[R-COM]LITOralis.nMd wrote:32 Blufor, 68 Insurgents.
Insurgents can only spawn with civilian or officer kit.
Insurgents ONLY GET 32 pick up kits spread out around the map,
It'll be like the Russians in Stalingrad, Insurgents must pick up the kits off the dead.
Otherwise the Insurgents can go play as civilians.
This is not a way to promote playing this game mode, by having a limited amount of weapons you exclude many people from the fight. And as far as I know this is focused around fire-fights etc. What you want is to create a more realistic way to represent asymmetrical-warfare in PR as of now the insurgency game mode still lacks some aspects and has some major flaws.
Kits
I think the way to give kits is like the Taliban system. Since most of the maps with this game mode must be with BLUFOR vs. Taliban this is the system to use and go with. However the kits in my opinion need a slight overhaul. For example the regular "warrior" kit should only carry one type of grenade. And the stinger should be removed or either nerfed / tweaked. The tandem RPG should also be removed to give the BLUFOR firepower more chance. However! There should be 2 more engineer kits to increase the IED tread. Or maybe pick-up kits like in Op. Archer.
Bases and supplies
I think every base in BLUFOR hands should have a spawn point that is overrun when there are enemies in a 20mtr circle around it. However to build any deployables you still crates. I think every base should at least have a few mounted LMGs and maybe some pre-buiilt or mounted HMGs. Besides that it should have nice spot where you can place the mortar. It should also have a building where the players spawn in so they don't spawn in the bullets.
Supplies should also be important. This is where the IED ambushes come in handy. Because these supplies can be either brought by vehicles or helicopters. So on some maps you need bases with space for helicopters to land.
Insurgents, when they attack, will always outnumber the BLUFOR. However, BLUFOR have what is called "combat multipliers". This doesn't just extend to artillery, mortars, and air support. If you've ever read the book "War" which is where the documentary "restrepo" comes from, the writer states that a platoon never left the FOB without enough firepower to repel an enemy 3 times their size.
I'm just very confused as to how this game mode would work. It seems to me to be a "king of the hill" type game mode. Although I think the Taliban should be allowed to attack at times, for the most part, the BLUFOR are the aggressors in this war. They seek out IED material sites, caches, informants, etc. The Taliban do attack FOBs every once in a while but it's not like this doesn't happen in the current insurgency mode. I've been part of taliban attacks on BLUFOR fobs and they're fun. The only problem is alot of times FOBs are not defended in any organized fashion. Most BLUFOR are out looking for caches and the FOB overrun rule prevents the BLUFOR from establishing FOBs in close enough areas to make a difference.
Leave the insurgency mode we have now and simply improve it. Giving insentives for fobs to be defended would maybe work.
All the objectives should already have some defences such as hescos and small pillboxes. The fact that the BLUFOR still won't defend is their fault. And if you have read it carefully the cap zone extends everytime so the BLUFOR also has to attack Taliban forces in their area. You just missed some parts, mate.
Any developer seeing a future is this kind of game mode? I would also like to hear opinions from the community if they are interested in this kind of game modes.
People are overcomplicating this mode because they don't understand how the the concept of clear secure build/control works. That strategy, apart from being demonstrated to be ineffective, is a strategy. Each of the different components is an individual line of operation and the three will generally not occur at the same time in the same place and will never occur using the same soldiers at the same time. The concept is that clearing enemy forces is a prerequisite for securing the population which is a prerequisite for establishing governmental control and normalcy. The earlier phases are not meant to stop when the later ones start, but there's never been enough soldiers to really execute all three lines of operation properly and concurrently. The time frame for each phase is measured in years, not the three hours of a PR round.
I agree there needs to be more done to incentivise aggressive insurgent play, because in many AOs at many times this has been the norm, not cordon and strike operations like insurgency exclusively shows at the moment.
The simplest way to do that is just to make Counter-Attack layers on current insurgency maps with very low ticket numbers for bluefor, and flags centred on fob like structures. Alternatively modifying CnC mode to allow fobs closer would achieve a similar effect while allowing more dynamic, but less focused play.
