Lone Humvees Going to Battle

[Quikli]

In Project Reality, it's normal for a single squad to hop on a single humvee, and maybe one logi truck, and drive off alone into the forsaken battleground. This happens all the time!

Just like the movie "The Hurt Locker" and its unrealism, this unrealistic aspect of PR bugs me. Sure it's just a reality of the game that there are only 32 players on each side, and not everyone can form convoys all the time. But it kinda' ruins the realism when only one humvee goes out to battle. Usually there are a minimum of 4 humvees to a convoy in real life. A single humvee would never be authorized to go out into combat.

I wish more and more coordination was available between teammates to form convoys. Whenever I AM in a convoy, it's epic, and I feel great. Just picture you and three other humvees, all coordinated in a straight line, zipping in great force towards your objective.

It would make for more fun gameplay, not only for Blufor forces, but even the insurgents. Imagine the daunting challenges for someone in the opposition team trying to take on a convoy of humvees in an ambush.

What are your opinions?

[billysmall44]

Like you said. its 32 against 32. Everyone has different roles and not everyone can hop in a humvee to create a convoy. Just to have all the air assets to be used thats at least a full squads worth of people. say nother squad wants to be mortars. they arent going to be much use sitting in a convoy all day long and it would make more sense building them closer to base. Everyone wants to do different things and play their own way. It doesnt mean there is a lack of teamwork or coordination.

[heldro]

Now imagine 1 arty IED.

[L4gi]

Look at me, now look at your convoy, now back at me. Bang they all dead.

[Hunt3r]

Convoys are for people who want to go full retard.

[Solver]

Player limit. Sometimes there are armored convoys, or 2 humvee + logi convoys, but you can't get a 4 humvee convoy with 32 players. You don't even have 4 full infantry squads in many rounds.

[SShadowFox]

Yea, put 4 HUMVEES and 2 Logistic Trucks, then go to an area full of IEDs and enemy positions, yea, because you probably wont go to a random position to do nothing, you'll be going to a combat zone, in Insurgency full of IEDs, RPG, and MGs ready to kill the entire convoy, if in AAS, you'll be going to a zone with APC, maybe tanks, L-AT, MG, H-AT.

This wont work, SOMETIMES it work, but mostly, no.

If it's secure, the players will make convoys, if no, they'll play by themselves, but they'll still requesting/giving intel to other squads or the Commander.

Convoys don't mean a significant enhancement to the teamwork and gameplay, mean easy kills for the enemy.

[Rudd]

Convoys can work, but groups of multiple vehicles working together works better. (e.g. 2 groups of 2 humvees, one being a firesupport element and the other being the assaulting element.)

Convoys are usually so caught up in the fact they are travelling in a big ol' line that they forget why the heck they are gonna travel that way.

Ask yourself

"WHY AM I IN A CONVOY"?

n00b answer - cuz its realz, or because its cool, or because its black hawk down.

correct answer -

1) because when something threatens the convoy we are all gonna actually supress it (i.e. not stare in that direction, actually fire rounds downrange together so that even if only 1 of us is actually accurate, the sheer amount of fire will tell the enemy "piss off")

2) because only one vehicle is definately going to be taken out by a mine if we enter a minefield

3) because my convoy actually has a destination, we're going from base to point A to build a FB and attack a position etc etc. We're not just gonna drive around like destruction derby being picked off one by one. We're not gonna pile up all our vehicles in one place where its easy for enemies to throw RKGs over the wall...

4) because I need alot of ammo, because I do alot of suppressing; all these vehicles have plenty. The more I suppress, the more the enemy is put on the back foot.

5) because I need plenty of 50cals to destroy enemy vehicles

6) because I need my team to stay coordinated - i.e. all working together rather than each squad having a go one by one.


Convoys fail because people don't actually understand the point to them, they are a tool but you are blunting that tool by not actually performing the convoy role. Protect high value assets with lesser value assets, fire upon any threat even if you aren't in a stable position, if only 30% of your rounds go near that enemy...then that enemy is still gonna be going 'get down!' especially if only 30% of 5 vehicles's rounds are hitting the correct spot.


Lone humvees are only good for doing a recon, i.e. driving someplace with good views, taking some fire, firing back a little bit and then withdrawing to the team position having located enemy positions e.g. location of cache centric weaponry.


