Running 1.0 Deviation on Current Servers?

[CanuckCommander]

Now that the test files are public, is it possible to allow current servers to run those files as a mod like DB mod? The new deviation is much much much better than the current one. I know it is only WIP but it would already be a huge improvement for gameplay if servers are allowed to run it until we get 1.0.

PROS
-Improve current gameplay, bring more players in
-Allow for a bigger test sample over a longer period of time so that the final version would be better

CONS
-Players have to download and install client files [but this could be solved like Anders Sound Mod's installer having an ON/OFF button]
-It is WIP stuff, not representative of final product

[rPoXoTauJIo]

The problem that not all weapons done with new system.
So it limiting maps that you can run on server.

But i'm sure that answer will be NO, devs like to say NO

[BloodyDeed]

Not allowed.
These files are not open for public use and work in progress.
If you experience a server running these send me a PM immediately.

[hobbnob]

Not surprising really, could we at least know whether the new deviation is still going to be in 1.0 after the feedback that came in from the event?

[Jolly]

I am just wondering about the feedback.
Really wish to see how those guys make comments about it.

[Rhino]

We are hoping to implement some of the deviation changes into the PR:F release for long term gameplay testing of them as well as many devs wanting to play with them asap

[Nugiman]

I am just wondering about the feedback.
Really wish to see how those guys make comments about it.

Feedback was given via private message. I guess its not for public.

[Rudd]

Not surprising really, could we at least know whether the new deviation is still going to be in 1.0 after the feedback that came in from the event?

I'm sure its ok for me to tell you that there will probably be another test with some tweaked values. However the general direction of the deviation test was where it was supposed to go.

[CanuckCommander]

We are hoping to implement some of the deviation changes into the PR:F release for long term gameplay testing of them as well as many devs wanting to play with them asap

Why limit it to PR:F Why not do an open beta-test or mini-update (pr 0.9 to allow select servers to play with them asap? First person shooters are all about gun play, and this deviation update would be a huge improvement to gameplay that would boost the player base in preparation for the incoming 1.0 release.

I don't see any negative consequences of this and with a good installer, the files would take seconds to download and install. Servers can volunteer to enter the beta or not, kind of like DBMOD. You can even give a number to the deviation updates like 1.0 and update it as you guys change the values so that people will know if they are up to date.

My feelings after playing during the test session is that "why isn't this implemented immediately? This is such a huge improvement to gameplay." I want to stress the word "improvement" here because DBMOD is controversial because not all players agree with all the changes. However, it is almost universally (at least in majority) accepted that deviation as it currently is in game is unrealistic and bad for gameplay, so updating this CORE aspect of a game that revolves around guns is of the utmost urgency and importance. Most players would be happy to have this small but significant update while Devs work on 1.0. It would probably also greatly appease the impatience of players waiting for an update that is almost long overdue.

[rPoXoTauJIo]

Servers can volunteer to enter the beta or not, kind of like DBMOD.

DBMOD = Python changes(server-side)
1.0 Deviation system = Objects changes(client-side)
Feel the difference.

So we just have to wait for 1.0, i'm pretty sure that it will be coolest thing in world.

[K_Rivers]

The deviation changes are still a work in progress, they will be release when they are released like all things.
Good things come to those who wait.

[CanuckCommander]

The deviation changes are still a work in progress, they will be release when they are released like all things.
Good things come to those who wait.

I'm not begging you to release it, so you don't have to be condescending or baby-talk me. I'm making a rational argument to explain why releasing and testing it on a wider scale would benefit the work, and the quality of the mod CURRENTLY, regardless of what or when 1.0 will be released.

[Rhino]

Why limit it to PR:F Why not do an open beta-test or mini-update (pr 0.9 to allow select servers to play with them asap?

Why? We are releasing PR:F with or without deviation changes, all the weapons in it are all pretty much "new" and as such, easy enough to add the new deviation settings too with very little extra fuss on top of what we where already planning to do with the PR:F release.

Having a separate optional add-on like for the testing, but having it running both at the same time as normal 973 would split up the community and do more damage than good (seen it happen many times in the past, PR:V's Beta 2 update is a good recent example of it, but not quite the same effect as what this would do).

