Apc ammo

kangaroo · Post by **kangaroo** » 2012-09-22 14:16

Why is it that most APCs in game have less than 200 rounds of main armament ammo but the American APCs have more? To me it just seems to be abit imbalanced with things like the british warrior and the american bradley being simillar in size and gun power but having significantly differences in their ammo holding capabilities. The LAV and russian btrs with 30mm cannons are also another example of this.

Hunt3r · Post by **Hunt3r** » 2012-09-23 09:33

Vehicles are equipped with IRL combat loads. The Bradley is damn near stuffed with ammo, that's why it has so much. There's autocannon rounds literally mingled with troops, with most of it being under the floor.

The Warrior IFV has something like 3 round clips for the cannon and no power vertical traverse. There's maybe 15 clips of ready ammo, all of which has to be manually loaded by the TC or gunner. I honestly don't know how much is in the hull, but it probably isn't much either, which is why the Warrior gets less ammo.

The LAVs are designed with this idea of reloading the autocannon, Russian autocannons are hilariously overpowered and unrealistic so ignore them anyways.

Conman51 · Post by **Conman51** » 2012-09-23 09:42

Hunt3r wrote: Russian autocannons are hilariously overpowered and unrealistic so ignore them anyways.

What? you want to explain that?
Most of the Russian auto cannons are bigger and have higher ROFs IRL. So i dont see what you mean.

On topic: Its realistic combat loads, not perfectly symmetrical load outs.

samogon100500 · Post by **samogon100500** » 2012-09-23 10:26

Hunt3r wrote: Russian autocannons are hilariously overpowered and unrealistic so ignore them anyways.

2A42 have firerate up to 600rpm(2A72(BMP3/BTR-80A) only 300).M242 - only 200(In PR - 150 I guess).Of course,they can shoot up to 500rpm,but I never saw It in use,even in a youtube.Rarden have only 90rpm.

About caliber.Nothing to say...

25x137 looking so small,that 30x165.

Only 1 thing matter - due slow RoF NATO cannons pretty accurate.While Russian one,on high RoF have wasting of accuracy,but single/burst shots have same accuracy.

Arnoldio · Post by **Arnoldio** » 2012-09-23 12:43

Dat chrome blue tip. *_*

Hunt3r · Post by **Hunt3r** » 2012-09-23 21:08

Conman51 wrote:What? you want to explain that?
Most of the Russian auto cannons are bigger and have higher ROFs IRL. So i dont see what you mean.

On topic: Its realistic combat loads, not perfectly symmetrical load outs.

No Russian autocannon has APFSDS, most vehicles don't even have APDS.

ComradeHX · Post by **ComradeHX** » 2012-09-23 23:03

Hunt3r wrote:No Russian autocannon has APFSDS, most vehicles don't even have APDS.

30-mm APFSDS-T M929
Maximum Aimed Range (m) 2,500
Max Effective Range (m)
Day 2,000+
Night INA
Tactical AA Range 4,000
Armor penetration (mm) 55 (RHA) at 1,000 m, 45 at 2,000 m

BMP-3 Fighting Vehicle

You were saying?

Russian IFV is best IFV.

Hunt3r · Post by **Hunt3r** » 2012-09-24 02:35

ComradeHX wrote:BMP-3 Fighting Vehicle

You were saying?

Russian IFV is best IFV.

Stop with the "Russian equipment is best" circlejerk, that's made by Mecar of Belgium, Russian ammo has model names like 3UBR8, not Mxxx.

http://www.mecar.be/data/115685648930mmM929.pdf

Let's stick to what countries really get, not this fantasy "what could be" stuff.

http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/t ... 580/3.html

Oh, and the 30mm autocannon on ground vehicles don't use 300/600 RPM fire rates, because that's a hilarious waste of ammo when IRL 3-4 penetrating shots can kill a vehicle. A single penetration is likely to either hit crew (mission kill), ammo(likely k-kill), or vital equipment like power traverse and powertrain(mission kill).

ComradeHX · Post by **ComradeHX** » 2012-09-24 02:49

[PHP][/PHP]

Hunt3r wrote:Stop with the "Russian equipment is best" circlejerk, that's made by Mecar of Belgium, Russian ammo has model names like 3UBR8, not Mxxx.

http://www.mecar.be/data/115685648930mmM929.pdf

Let's stick to what countries really get, not this fantasy "what could be" stuff.

Fixing the firing rates - SimHQ Forums

Oh, and the 30mm autocannon on ground vehicles don't use 300/600 RPM fire rates, because that's a hilarious waste of ammo when IRL 3-4 penetrating shots can kill a vehicle. A single penetration is likely to either hit crew (mission kill), ammo(likely k-kill), or vital equipment like power traverse and powertrain(mission kill).

Forums ? Air Combat & Civil Aviation ? EECH / EEAH ? Fixing the firing rates

Lol.

I said Russian IFV; is that what you think is made in Belgium?
Russian cannot use Belgian-made ammo FOR Russian weapon???

You said there is no APFSDS round for Russian autocannon; you were proven to be wrong.

And so what is wrong with rate of fire in-game? Obviously 3-4 penetrating rounds do not kill.

