What do you want to see in a Realism Mod?

G.Drew · Post by **G.Drew** » 2006-09-18 16:40

If what u say is true, then id like to see a video of an RPG/SRAW/LAW destroy a M1A2/Challenger2/T-90/Type98 with 1 shot

PlayPR! · Post by **PlayPR!** » 2006-09-18 18:41

Punisher1 wrote: AT Kits Use current AT weapons used largely by current military forces and then make them very deadly. Most AT weapons are one shot one kill.

The only AT weapon I know of that kills a tank in one shot is the US Javelin. (Which would be an awesome, but really unbalanced, addition to the game by the way

) But if I am wrong about that feel free to correct me. But don't make your evidence the RPG, only tanks the RPG could take it in one shot is prolly a few types of WWII era tanks...

I do think that the Special Ops. should be taken out of the game, give the Engineer the C-4 and the Slam, dont they carry way more explosives than one piece of C-4 IRL? But if the Spec. Ops. do stay in the mod, could you skin the M-4 so it has a foregrip on it, like the ones the Special Forces use? Al you would have to do is use the G36Cs animation with a few tweaks to its animation.

Punisher1 · Post by **Punisher1** » 2006-09-19 05:02

Well heres some Ideas for AT:

For one a disposable and or Relaodable system would be good for each side.

For the MEC RPG-7 fits in good for an all purpose weapon. There are many warheads for this weapon some that can pentrate 500mm of steel. Or the RPG-29 is a step up that is on equal grounds as the AT-4. It is better for clearing bunkers.

The U.S. The AT-4 would be a good choice, it does not reload so just toss it out. Defeats 400mm of steel. A player would carry no more than two at the most.

So for the serious Anti tank weapons you have:

M-47 Dragon which is being somewhat phased out but is very common. Defeats 400-500mm of steel

Javelin Antitank Missile which is fire and forget. This is proven to be able to destroy any tank out there. Defeats 600mm+ of steel.

The Kornet would be awkward but effective as the MEC AT system. This is the latest AT weapon out there. While not as effective as the Javelin it's about is good as it gets for the MEC force. Supposed penetration of 1200mm of steel.

http://www.army-technology.com/projects ... ornet1.jpg

TurboGNat · Post by **TurboGNat** » 2006-09-19 13:29

For instance... enemy armor spotted, gotta kill that tank, even if it means I will die. Boom one AT round hits the tank, reload and after round #2 is sent off I die, and strangely enough so does the rocket I fired off. WHY WHY WHY???

Is this a function of BF2 or is it something that can be changed in PR? In all reality the round would not disappear as the life flows out of me.

Punisher1 · Post by **Punisher1** » 2006-09-19 18:55

G.Drew wrote:If what u say is true, then id like to see a video of an RPG/SRAW/LAW destroy a M1A2/Challenger2/T-90/Type98 with 1 shot

Sure I could tell you how to exactly do that.

But if your expecting a huge ball of flame and a a totally destroyed tank it will not happen.

It's all where you hit the tank and use the right munition to do the job.

You could set the tank on fire and or disable it. In that case, the crew bails out or it becomes a mobile bunker that eventually gets pounded to death.

Think about the tanks in question and watch some videos of them up close. While going head on with a tank is suicidal, hitting it from above and the rear is going to do the most damage. So if you have the right munitions, element of surprise, location and tactic you could take one out.

This is why tanks in towns and cities are a very bad idea. This can also be done from hill tops and the like. I have seen a few videos from the Russian/Afgan war that shows ambushes and use of AT missiles on various vehicles.

Lucid Nightmare · Post by **Lucid Nightmare** » 2006-09-22 18:04

I see alot of people complaining about tanks being overpowered.
I think they are quite balanced as it is.
Some of the reasons you may find them hard to destroy is because when you try destroy us (tanker community in general) you either
a) Shoot the AT missile at our frontal armour.
b) You get a spec ops trying to put c4 on us.
c) When we get hit, we have a tendancy to flee and repair. Due to the reason that when our tank dies. We don't get it back for a long time.

Try flanking it and putting an AT missile in the side or rear. If your flanking it, don't do the stupid thing by running straght through its feild of vision. If you can see the tank, chances are, it'll be able to see you.
Just make sure you keep an eye out for its supporting infantry.
If you find yourself getting tank sniped. Find a concealed position and whip out your AT missile.Keep your crosshair on the tank, but dont shoot. Just keep it in your sights. Soon enough, it'll freak and move away from its position.
If you shoot at it, you'll reveal you position and the tank may be able to dodge your missile.