I'm interested in this idea. Sounds like a mix of ins and c&c. My two cents revolve around the spawning. I think to promote teamwork, there should be two or three "bases" capture able at a time. This creates a clear front line and let's blufor worry about defense and clearing out. Next, will the Taliban have access to the spawn "bases" like blufor or is it locked? Maybe a limited time range so as to be a rally fob mix ad time to put a hideout.
A catk based mode would favour the strengths of the mod more. It would produce a better gameplay experience. Most people probably don't even remember what catk is though. It really died out when they removed Zatar Wetlands, then it got phased out.
So basically blue get 3 or so flags to defend 1 at a time that they can't recap until the last 30-60 minutes of the round and a low ticket count. The flags are all centred on things like patrol base statics. They defend with low tickets for most of the round, then at the end get heavy assets and tickets to retake the flags with
Ins would need a ticket count as well, but very high. Catk produced some of the most epic rounds in PR because it forced shifts in tactics and co-ordination throughout the round. It was a great mode that fell out of favour an is the best vehicle to reimagine ins like the op suggests.
I like your idea, Pronk. It's a nice change from regular insurgency and it's original and sounds workable enough as well. Good job! I doubt we'll see any major changes like this implemented soon, but one can only hope.
I hope that a gamemode such as this or VIP comes into existence it will really help boost on PRs aging image dramatically and would be very fun to play.
The things I am afraid of with this game mode is that it will be implemented in a way I did not suggest and that the maps don't suit this game mode or the game mode doesn't suits the map. I think it would be hard to play this game mode on Al Basrah if the map has no changes at all. New maps are in my opinion the best way to go. Like Helmand maps that feature multiple patrol bases. I will think about the overrunning things. Maybe I will post something tonight.
Coalition / BLUFOR are the same
Taliban / Insurgents are the same
Objective for the Insurgents
Attack the BLUFOR Patrol Bases marked on the map and make sure the coalition forces can't extend their safety zone. To let the BLUFOR bleed tickets you need to capture 3/4 of all the patrol bases , every base lost will mean that you (in case you coalition forces recaptured the base) or the enemy team will lose 20 tickets.
Objective for the coalition forces
Defend and hold all the patrol bases , repel the enemy attacks. After you have totally capped the patrol base the cap. range will extend by 10 to 50 meters (Max. 3 extentions per flag) and the cap will decrease with 1/2 of the current cap.
Insurgent Assets
Insurgents won't have deployable mortars this to prevent spawn rape on the patrol bases. But they will get an area attack each 15 to 20 minutes which you can compare to 2 mortars shooting all their rounds in a short time period.
They will have suicide vehicles , transport vehicles , supply vehicles and different technicals. For example a .50 cal techy , SPG techy , AA techy (20 mm Bofor or Quad gun) this to counter coalition assets.
Coalition / BLUFOR Assets
In order to support the spread out coalition forces this team will have assets with a lot of firepower. Deployable mortars , Attack helicopters , scout helicopters , jets.
The usual assets are also there so humvees , supply trucks and armored vehicles can also be used if the map suits armored vehicles. Area attacks are not available.
Cap Radius
In this game mode I want to see a "mobile" cap radius. This so it won't become a king of the hill game mode , I want to allow the BLUFOR to do patrols and clear the area of insurgents.
Let's explain how the cap works.
Fase 1:
Cap radius is 20 to 50 meters based on the size of the patrol base. When it is fully capped fase 2 will start.
Fase 2:
The cap radius will be extended by 25 to 50 meters based on the position of the PB and the size of the map. The cap will go from fully capped to 75% capped to give the insurgents a better chance of capturing. Coalition forces can now start patrolling the nearby area.
When it is fully capped by the BLUFOR fase 3 will start , this is also the last fase.
Fase 3:
The cap radius will extend by 50 to 100 meters based on the position of the PBs and the size of the map. The cap will go from fully capped back to 75%. When it is fully capped coalition forces are now tasked to hold , control and secure the area.
Everytime the insurgents totally recapture the objective , the cap radius will decrease by the amount it extended before. So if the insurgents recapture the objective in fase 3 it will go to fase 2 , the cap radius will decrease and the cap will decrease to 75%.
