Eliteism

[SGT.Ice]

Srsly, what's wrong with playing music on mumble, even if it makes certain ploddits explode??
Not everything has to be tacticool milsim blablabla...

Your arrogance is astounding. If you search around the forums the dev that has to pay for Mumble out of his own pocket, PAYS MORE because of people playing music.

Most action shooters nowadays are simple compared to PR. Players buy games to relax and have fun. Most players do not want to have a game that you actually have to invest in, to read, to learn.

PR is not such a game.

In today's age, we have gotten catered to have everything the easy way on the internet. May it be Google or an easy way to rent a movie.

In the old days you actually had to work for the fun part. With Boardgames you had to read the rules/manual before you could play it. No computer to try over and over again and figure it out

In my opinion RFTM is a valid response to questions about basic concepts in the game.
When a player walks in on a server, expecting to have everything served as his feet, at no work from himself, I do not take him seriously. Why should I spend my playing time, which is increasingly getting smaller to teach someone the bacis, when that player easily could just read the manual, or google additional youtube videos that explain both tactics & gameplay. We all had to work to get better at PR, that being SL or just a grunt.

Skill takes time and hard work.

I have no problem if a player joins, tells me he is new to the game and takes a rifleman. I will gladly have him in my sqd as long as he listens and follow orders, mistakes included.

But have a player joins, not saying a word and take a sniper to run off, or join expecting me to teach him how to aim, fire, take a weapon, enter a car and complains why there is no radar like in BF2 then no. If he hasn't done his homework, I will send him back to do so.

I have experienced players who, with an arrogant attitude expected me to explain everything to him. When told to read the manual - the response I got was "im to lazy, why don't you just tell me everything"

Remember.....

Before the internet, the village idiot would stay in his village.

Human interaction & learning from someone that know's how things work. Will teach him much quicker/efficiently compared to reading walls of text. When you have human interaction you can also ask your questions on the spot & get them clarified, a manual cannot answer them on the spot.

[ShockUnitBlack]

I would probably describe myself as an elitist at this point. I don't mind new players so long as they listen and communicate, but I've turned into a bit of a loner in PR thing as I don't find most SLs all that good and have found I can do extremely well just playing alone (my challenge is to walk out of every game I join with a K/D ratio of higher than five working alone, and I've done pretty well at meeting that challenge so far).

[SGT.Ice]

K/D isn't a bad thing so long as you're supporting the team somehow.

But on the topic of elitism, why don't we take a poll of what everyone defines elitism as so we can better handle the topic.

[Jevski]

Human interaction & learning from someone that know's how things work. Will teach him much quicker/efficiently compared to reading walls of text. When you have human interaction you can also ask your questions on the spot & get them clarified, a manual cannot answer them on the spot.

I agree with you there, but that is not the point. As i said if he does not know the basics. If he has not at least made an effort to learn the game, whats its about. We who know the game play to have fun and relax.
We have already invested the time in learning the game. So why should I go that extra mile? When he can do it himself? Im not asking much, just the basics, how to request a weapon, enter a car you know the basic.


A player who has the attitude, of explain it all to me im lazy, does not have the right mindset for PR in the first place. Would he be that kind of player that spendt 30 min of his time driving a logi around on archer so his team can get fobs up? Or does he sound like the player who does not want to go the extra mile even for himself and just want instant gratification.

Its like taking a driver license. You read up on your theory and stuff. You dont show up expecting the teacher to teach you how to read.

I want the newbie to make an EFFORT!

As to the asking questions, Just do this

[SGT.Ice]

While that's all great & everything I never read the manual. But I know more than most people that have it seems at times.

[mr.cuddelywuddely]

Seeing this thread, i decided to make newplayerhere squad even with my non existing squadleaders skills.

I hope i teached the new guys some basics like spreading out when travelling on foot, coverfire and flank, not giving up until the last man of the squad dies.

we had an abysmal k/d ratio. mainly to my poor sl skills, and the giving up imediatly. but in the end we did take north bunkers on kashan so it was not all bad.

I don't consider myself elitist, i found out that most guys in the squad where willing to learn and generally followed orders.

I would say if you dissapointed in new guys, make a new players squad, you will find that if you explain stuff clearly they will generally follow orders because they would not join a new player squad if they are not willing to learn.

Would i make a new player squad again: perhaps, i dont feel confident in squadleading enough and i worry that it negatively affects the fun in the game with a poor squadleader.
So to all good sl out there: make a new player squad every now and again!

[Pronck]

I am recently starting to ask guys if they are new if they seem to be inexperienced. When they say I yes I often give them a few tips, number one is to print out the manual and lay it next to them so they can look up when needed. The second one is to keep it to the rifleman and not to take the sniper kit. The thirth one is to be responsive, and the last one is to not panic when getting shot at, it really helped some guys but I am afraid it only lasts for one day.

[KillJoy[Fr]]

I am recently starting to ask guys if they are new if they seem to be inexperienced. When they say I yes I often give them a few tips, number one is to print out the manual and lay it next to them so they can look up when needed. The second one is to keep it to the rifleman and not to take the sniper kit. The thirth one is to be responsive, and the last one is to not panic when getting shot at, it really helped some guys but I am afraid it only lasts for one day.

Da polish guy yesterday night ?

[Pronck]

;1796095']Da polish guy yesterday night ?