More often than not, most my infantry kills have come from them doing rather stupid things. For instance, running across an open road no less than 50m away from me. I wasn't even hiding. I was sitting smack bang in the middle of the road making a hell of alot of noise with my main cannon and my machine gun.
Seriously though, a little situational awareness will help you live if you encounter one of those armoured behemoths.

Punisher1 · Post by **Punisher1** » 2006-09-23 03:40

Lucid Nightmare wrote:I see alot of people complaining about tanks being overpowered.
I think they are quite balanced as it is.
Some of the reasons you may find them hard to destroy is because when you

c) When we get hit, we have a tendancy to flee and repair. Due to the reason that when our tank dies. We don't get it back for a long time.

This is the main issue, if you have engineer support which there is no such thing as a magic wrench, you can keep a tank going the whole game.

So if there was no magic repair for vehicles the tactics by tankers would be different.

PlayPR! · Post by **PlayPR!** » 2006-09-23 04:27

I think tanks are to under powered, they should be able to kill anything, cept other tanks, in one shot. And there achilles heal would be a one hit kill underbelly, like it used to be, if you can pop around underneath the tanks it should atleast catch on fire...

G.Drew · Post by **G.Drew** » 2006-09-23 11:52

PlayPRMM! wrote:I think tanks are to under powered, they should be able to kill anything, cept other tanks, in one shot. And there achilles heal would be a one hit kill underbelly, like it used to be, if you can pop around underneath the tanks it should atleast catch on fire...

weakness of the M1A2 in-game: rear part of the tracks, next to the grill
its a 2-shot kill
but i think 1 shot with AT rocket/ sabot round to the back grill should at least make the tank catch fire.
other than that:
to kill a tank from the front:
4 tank rounds, 5 rockets

to kill a tank from the side:
3 tank rounds, 4 rockets

Punisher1 · Post by **Punisher1** » 2006-09-23 17:51

G.Drew wrote:weakness of the M1A2 in-game: rear part of the tracks, next to the grill
its a 2-shot kill
but i think 1 shot with AT rocket/ sabot round to the back grill should at least make the tank catch fire.
other than that:
to kill a tank from the front:
4 tank rounds, 5 rockets

to kill a tank from the side:
3 tank rounds, 4 rockets

Man 4-5 rockets!

You are so dead before that would ever happen.

G.Drew · Post by **G.Drew** » 2006-09-23 20:51

all about co-orination, where u hit the tank and the case of cover and concealment
i mean i would rather go round the tank and hit it from behind than shoot 4-5 rockets at it
and anyway, thats about as close as an estimate as i can get in realism

[Lame]_Almighty_Wig · Post by **[Lame]_Almighty_Wig** » 2006-09-24 17:25

Tanks are balanced fine on PRRM, on POE2 Mod they're epically over balance, i quite happily sit there and shoot 3 -6 rockets at a tank and it barely slows down. Long live PRRM!

3cain3 · Post by **3cain3** » 2006-10-04 16:07

For sake of realisim i know why there is no current round count (bullets in clip) but if an animation could be added to check the rounds like you would in real life that would be cool. (maybe modify the reload animation for this and assign some key to it) that would be awesome. BTW no crosshairs is crazy. I love it.

PlayPR! · Post by **PlayPR!** » 2006-10-04 16:11

I really want to see a Styker with the 50 cal for the US, maybe a BMP with 30 MM cannon for MEC, but for China... I never know what to put for China...

3cain3 · Post by **3cain3** » 2006-10-04 16:33

Also, im not sure if this is implemented and i just dont know it, but we need the choice to enter which part of veichle to board (i.e. gunner seat, driver, etc) especially when there is no one driving the dune buggy or like vehicles and we want to jump in the gun seat. Thx

G.Drew · Post by **G.Drew** » 2006-10-04 16:47

3cain3 wrote:For sake of realisim i know why there is no current round count (bullets in clip) but if an animation could be added to check the rounds like you would in real life that would be cool. (maybe modify the reload animation for this and assign some key to it) that would be awesome. BTW no crosshairs is crazy. I love it.

u could do a Red Orchestra style thing when u reload a mag it tells u if its heavy or empty ( not wait that wouldnt work would it)

3cain3 · Post by **3cain3** » 2006-10-04 16:54

G.Drew wrote:u could do a Red Orchestra style thing when u reload a mag it tells u if its heavy or empty ( not wait that wouldnt work would it)

Well thats helpful lol!
nah i think its possible with a reload animation but the clip goes only like 4\5 of the way out of the gun and you can look and see how many bullets you have...maybe need some more detailed animation on the clips but hey, this is PRMM right....