Doing a PR v0.98 release would also bring in many new problems, and require quite a lot more work than what we have put into making this test happen which I can tell you now, no dev has time to put towards sorting out, especially not the ones that would be required to make it happen. We all (both devs and you guys) are far better off waiting for the v1 release for the big overhaul of deviation, which we can perfect from these beta tests (including PR:F's POC run with the new deviation) + get all the cool new assets and features with it at the same time.

[BloodyDeed]

No, we're not adding another seperate installer (think about mappack, mumble, vietnam already).
And no, we don't do a 0.98. That would be faar to much work, packing a release is several weeks of work, that would just delay 1.0 even further.

[Rudd]

Remember lads, you only played two maps, and the server barely filled thanks to certain testers spending five minutes bitching in all chat then leaving instead of actually playing.

We're tweaking, another public test will go up (perhaps more smoothly than before without issues like no teamswap) and we'll get more feedback.

Perhaps after two more tests deviation will be ready to go, but honestly as the guy who has been going fricking insane staring at these numbers...it ain't ready.

[doop-de-doo]

4 werdz: Peishint berr iz payshunt

[CanuckCommander]

Why? We are releasing PR:F with or without deviation changes, all the weapons in it are all pretty much "new" and as such, easy enough to add the new deviation settings too with very little extra fuss on top of what we where already planning to do with the PR:F release.

Having a separate optional add-on like for the testing, but having it running both at the same time as normal 973 would split up the community and do more damage than good (seen it happen many times in the past, PR:V's Beta 2 update is a good recent example of it, but not quite the same effect as what this would do).

Doing a PR v0.98 release would also bring in many new problems, and require quite a lot more work than what we have put into making this test happen which I can tell you now, no dev has time to put towards sorting out, especially not the ones that would be required to make it happen. We all (both devs and you guys) are far better off waiting for the v1 release for the big overhaul of deviation, which we can perfect from these beta tests (including PR:F's POC run with the new deviation) + get all the cool new assets and features with it at the same time.

Alright, I am extremely satisfied with this answer. Bloodydeed, also good answer. You guys should spell it out like this more often. These answers are much much better than the usual wink emoticons and "when it's ready" responses because these are actually constructive. Thank you. I will look forward to the next test.

P.S. you would get more testers if the test had been "open" and not closed from the beginning. As I said above, more transparency actually helps yours/our causes. Don't underestimate the community. We are smart and understanding people; we won't mistaken WIP stuff for final work, so don't worry about having your work misrepresented. This of course is a two way street and would work ONLY if you, DEVs, also approach us with openness rather than mysteriousness.

[Arnoldio]

Even people who applied, applied for the cool factor and not for testing... so we were kinda short on numbers. Open public would be even less serious i believe.

[CanuckCommander]

Even people who applied, applied for the cool factor and not for testing... so we were kinda short on numbers. Open public would be even less serious i believe.

No, quite the opposite. It was exclusive, so people applied for the cool factor. Make it inclusive and more people would come to play rather than seeing the novelty then leaving. Something like deviation needs to be PLAYED not "tested," unless there are bugs of course. Other than that, you can't tell how it's going to go unless a lot of people play the game normally for a longer duration of time.

Take the current deviation for example, I'm sure it was "fine" when Devs "tested" it prior to .97. However, it has become clear after lots of play time with the general population of PR, not just exclusive testers, that the current system is not ideal. So maybe it is time the PR team become more receptive to OPEN beta tests rather than in-house tests, because we the community know who you guys are and what great things you guys are capable of.

You guys have nothing to prove to us, so why not include all of us, the entire community, in the testing process? PR is not a product. It is a community and team effort. I would rather have many fixes than 1 big release after a huge slow development process. In my opinion, the time between each PR release is a "TEST" period anyway, so why not let more people into the smaller test sessions.

Summary: More transparency of PR development. Make the development process more inclusive.

Do you think that people who actually play and love PR will care or be misled by WIP stuff? PR is not a commercial product; it is a community product.

[Hunt3r]

Meh, the devs just need to outline what they intend to achieve for deviation with 1.0, once it's released people can play and figure out whether or not the changes did what they were supposed to and file the proper bug reports if it didn't.