Maps to be removed

[40mmrain]

(hoping for objective-based gameplay between conventional factions one day, like what was seen in ET:QW).

rhino is way ahead of you

Cant say I agree with archer. It's alright, and it's one of the two maps that will actually have canadian forces. Nothing wrong with having a map set in the past. I mean, a newer CF vs. Talib map would be sweet, but don't push your luck, heh.

Also, I've had some decent games on qwai. One way to get around the problem, if it is one, of the standoff over the river is helicopters. I don't know, theres still that one fording area in the north that makes for easy crossing.

[Lange]

Fail to see how Burning Sands is even being mentioned in this thread. It's one of PR's absolute best maps right now, especially in that both infantry and vehicles are effective on it.

Karbala is just a really outdated map and feels like the urban cornmaze of death - very linear. Very few, if any, points of interest and visually extremely bland. Could probably be balanced but I think it would be better removed. War in Iraq's over, too.

I've never enjoyed Qwai River. It doesn't hold up visually with the current maps and I feel like most games end being a rather boring Mexican standoff across the banks of the river. The topography also feels unnatural IMO.

Basrah also suffers from a lack of interesting places to fight and is visually dated. Most games boil down to the British sitting out in the desert picking their bums and taking potshots at insurgents and the insurgents sitting around picking their bums and waiting for the British to come into the city so they can shoot at them. Again, the War in Iraq's over.

Kashan is a classic but needs a visual update. I also think some points of interest on the ridge wouldn't go amiss and neither would some changes to the bunker complexes, just to keep things interesting (infantry gameplay on the map has become pretty stale).

Jabal needs some changes; maybe a road running from the West Beach to the dam. The dam complex might benefit from a few more buildings to fight over too.

Barracuda needs thicker jungle like the stuff on Tad Sae.

Ramiel might benefit from a visual change (making it a night map might work).

Korengal is visually superior to most other maps and I think could be made to work if the positions of each sides bases were changed.

Archer feels a bit like Qwai (weird topography). Also, Canadians are no longer engaged in combat in Afghanistan.

TL;DR verison -

Remove -
Qwai
Karbala
Basrah

Visually Update -
Barracuda
Kashan
Ramiel
Archer

Rebalance -
Korengal
Jabal

A few night conversions would also be appreciated for the sake of making old maps feel fresh again. One or two new gamemodes would also hugely benefit the game (hoping for objective-based gameplay between conventional factions one day, like what was seen in ET:QW).

Had to point out that your just saying to remove maps because their is no more Iraq war in real life? So what? Its a hell of a lot more realistic than most rediculous fictional scenarios in PR (IDF vs Russia invasion? enough said). I think its great that there's some maps to at least attempt to simulate the Iraq war being one of the most recent and significant conflicts in a long time. I am of the personal opinion there should be a lot more focus in the mod of conventional vs unconventional but this thread is not about that and is for another discussion. Just wierd to me you said something being done in real life was justification for a map removal. Otherwise you did have some good points.

With more and more content coming into the mod I feel some maps may be just deadweight like Karbala, but I still feel like Karbala plays much better than Korengal even still. Interesting a lot of people have shown love in this thread for what i thought publically would of considered a hated map.

Kashan is just **** if you play infantry and really needs some changes to improve that area. Not just that but it can be a terrible experience unless your team has a lot of coordination as I feel is the case with many of the big 4K AAS maps. Not just that but the bunkers are the only way to really fight as infantry anyway but are still really exposed and infantry can be raped by armor or CAS in the bunkers or especially outside easily destroying the FOB(which is hard to maintain due to this) and your SOL without a spawn. Someone who pointed out that the only way to really play is sit in the bunker setup defenses in the bunker and watch the entrances for someone to come because of the reasonable inability to do anything else is right, it seems that way when I always play and just is pretty narrow and boring. This map is now on my "disconnect when loading or only stay in for a new map" list due to it just being intolerable to me personally now.