Yes, but I gave him the medic kit later on and it turned out he was a solid medic whom didn't paniced he was a good guy after all.

[sweedensniiperr]

I am recently starting to ask guys if they are new if they seem to be inexperienced. When they say I yes I often give them a few tips, number one is to print out the manual and lay it next to them so they can look up when needed. The second one is to keep it to the rifleman and not to take the sniper kit. The thirth one is to be responsive, and the last one is to not panic when getting shot at, it really helped some guys but I am afraid it only lasts for one day.

Yes, but I gave him the medic kit later on and it turned out he was a solid medic whom didn't paniced he was a good guy after all.

See. This is the stuff you want to hear. Instead of the usual "PR gameplay is ruined by noobs".

[smiley]

See. This is the stuff you want to hear. Instead of the usual "PR gameplay is ruined by noobs".

Almost correct, it should read " PR gameplay is ruined by people who think they are experienced but aren't"

New players aren't a problem as they're usually very predictable it's the people who think they know what they're doing who then do incredibly stupid stuff who are the real problem imo. This is the real definition of elitism because it's based on supposition and not reality.( no pun intended)

[SGT.Ice]

So long as they actually respond it's not a problem.

[Pronck]

As Sgt.Ice stated the main problem of certain people is that they don't respond to either chat, VOIP or mumble. That is the biggest irritation for squadleaders AND members because they can cost your life. The noobs who don't know this and that are slow with responding are often mistakenly seen as non-responsive people. This leads to people being kicked and bad integration into the community.

[DDS]

I am an Elitist, but not regards mumble.

I don't tolerate racists, idiots, griefers, immature players, haters, juvenile 'Experts' on the game that couldn't display any form of realistic tactics in a functional manner, game exploiters etc.

If the community spent more time excluding these type of players, and the rest of it educating new players then you would see growth. Instead every thread devolves into LOL bs and name calling. Mumble is a great tool so encourage its use, don't kick someone who isn't using it. Show them why it is beneficial to use it.

Those that use mumble every time they play, use it correctly. Cut the pointless spam and music that drags Mumble's name through the mud and reinforces the now dated perception of it and its users.

If you want a mature community that will attract new players the first thing you have to do is conduct yourself in a mature manner, the second is not kick players the second they join your squad because they aren't using mumble.

Seriously using Mumble isn't a guarantee of mature, tactical play, it's a tool that facilitates coordination. I have heard just as much garbage, if not more, over Mumble as I have over squad chat.

Demonstrate the advantages of Mumble to get people to use. Act maturely, play tactically, demonstrate teamwork, be open to new players etc if you want to attract them and get them invested.

The alternative is turning PR:Bf into a very small club that slowly withers.

Edit: I use the handling of the 'Mumble' debate as an example as it is clearly symptomatic of many other issues in the community.

Thank you for that Wickens. Well said.
It's really not complicated.

But on the topic of elitism, why don't we take a poll of what everyone defines elitism as so we can better handle the topic..

Interesting point.
I worry that we look a bit snobberish (another word) in how new players perceive our elitism. I still remember when I first played how it was okay to be completely lost on how to play. Noob (dumbass) was not part of the vocabulary.

I'm kinda hoping the next few releases knock us on our collective asses in terms of how good we think we really are?

[SGT.Ice]

Really hope so, when I started playing the game seriously it was a lot funner. Then again back then people across the board were all about the game, not themselves.

What I find most annoying as i'm an ******* to everyone equally & like to think I am better for various reasons. It pisses me off when I tell someone what button to press in order to type & they still can't respond. The community started to take a turn for the worse/become hostile imo ~0.8 or 0.85.

[SnipeHunt]

The community has always been laced with eliteist, superior, pretentious.. whatever you want to call it people. It is both good and bad. It forces some players to shape up and play the way PR should be played, scares others away that do not posess the skills to play correctly, but I(and I assume most others) have seen it causes good new players to rage and quit.

I've only been playing since .74? When an advertisement made it to the BF2 vanilla homepage. There was ALOT of players moving to PR at that time and I grew a thick skin very fast to all the 'old timers' that thought I wasn't worthy of their prized mod and community.

Mumble is to VOIP what PR is to BF2. It is a step above, a step ahead....
Hopefully one day mumble will be a part of PR instead of the standalone program, but until then embrace the bugs and glitches of the ongoing development and get it working for the sake of the team/game.

[Brainlaag]

Really hope so, when I started playing the game seriously it was a lot funner. Then again back then people across the board were all about the game, not themselves.

What I find most annoying as i'm an ******* to everyone equally & like to think I am better for various reasons. It pisses me off when I tell someone what button to press in order to type & they still can't respond. The community started to take a turn for the worse/become hostile imo ~0.8 or 0.85.

From what I remember it really started with 0.9, probably because of the massive influx of new players with that big and well advertised release.

[SGT.Ice]

From what I remember it really started with 0.9, probably because of the massive influx of new players with that big and well advertised release.

I felt it starting around 0.8, full blown in 0.9

Bugs me some days because the community was all about hammering the enemy team rather than each other. I could go to any squad & pop off jokes with people.

[Arnoldio]

There is people who are bad at the game and there is people who are just plainly stupid fucking morons with IQ less than 10. Thats the plague of PR that i cant stand. (Not just in PR tho... misantrophy is strong with this one.)