Hunt3r · Post by **Hunt3r** » 2012-09-24 04:59

The problem is that no one uses it.

And yes, it is a problem when the Bradley only gets a 200 RPM fire rate. The BMP-3 is basically guaranteed to always win against the Bradley if the Bradley isn't just sitting there ready to fire a TOW, if a BMP-3 gets the drop on a Bradley the Bradley is dead. If a Bradley gets the drop on a BMP-3, it's fully possible that either the Bradley sits there like a duck while the TOW loads and dies, or fires the autocannon only to lose because it's fire rate is too slow and damage too little.

40mmrain · Post by **40mmrain** » 2012-09-24 05:28

I just got done playing with the puma on lashkar, we needed to reload HE at least 5 times. Ammo is used from time to time. Youre only thinking about combined arms tons of armour maps like kashan

ComradeHX · Post by **ComradeHX** » 2012-09-24 05:40

Hunt3r wrote:The problem is that no one uses it.

IRL maybe if Russians decide to fight against USA and/or GB, they will use it.

Also, most of time BMP-3 is on MEC vs. USA or GB. MEC have T-72 which are inferior to their western counterparts due to reload speed as far as I remember.

BMP-3 > Bradley is fine asymmetrical balance.

Hunt3r · Post by **Hunt3r** » 2012-09-24 06:36

ComradeHX wrote:IRL maybe if Russians decide to fight against USA and/or GB, they will use it.

Also, most of time BMP-3 is on MEC vs. USA or GB. MEC have T-72 which are inferior to their western counterparts due to reload speed as far as I remember.

BMP-3 > Bradley is fine asymmetrical balance.

IRL maybe if Russians decide to fight Western powers, they wouldn't be buying ammo from a western company and they would keep their BMP-3 at the realistic 250 RPM fire rate?

Of course, that's continuous, but I highly doubt that Russian armor doctrine would dictate wasting ammo with highly inaccurate bursts.

ComradeHX · Post by **ComradeHX** » 2012-09-24 06:55

Hunt3r wrote:IRL maybe if Russians decide to fight Western powers, they wouldn't be buying ammo from a western company and they would keep their BMP-3 at the realistic 250 RPM fire rate?

Of course, that's continuous, but I highly doubt that Russian armor doctrine would dictate wasting ammo with highly inaccurate bursts.

IRL Russians have plenty of tungsten to make ammo out of. They do not feel a need for them.

Also, in PR, BMP-3 does not fire at 10 rounds per second, more like 5.

samogon100500 · Post by **samogon100500** » 2012-09-24 12:04

ComradeHX wrote:I said Russian IFV; is that what you think is made in Belgium?
Russian cannot use Belgian-made ammo FOR Russian weapon???

English-made sources never tell you trust.

That kind of ammo exist,but if it uses - maybe in countries,that have lot of Russian caliber cannons.Like India(But am not sure,that curently).

Hunt3r wrote:No Russian autocannon has APFSDS, most vehicles don't even have APDS.

Dat bullshit.3UBR6 - APBC-T,3UBR8 - APDS.Don't tell anything,that you don't know please.

Let's start from things,that you don't know.Do you know,that automatic cannons as IFV weapon,were created in Afghanistan war,as anti-infantry weapon first,not as anti-vehicle?That because SPG-9(Didn't remember signature for vehicle variant),mounted on BMP-1,doesn't gives enough firepower in a mountains.And same reason,why maximum elevation angle to high on all fighting vehicles,with automatic cannons.

Holywar - what better US or Russian,I may say - tactics wins.Those,who can use their weapon potential - he will win.

Stemplus · Post by **Stemplus** » 2012-09-24 15:59

Guys stop your USA vs RUS war and get back to the real topic. In my opinion everything exept the 30mm MTLB has enough ammo. Maybe exept the scimitar, but that one is a recon vehicle so it's fine. The beast is ok on muttrah, but on other maps like kashan or burning sands you spend more time returning to base than actualy killing the enemy.

saXoni · Post by **saXoni** » 2012-09-24 16:30

Stemplus wrote:Guys stop your USA vs RUS war and get back to the real topic. In my opinion everything exept the 30mm MTLB has enough ammo. Maybe exept the scimitar, but that one is a recon vehicle so it's fine. The beast is ok on muttrah, but on other maps like kashan or burning sands you spend more time returning to base than actualy killing the enemy.

The MTLB's (and every other IFV/APC for that matter) main role isn't to drive around constantly killing enemies, it's to transport and provide support/cover for the infantry.

Souls Of Mischief · Post by **Souls Of Mischief** » 2012-09-24 16:39

^Which, sadly, doesn't happen in PR, most of the time.

saXoni · Post by **saXoni** » 2012-09-24 16:54

Well the Devs have done their job by not having a great amount of ammo available, so it's all up to the players now.

izoiva · Post by **izoiva** » 2012-09-24 17:05

saXoni wrote:The MTLB's main role isn't to drive around constantly killing enemies, it's to transport and provide support/cover for the infantry.

MTLB was newer design to be an APC(Red Army has a BTR series for that role). It's just a swimming truck with PKT or NSVT for selfdefense.
It were designed to be an artillery tractor or a transport truck(like Ural-4320).

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