no scopez to win

[Rudd]

The gameplay is better this way imo, though if balancing is required, there are multiple ways to do it

[SGT.Ice]

I wouldnt. Personally I know less than 5 iraqis who can read english. I think it's worth mentioning any soldier firing said weapon requires quite a few hours training with the weapon before firing it too, and more until he's accurate.

Perhaps allow taliban and insurgents to use these weapons but with ludicrous deviation. As for the AR platforms, G36s, and such these weapons are certainly more simple, but still not without their intricacies, like a forward assist, fire selection, sight zeroing, mag release location, and such.

If you can show me some reports of talib, insurgents, and militia capturing american AT, and rifles, and using them, i'd be inclined to change my mind



second one

M16's are laying around all over the middle east that I could believe, AT4, probably a bit farther off.

When I said insurgents should be able to use US kits, what I meant is anything that does not require intense specialty training. Such as the Rifleman, ~LAT, Specialist, AR, etc. that can be used now. However they should be able to use the Grenadier in my opinion, since they have GP-25's which are similar, except the M320 is a side loading system.

Most of you seem to overlook the fact that a lot of the Insurgents were THE Republican Guard (aka. Iraqi Army).

Personally I don't mind BLUFOR wearing shamaghs, even if they aren't the ones they usually wear or in the style they often wear em. If my gun runs out of ammo I need a gun, i'm going to reach for the first thing I see. If That's an AK i'm going to use an AK. People like to argue it takes too much training to use an AK, if kids in Africa can use it from 9+ years old i'm sure a soldier trained to operate an M16 can use it. Load a magazine, pull, fire.