As far as Qwai river goes, I find it to be average gameplay wise. It can actually be pretty action packed and focused due to its smaller size along with having assets which is a bit rare for PR. It is not without its problems but I do enjoy INF has good gameplay on this map along with a balance of assets like I said. One of the biggest problems sometimes is the size and is hard to cross the river due to lack of cover and limited access, and that sometimes things can be a bit too focused because of its smaller size. However I find it alot less flawed than several of the maps in the mod.

On a different note, a community mapper did take the liberty of improving Al Basrah but the DEVS never did anything to consider it when I know they have to be aware how Basrah has aged and the problems facing it. Any insight anyone?

[Pronck]

I have made some "blueprints" with paint what they COULD update. I am not saying that they must do it, but if they want to restore in the map into their old glory or whatever like that, this could help them in my opinion. Every picture has some explanation in the bottom to make sure you understand it, however it is different from map to map since I didn't remember the colors and I was lazy to use the same. I am not making the maps or updating it. But if some people use this, I will explain the changes.

Al-Basrah V2

To make the map more fun and playable in my opinion I wanted to see a more defend-able city and village. This means that I would like to see more non-destroy able buildings in the village, basements for the caches, some small ditches and trenches for cover, tunnels for save routes and resupply routes like many insurgents faction used in Iraq (search on g00gle they know how to shovel).

Besides that I wanted extra buildings, villages and a road that allows more cache locations, more ambush positions and more cover. It will increase the play-ability of the map and it will use more ground since lots of ground are almost never used.

As an example the village in A10. It is mainly there for some ambushes since the road there is extremely valuable for armored vehicles. Now it is only used to travel and there is no way you can ambush up there, the road and villages make it way more "play-able" which means that you use more space the map offers.

I also chose to have more height differences in the desert where you can see the orange squares. This so the BLUFOR has more cover for their FOBs, and so you can have some firefights their without suicide attacks. It also allows the insurgents to ambush the much used armor the BLUFOR has on this map.

Karbala V2

This map needs a huge overhaul to make it fun and play-able for both sides. The current map is only fun for the BLUFOR CAS and armor on average rounds. The changes I chose for will turn sides and make it way more fun for the infantry to have some hard fights. We need a feeling that the city is one big fortress in the Insurgents favor, but to prevent the map of being lop-sided I chose to only fortify 3/4 of the city instead of 4/4.

We'll start at the red squares. These house are shot down / blown up and some of the houses in these squares are still standing. The houses are there for more cover, ambush positions, cache locations (not the one near the US main) and to make sure more of the map is used (no more bold sand spaces!). The houses in A11/A12 will make the fight harder near the factory area (which needs also a update) and will allow the insurgents to have more air cover to some degree.

The blue squares mean lots of extra cover, especially for the B4/5 Compound and the extra buildings added to it. The mosque will get a market in it to have more cover for caches. The mosque itself will also be enter-able and a tunnel behind the building will allow you to move to the next house blocks.

The factory area in I9 has an update to give a more Iraqi factory feeling and also to prevent 1337 armor rape from the south. Trash piles and shipping containers will give more cover and some close quarter fights for the infantry.

The oases will allow more growth to be put around it and it will same a small village focused around the oasis. This also to use more of the map.

Now the school building, this will be changed in a fortress. You will have small shooting holes in wall if possible, trenches and foxholes around it and a tunnel going to the village west of it. This village will be updated with 2 extra lines of houses with an alleyway between. So you have more cover from the air. The house block near the bridge will allow you to have more cover and cache locations.

Korengal V2

This map will be hardcore fighting every minute for every inch or centimeter. A major overhaul and a extended valley will allow more space for FOBs, space to use air-asset such as an Hellfire Kiowa and a Black Hawk. Of course this is still a huge question but the idea is very awesome in my opinion just like the ideas above.

To safe some work to re-scape all the hills I want to suggest tracks alongside the mountains to allow some more foot patrols.