The only MAJOR problem with this tactic is that you will lose men without the chance to revive since they died in a vehicle.

[Cassius]

Well you can support each other. I made a humvee squad once. 4 guys 2 humvees. We hauled another squad around throughout the game and supported it with our 2 humvees. So we had always like 10 guys in a spot. My squad had over 40 kills at the end.

[Stealthgato]

Bring TOW Humvess back pl0x.

[Pronck]

Convoys will become useful when there is a way to disarm remote detonated IEDs and when people go EOD for once.

[Sgt.BountyOrig]

More often than not, I'm more scared of my own teammates silliness/trigger happiness/lack of discipline that may get me killed later, I often find they have no intent of working with me so I just want to get as much distance from them as I can.

The one humvee on it's own model works for me.

After all, how can you be teamkilled if there is no team around to kill you?

[Arnoldio]

Convoys can work, but groups of multiple vehicles working together works better. (e.g. 2 groups of 2 humvees, one being a firesupport element and the other being the assaulting element.)

Convoys are usually so caught up in the fact they are travelling in a big ol' line that they forget why the heck they are gonna travel that way.

Ask yourself

"WHY AM I IN A CONVOY"?

n00b answer - cuz its realz, or because its cool, or because its black hawk down.

correct answer -

1) because when something threatens the convoy we are all gonna actually supress it (i.e. not stare in that direction, actually fire rounds downrange together so that even if only 1 of us is actually accurate, the sheer amount of fire will tell the enemy "piss off")

2) because only one vehicle is definately going to be taken out by a mine if we enter a minefield

3) because my convoy actually has a destination, we're going from base to point A to build a FB and attack a position etc etc. We're not just gonna drive around like destruction derby being picked off one by one. We're not gonna pile up all our vehicles in one place where its easy for enemies to throw RKGs over the wall...

4) because I need alot of ammo, because I do alot of suppressing; all these vehicles have plenty. The more I suppress, the more the enemy is put on the back foot.

5) because I need plenty of 50cals to destroy enemy vehicles

6) because I need my team to stay coordinated - i.e. all working together rather than each squad having a go one by one.


Convoys fail because people don't actually understand the point to them, they are a tool but you are blunting that tool by not actually performing the convoy role. Protect high value assets with lesser value assets, fire upon any threat even if you aren't in a stable position, if only 30% of your rounds go near that enemy...then that enemy is still gonna be going 'get down!' especially if only 30% of 5 vehicles's rounds are hitting the correct spot.


Lone humvees are only good for doing a recon, i.e. driving someplace with good views, taking some fire, firing back a little bit and then withdrawing to the team position having located enemy positions e.g. location of cache centric weaponry.


The only MAJOR problem with this tactic is that you will lose men without the chance to revive since they died in a vehicle.

Did i hear complicated words like suppressive fire and withdraw? Nope, dont know whats that, but ill sure make a convoy next time!

If people know what theyre doing then its all good, otherwise its just as bad as driving off alone or even worse.

[Pvt.LHeureux]

or because its black hawk down.

Best answer to make a convoy

[PFunk]

Convoys are meant to represent for vehicles the same combined security and support that squad gives to the individual soldier. It fails to function properly for the same reason a squad gets wiped by a lone or pair of better coordinated players.

A convoy is only as smart as the people in it and most people can't be arsed with actually being smart. Most people aren't very smart on foot so stick them in a vehicle and they can't think about covering gaps in the group line of sight, communicating enough to react as a unit when things go wrong, or even picking a smart route.

Coordination of vehicles doesn't even implicitly require a "convoy". Its like formations for infantry. Coordination just means you're operating with the same goal and in roughly mutually supportive distance.

Vehicles that work together do function better, but its harder to get independent squads to actually work together on that level in public games. People just don't tend to like that. THe ones who have a mind to actually do this find it hard to get others to so they just go off on their own.

The other thing is sharing assets. A squad takes more than 1 or 2 vehicles and they're going to be seen as greedy. Proper team wide coordination is not something we typically see in public play regardless of how well everyone is really at teamwork.

In PR teamwork is mostly concerned with the squad and the occasional Squad Leader chatter on the shared mumble channel. Its not really going to fourish except under a Commander who can or is interested in tasking and delineating responisbilities for assets and roles, which many aren't when they are there (speaking of asset and combined arms business).