There is no order in which patrol base should be attacked first or last , it is up to the insurgent team which they want to attack.
Tickets
It will work like AAS , tickets will be lost if the objective has been lost. A minor ticket loss when you are pushed one fase back (Let's say 5 to 20 tickets) and a major ticket loss when the objective is lost in fase 1 (20 - 50 tickets).
When 3/4 (so 75% of the coalition bases) are captured the coalition forces will have a slow ticket bleed , when all are lost they will have a fast tickets bleed.
Maybe , we can allow the insurgents to attack the BLUFOR mainbase when insurgents have capped all patrol bases. This to make sure the BLUFOR can have some fun , have a fun firefight.
The insurgents won't have a ticket bleed but they will have a ticket loss (20 - 50 tickets) when they lose a captured patrol base.
Kits
For BLUFOR no kit changes.
For Iraqi Insurgents they will get the Taliban kit system and a medic kit (Medic bag , Skorpion / shotgun , Epipen , Magic Hands and patches).
This is my suggestion / opinion if this is all possible , some maps just need to be reworked some maps are not suited and could be replaced by new ones.
The actual military does use a system similar to this that defines how supportive an area in that province is. Just like if the cap zone has not extend to a certain area that area is to be considered hostile. The military will classify certain zones in a province as either supportive of the coaltion, neutral, or hostile. There are also further classifications such as neutral leaning supportive of the insurgency or neutral leaning coalition.
We could use this for the new insurgency game mode. The BLUEFORE main base is in a section of blue on the map that is fully supportive of the coaltion/Afghan government. The Taliban base is in a section which is fully hostile to coaltion forces. These fully hostile zones are like fortresses. When they become fully red all kinds of goodies pop up in that zone. Anti-air. SPGs. Defenses everywhere. This is to replicate areas of Afghanistan that are hotbeds of insurgent activities where even the U.S. military decided to either leave (korengal valley) or have issued an no-go zone to their troops (tangi valley). From there they both begin their attempts to influence the population via AAS style cap zones set in villages. If an American outpost is set in that village the insurgents will attempt to overrun it. If an insurgent hideout is built in that area the Americans will attack. After a FOB has been built and the area cleared then those new phases you spoke of could start happening until that FOB/Hideout has full control of it's maximum amount of territory and that place becomes hostile to the other side. Once it becomes fully hostile this leads to the ticket loss for the other team.
I think this will not only encourage fighting in select areas but also the entire team could be fighting over one village that is the key to the map. It also leads to insurgents decided to attack a far out outpost guarded by maybe 3 Coaltion forces in order to turn that zone from hostile to neutral, at least, to stop the ticket bleed.
However, I would like to see the FOB/Hideout overrun rule scaled back. Nothing is more annoying than being involved in a huge firefight over a FOB that's being overrun, dying, and realizing you can't spawn back into the fight because the other side outnumbers your side.
Well that overrun thing is something with two sides.
It is not fun to spawn all the way in the main base when you are in a battle. But it makes (or at least should) make people think more , I gives their life more "worth" so they won't do stupid things because they know that when they die they need to spawn in main.
You can prevent stupid BLUFOR suicide rushes against the enemy by using the current FOB system in this game mode. It is also necessary for when the insurgents push them back into fase 1 , because otherwise it becomes more of a spawn camp. We should "punish" the BLUFOR when they are losing and the same for the insurgents when the BLUFOR have surrounded them.
And about outnumbering , isn't that why you want to kill as many folks as possible , to 1: win the battle and 2: it makes it easier to win. Once a military strategist said something like you need a 2 to 1 balance to defeat a static defense. So with 2 attackers against 1 defender. And we should also not forget that the coalition forces are still merely overstretched in Afghanistan and that their firepower compensates this. So my conclusion: keep it as it is , or it will become BLUFOR Heaven 2.0 (current Insurgency is 1.0)
I would like to see what the Devs think about this , and what is possible and what not.
Maybe if is made a code or servers are balanced in a way that about 65% of the players in the server are switched to INS Team, so this would compensate the heavy assets that BLUFOR would get.
Sangin can be a nice map for it, have the Airbase, have a lot of space, will only need to place the CPs.