I haven't told you everything about it, but it are just some ideas I put together. If you have any questions ask them.

[YankeeSamurai]

I agree that Ramiel needs a makeover. In terms of layout it works fine, but the aesthetics are just plain dull. And it always annoyed me that although it's an urban map, there are very few enterable buildings.

[godfather_596]

I wish there was an ins map with nothing but heavy urban fighting in it. As for unbalanced maps I find karbala a disaster. I mean when the cache spawns in the middle of nowhere it is not even worth defending it. There is just no way to blow up any enemy vehicles in the desert (which is most of the map) and it is pretty hard even in the city. As for korengal I hate having those damn humvees parked in US main and blowing my head off as taliban it's just gay. As for attacking caches I find it quite difficult but possible but still I think it is at quite a bit unbalanced since Bluefor has few advantages in terms of firepower as well as the fact that fights happen mostly within the effective range of unscoped taliban weapons. I would like to mention that I find barracuda unbalanced since ive never won a single match between around the 10 I have played. Those pesky hueys are hell and they just don't blow up.

[Vicious302]

I'm not even gonna read all the responses, just gonna say Korengal is an awesome map and if you don't know how to build a fob and maintain it then your a noob. When I do mortars I go north right out of main, I set up TWO fobs, one west, one east, sometimes I even do three fobs up north. The next thing I do is check all the compounds and caves for unknown caches. If you hop right on mortars you deserve to be overran. IRL no fob would be set up without securing the area around it. So allowing yourself to be overran is your own doing. Secondly if you need UAV to do mortars, your already a big FAIL. just target the cache locations and keep pounding them. Korengal was a big fail before the respawnable logi but now that there is logis, there is really no excuse, just players that suck big donkey **** trying to blame it on the map. How to defend on Korengal: Arty IEDS, How to attack on Korengal: C4. How to build fobs on Korengal: Keep building them everywhere and defend them when they are attacked.

[40mmrain]

God post Bronk, yes.

Adding more to basrah and karbala's outer city would really improve the undetailed, and easy parts of the map. I would imagine doing so is easier than making a whole new map itself. Perhaps a mapper is up for it..

in ramiel there are very few enterable buildings.

yeah this was always a bother. YOu absolutely NEED a rope on that map to operate as a marksman, too. More T buildings, ladders and such would be nice.

[missinglink]

Korengal needs a helo for us, either attack heli utility heli or both! also is there anywhy you guys could make the winter mappack maps come with the patch download? there was a really epic map 'barentz invasion' that got lost because it wasnt standard issue!!

to bad no one plays the winter pack barentz is the only map where i dont crash helis due to lag

[NuclearBanane]

JUST SKIP OVER THIS MESSAGE IF YOUR GOING TO ARGUE MY OPINION.

Korengal:

Well for korengal we could most likely make it into a 2km or 4km map to allow for a US main base which would allow for safe spawning in and a place to trans copters or ATT choppers if desired to spawn and plan. Having a outpost which is a place to setup a fob.

Lets face it the outpost is the size of what military strategist would consider a FOB anyways. Why not make it realistic in that sense as its definitely not fit for a main operating base as its prone to attack which is normal for actual FOBs in Afghanistan.

This would also mean that only organized squads of US could get out to the combat and the taliban could do some bush waking without always being in a combat environment which is why people hate korengal as its just a constant firefight.

Granted some people love the constant element of danger however it just calls for call of duty like gameplay which shamefully enough is what PR .9x as a whole feels like to veteran players.

Karbala:

The reason why karbala doesn't play nice anymore is the ever changing assets on the map for the US and the constant reinforcement of the INSURGENT team.

I hate to sounds sour but like I said to veteran players ( NOT ALL ) the fact that the US have a cake walk now makes this map feel dead and pub friendly.

I loved the old karbala where good insurgents made the US team scared of using their assets aggressively and unsuspecting insurgents getting caught off guard by CAS strike, snipers, US squads and Stryker fire.