The unrealism of PR cannot be overcome properly because we're not playing a realistic game. Its a real-ish game. Its a semi-realistic mod seeking to promote over everything else teamwork. Real to life is merely icing on the cake, and should only be really considered when its more effective at winning than other courses of action.

Remember in real life they do things a certain way becuase its the best way (in the opinon of whomever is in charge) possible. In game winners do things the best way possible in the game, and if the game supports realistic behavior then it'll come out as the best way to play. This is basically in most cases not the case mostly thanks to engine limitations and the fact that what makes PR what it is is not derived primarily from realism but from an unrealistic game adapted to better coordinated teamwork.

You want convoys in a realistic sense go play Arma. Thats when it becomes a lot more practical.

[Bringerof_D]

sadly rudd's point is the case for most convoys in game, i find it rare to take part in one that works out unless i'm taking immediate command of it's participants. One good example was the time my squadleader made us convoy at the beginning of the round of INS in Basrah, one logi and 2 rovers. we got hit by gary and lost the logi on the south side of the river just on the west side of the pipeline, seconds later as we regrouped we were engaged by a distant technical from the direction of the refinery. my gunner took him out while i bandaged up from the previous blast, we then ran face first into a convoy of bombcars and a technical or two, a total of 6 vehicles by the bridge on the east side of the pipe. Under my instruction we backed off and crossed over a foot bridge in hopes of cutting off the enemy convoy from running into the slow trickle of armor and transports just coming out the main at that point. sure enough they emerged from the north end of the pipeline. As a driver i directed the second rover to follow my lead and maneuvered to keep the gunners facing towards the contacts while keeping enough distance to avoid being blown up all the while driving kept searching the area and coordinated the gunners of both vehicles. in the end we saved both the rovers and destroyed the 6 vehicle convoy along with an additional supply techie which drove up and tried to smash into us. Kudos to my gunners for staying vigilant the entire time.

the biggest problem is the lack of coordinated security in the convoy, and in most cases you lack flank security from external sources. Even if you have a tank sitting on an adjacent hill watching your convoy they are doing exactly that, watching the convoy when they should be watching elsewhere for enemies. In most cases players also lack the ability to react to a contact. under these circumstances any convoy which comes under attack is doomed to be lost.

key points when organizing a convoy:

1) arcs of fire: Assign areas for gunners and passengers to be keeping an eye on. maximize overlap and remind them to alert everybody if they see ANYTHING.

2) Spacing: dont bunch up your vehicles. distance will be dictated by the ground, for example on an open high way you should be spaced out more than in a thick forest. Keep within range to provide cover for the vehicle ahead of you either by view or by fire.

3) discipline: remind gunners that unless instructed otherwise do not stray from their arcs. it only takes one gunner to turn around and engage a target to leave an entire flank open.

4) actions on contact: DO NOT stop to engage every target, ensure that your drivers will floor the gas and GTFO under any engagement unless you deem yourself to be in a position of advantage and instruct them otherwise.

5) Communication: everybody is looking for stuff, everybody will speak up if they see ANYTHING even if it might be nothing.

as per my example at the top, properly done a convoy is very much worthwhile and is loads of fun, done wrong it's just a death trap for assets.

[SGT.Ice]

Smells like it's time to rig some more roads then.

[Brainlaag]

Look at me, now look at your convoy, now back at me. Bang they all dead.

This.

Convoys are used IRL for a reason, because they work. In PR they are merely a big target and a chance for the enemy to drain some tickets. This is mainly due to the engine and not the players itself. I agree that very few are actually capable of setting up a proper convoy and organize it in a effective fashion but even those that can, when facing an experienced foe, end up as burden for the team.

[Bluedrake42]

yeah... this is dumb.

[billysmall44]

Conveys are used to get places safely and or to get back safely. The whole point of a convoy is to keep from getting involved in engagements.

You also have to think about the game type. If you are playing insurgency there is literally NO use for a convoy. You want to be searching for caches and leave as little of a footprint as possible. Also take in consideration of map design. You don't want to be weaving in and out of buildings constantly on muttrah city with like a 6 vehicle convoy.

Conclusion: Convoys don't work so great in PR