G.Drew · Post by **G.Drew** » 2006-10-04 20:31

the only way to check is count how much bullets u have used (estimate them at least)

Top_Cat_AxJnAt · Post by **Top_Cat_AxJnAt** » 2006-10-04 20:52

I would like to see the removal of blood around the screen when you jeep or vehicle is shot at. I know a detailed hit location diagram is impossible BUT the simple, already present clues of smoke, or flames should be enough really.

The need for an armoured humvee is greater than ever. PR can never achieve high standards in tank or aircraft combat HOWEVEr it can in infantry when compared with other realism shooters - no chance against tank/aircraft sims.

Therefore it would be logical to focus efforts on infantry combat. A major part of this, is light/ heavy wheeled vehicles that provide infantry with both transport of light fire support in form of machine guns.

However the present Jeeps, as most already know, are completely inadiquate at offer protection to occupents and the fire support they offer is substancial, but in many ways to powerfull.

The situation is being made worse by the influx of well designed PR based maps, introduction of many relism changes and most importantly players who are willing to use greater teamwork and tactics.
It has resulted in Jeeps purpose shifting more from transport to defence.

The use of jeeps for transport in area even remotely populated by enemies, results to often in the death of all the occupents.
HOwever there use out side enemies territory is very good, with there ability to carry a whole squad and good speed allowing for quick movement around maps.

But when 70% of a map is populated by enemies it can make it very diffuclt, or near impossible for jeeps to be used for transport purposes. This make jeep on many maps completely redundant for transport purposes.

They also presently have all have a 50cal attached to the top, this is extremely effective when used to defend an area from medium to long range attack. This is also very effective against other jeeps, with a mere 5 ish seconds firing resulting in a smouldering wreck, or 2.
This makes the use of jeeps against jeeps extremely dangerous, and the result is often a huge body count - once 1 jeep is destroyed, enemy jeep kills all infantry that bailed out seconds before.

I give up THE FACT IS that players are getting smarter, new L-AT kit will mean even more destroyed jeeps and using them for transporting peeps around in enemy territory is far to dangerous. PR is about INFANTRY vs Infantry adn JEEPS PLAY A CRUCIAL ROLE IN IT But the present ones DOnt, they mearly acts spwn rapers, or cause BOTTLE NECKs of constant 50cal fire!! COntary to what many people think - Re-modeling jeeps shoudl be very high on the DEVs list of things to do becuase they play AND WILL ALWAYS PLAY a indistpensiable and vital role to PR GAMEPLAY

I would happily not see a jaguar, tornadoe or whole new set of chinese weaposn for a year, if the transport jeeps (or atleast the Humvee and aChinese one) where re-modeled for .5 or just as soon aspossible. THIS IS ABOUT GAMEPLAY Not "cos it is cool, or fun or whatever", gameplay MUST COME 1st!!

thank you for readign *sighs*, i have said my peace *goes back into corner, rocking gently back and forwed*

Post by **BrokenArrow** » 2006-10-04 21:48

While I agree that PR won't me able to match tank or flight sims, one of the best things about the BF2 series is the integration of those vehicles.

As for remodeling the wheeled transport vehicles a humvee is still a humvee no matter how many times you remodel it.

Pouring .50cal fire into another vehicle is bound to leave it wreaked so I don't see the point there, the danger of having a vehicle destroyed makes it more important to be careful with it. Also what should the result of soldiers v. .50cal rounds be? Happiness? If my humvee gets wasted by .50cal fire just as I get out I am either A) turning and hoping to God that my rounds get past the shield in the turret or B) running for cover as fast as my legs can carry me.

Also: If you have read Black Hawk Down, you know that the armor in BF2 humvees is much more helpful against small arms fire than it was for the Rangers in Somalia. It does damage the humvee itself but it doesn't lance through the sides to hit those riding in it.

Use of these transport vehicles against one another SHOULD be incredibly dangerous for both and usually fatal for one of them, if you're in a lone humvee and you go to where it is 70% populated by enemies you SHOULD be having a hard time getting to where you want, and if you decide to use one as a defensive asset then that .50 cal on the roof SHOULD be a very good asset to your defence because bullets (especially ones that big) should be EXTREMELY detrimental to an enemy troop's well being.

What do you want to see in a Realism Mod?

How come when I die my last fired round/nade Dies with me???