I'm sorry but the TANK must go.

As for the PR standard, I think that went out the window with .9 making all the maps feel like a death-match instead of a military operation.

I guess this sounds more like I'm given up on PR, well thats partially true
~Nuke

[KiloJules]

Korengal Skirmish on TG was the first map of PR I ever played after installing!
So removing it would be really sad for me!

FOBs are not really needed on 1km maps (except for mortars maybe...if you need them)
The terrain is a bit over the top I give you that but in general this is what all hills in PR should look like imo.

I have been sleeping outside on the ground so many times in my life and I have never ever found a hill that is like the hills are in PR. Never. They always have "micro terrain" so to speak. Small holes, small bumps, rocks sticking out, etc. So if everything Korengal needed to be adjusted so the hills wouldn't be impossible to climp up but still hard to!! Like removing some of the "noise".

The feeling when you are busy getting your men up a hill and suddenly get ambushed and then use the the ups and downs for cover, return fire, etc...oh my! Beautiful map as well!

------------------

Karbala, I would basically agree although I would always go with the "V2" variant. These maps contain many hours of work and why not put in some more to keep it instead of waisting it all? OC permission needs to be checked, someone needs to do it etc. but I guess having it would still be better.

------------------

Ramiel got to be my favorite INS map and I don't see anything really wrong with it. Have played it many, many times, enjoying it on both factions, great map. OC I am aware that it looks a bit like an american suburb from the sky (the grid I mean)

[Rudd]

God post Bronk, yes.

Adding more to basrah and karbala's outer city would really improve the undetailed, and easy parts of the map. I would imagine doing so is easier than making a whole new map itself. Perhaps a mapper is up for it..



yeah this was always a bother. YOu absolutely NEED a rope on that map to operate as a marksman, too. More T buildings, ladders and such would be nice.

More is not always better chaps.

There's a couple of quite easy things I'd add to the map, such as overgrowth to the riverside. But tbh, Basrah is a good experience all around. the 32 layer in particular is a favourite of mine.

But if you wanna have feedback on improving certain maps in that way, I would suggest having a separate thread. The thread title is more....destructive.

[40mmrain]

true, this thread is about removing maps, so we should make a "needs update" thread somewhere else.

[Pronck]

Should I make a suggestion or at the feedback section? Anyway I can only do it this afternoon....or tomorrow.

[[KOR]Frag_Out]

Yeah, those are the worst maps in PR.. I totally agree with this post

[Pronck]

Smells like post whoring.

[40mmrain]

not really something to worry about.

Feel free to make your own thread, though your suggestions are quite rigorous, perhaps you'd be willing to try and do this yourself..

[Pvt.LHeureux]

Korengal needs to be redone as a 2km map.

[Sebi330]

+1 for korengal. I would like to point out that much of korengal vallys terrain is somewhat buggy. Sometime you are stuck in a in an impossible cone in the ground and you have to sucide or your entire sq gets shot by BLUFOR while it trys to get you out.

I think karbala could actually be good if the desert would be more like ramiel ( more hilly ) so that the insurgents have more possbilitys to hide and intercept incoming forces. Also , the complex in the northwestern part of the city ( the destructable one ) would need some taller buildings to hide hideouts better or , even better, completly undestroyable ones.

[simeon5541]

Why removing any map,
they just maybe need some fixing.
I would like to see 8 km Kashan remake one day . . .

[Brainlaag]

My 2 cents on Korengal is that yes, the US gets fucking raped. However, I think some of the best firefights I've ever had in PR have happened on Korengal. Do the cave caches suck? Yep. Do the US have no chance at making FOBs? Yep. However, even if it's lopsided, it's FUN. Nothing in PR has topped some of the firefights I've had along the river as the US pushed towards a cache. As long as the map can provide decent combat, it's not detracting from the mod.

This, very much.